High profile tyres, soft suspension
Discussion
I hugely prefer driving my 205 GTI rather than my diesel honda accord on the roads around here (west coast of scotland), and that's almost entirely due to the way the 205 rides over the potholes and ruts round here. Honda - 225/45/17, Pug - 185/60/14. The Honda crashes and bangs into them while the 205 seems to bounce more over them. Mind you it's also nice driving a wee car properly as it was designed to be driven.
LeoSayer said:
It's about looks and nothing else.
what is mildly amusing is that some people buy big 'off-roaders' and have them fitted with wheels and tyres of such low profile that would be ridiculous on a racing car. The result being a car that would be suited to driving on very rough surfaces being rendered incapable of driving onto a kerb outside a prep school without damagint the rims/tyres.Sam_68 said:
The sad thing is that even Caterham - who you would have thought would deliver what is necessary for the best driving experience and to hell with looks - readily admit that they fit wheels and tyres that are bigger than is optimum for their cars, simply because that's what their customers expect to see.
The customer knows best and in a world of people with little technical knowledge, that 'best' isn't the best.Even with Eibach lowering springs, my Mondeo on it's 205-55/16 shod steel wheels is comfortable, and speed bumps can be blown over at 30mph no problems. Even some of the huge potholes are barely felt.
It's more comfortable than the OH's i30 Comfort on it's 185-65/15 tyres, which is anything but comfortable. It's really quite choppy and bumpy.
It's more comfortable than the OH's i30 Comfort on it's 185-65/15 tyres, which is anything but comfortable. It's really quite choppy and bumpy.
HellDiver said:
Even with Eibach lowering springs, my Mondeo on it's 205-55/16 shod steel wheels is comfortable, and speed bumps can be blown over at 30mph no problems. Even some of the huge potholes are barely felt.
It's more comfortable than the OH's i30 Comfort on it's 185-65/15 tyres, which is anything but comfortable. It's really quite choppy and bumpy.
I'd imagine that's at least partly a result of the Mondeo having a significantly longer wheelbase. It's more comfortable than the OH's i30 Comfort on it's 185-65/15 tyres, which is anything but comfortable. It's really quite choppy and bumpy.
Two of the best (though it's subjective) handling front wheel drive cars ever made are the Peugeot 306 GTI-6 and the Integra Type R. Neither have much in common with each other except their size, weight and they both run 195/55/15 tyres. This can't be coincidence.
I think the big problem is that people think that grip = handling, which as we all know is completely false.
I think the big problem is that people think that grip = handling, which as we all know is completely false.
projectgt said:
Anyone else gone from enjoying, stiffly sprung cars with little ground clearance and low profile tyres?
I have just restored a completely standard Renault 5 GT Turbo which has relatively soft suspension and high profile tyres compared to modern cars, I must say it does make traveling across our third world roads more manageable than in my modern everyday Audi. I am not old by any means but such is the deterioration of the roads everywhere (south bucks/berks) driving a modern performance car is just not enjoyable with these conditions...and don't start me on tax on fuel.
A friend today announced that he is to move to a far less sporty new car for this very reason.
I love the idea of an 997 GT3 RS on a track day but not on our roads.
Is it not more that fact that Audi are famous and renown for appalling suspension and ride quality?I have just restored a completely standard Renault 5 GT Turbo which has relatively soft suspension and high profile tyres compared to modern cars, I must say it does make traveling across our third world roads more manageable than in my modern everyday Audi. I am not old by any means but such is the deterioration of the roads everywhere (south bucks/berks) driving a modern performance car is just not enjoyable with these conditions...and don't start me on tax on fuel.
A friend today announced that he is to move to a far less sporty new car for this very reason.
I love the idea of an 997 GT3 RS on a track day but not on our roads.
I read a group test the other month with the Audi A8 in. Testers comments where "do they not known what suspension compliance is?"
Has the penny started to drop regarding stupidly low profile tyres? I really hope so, even Jeremy Clarkson seems to have noticed how unsuited to our roads these tyres are. I have tried 15 17 18 and 19" rims on my 328, the 15" set were by far the best. Turn in was a little less sharp but the steering wheel did not jar out of my hands on minor imperfections,ultimate grip was less but breakaway was more predictable,ride however was in a different league, no crashing and jarring, minimal tramlining, more pleasant altogether. If anyone wants a set of 19" rims let me know,I won't be using them again.
After driving and owning a series of performance and M specced BMWs, I've just gone to a standard 320d on 16s with fat profile tyres, and it's a revelation for an everyday car 
You lose a tiny bit of turn-in precision, but the ride quality has been massively improved, and it still handles nicely (in fact it's more progressive!). The smaller tyres also reduce noise on the motorway noticeably. In a car with really stiff suspension, the stiff sidewalls work much better, and the new M3 makes them work well with its variable suspension setup, but a typical M spec 335i? No thanks
You lose a tiny bit of turn-in precision, but the ride quality has been massively improved, and it still handles nicely (in fact it's more progressive!). The smaller tyres also reduce noise on the motorway noticeably. In a car with really stiff suspension, the stiff sidewalls work much better, and the new M3 makes them work well with its variable suspension setup, but a typical M spec 335i? No thanks RobM77 said:
The smaller tyres also reduce noise on the motorway noticeably. )
You'll also notice the fact that they'll cost less to replace when the time comes as well. I'll be sticking Premium Contact 2's on a set of steelies next week, 300 sheets all in (that's for 5) instead of 500 for elastic bands (that's for 4)Sam_68 said:
The sad thing is that even Caterham - who you would have thought would deliver what is necessary for the best driving experience and to hell with looks - readily admit that they fit wheels and tyres that are bigger than is optimum for their cars, simply because that's what their customers expect to see.
Agreed, I drove a Caterham 7 Roadsport with 15" wheels, then a Superlight with the optional 13" wheels and it was night and day different. Needless to say my Seven has 13" wheels on and they're staying!HellDiver said:
Even with Eibach lowering springs, my Mondeo on it's 205-55/16 shod steel wheels is comfortable, and speed bumps can be blown over at 30mph no problems. Even some of the huge potholes are barely felt.
It's more comfortable than the OH's i30 Comfort on it's 185-65/15 tyres, which is anything but comfortable. It's really quite choppy and bumpy.
Agreed, ride quality is not simply a case of small wheel, big sidewall = good, big wheel, small sidewall = bad. I used to have a Mk2 Nissan Almera on 15" steel wheel with big sidewalls, yet the ride quality was choppy and unsettling. I've also driven a Boxster on optional 19" turbo style wheels, with 35 profile tyres and the ride quality and damping was excellent!It's more comfortable than the OH's i30 Comfort on it's 185-65/15 tyres, which is anything but comfortable. It's really quite choppy and bumpy.
The last properly relaxing car I drove was a BMW e28 525e auto! Torquey engine, slush box and 14" wheels with high profile tyres! Very different to my e36 in 18's and Mrs B's 106 GTi with rock hard grp N Bilsteins! Next car will be an SE spec BMW without big wheels!
On the handling front I spent a lot of money on making my 106 XSi rock hard in the aim of better handling. Then realised my 205 1.6 GTi (100% standard) was much easier to drive quicker on the road.
On the handling front I spent a lot of money on making my 106 XSi rock hard in the aim of better handling. Then realised my 205 1.6 GTi (100% standard) was much easier to drive quicker on the road.
unpc said:
Are all Audis as bad as the ones I've been in? even the modestly shod A6 I last went in rode like someone stole the springs. I agree this tyre business has gone too far although the 20's on my XK are staying. At least some companies can still make a car ride well.
Audis in my experience are particularly bad in any trim. Some BMWs I've been are no better. With my S-Type Jaguar being a sport it was on 18" & slightly lower stiffer suspension & everyone who rode in it remarked on well it rode. My wife & I almost rejected it because it didn't ride as well as our previous S-Type SE! That was on 16", the handling difference was negligible & in some ways better on 16" because it was more predictable. If you have the budget (£3k+) it does not have to be one way or the other, a set of decent triple adjustable monotube coilovers from AST or similar can work on track and the road.
I run 4 times the spring rate on my BMW E46 and in most situations it rides better than standard when turned to soft.
I run 4 times the spring rate on my BMW E46 and in most situations it rides better than standard when turned to soft.
Gimme ride comfort everytime. You appreciate that every minute you drive whereas you might just use the extra 0.01g of cornering grip once or twice a year.
I swapped my XJ8 from 17" rims and 50 profile tyres to 16" and 60 profile tyres just weeks after I bought it. It's almost - but not quite - as comfortable as my squashy suspended and laughably skinny tyred old Renault van now...
I swapped my XJ8 from 17" rims and 50 profile tyres to 16" and 60 profile tyres just weeks after I bought it. It's almost - but not quite - as comfortable as my squashy suspended and laughably skinny tyred old Renault van now...
unpc said:
Are all Audis as bad as the ones I've been in? even the modestly shod A6 I last went in rode like someone stole the springs. I agree this tyre business has gone too far although the 20's on my XK are staying. At least some companies can still make a car ride well.
According to someone in Top Gear magazine (it might have been Clarkson), Audi don't give S-line spec cars to journalists if they can avoid it because all they talk about is how hard the ride is. Doesn't stop people buying them though.
m444ttb said:
On the handling front I spent a lot of money on making my 106 XSi rock hard in the aim of better handling. Then realised my 205 1.6 GTi (100% standard) was much easier to drive quicker on the road.
Agree entirely. I often wish my 106 had standard suspension rather than being lowered with 'uprated' dampers. My old 205 and 106 diesels would soak up any bump you threw them at at any speed. The lowered Rallye is fantastic on tracks and smooth roads but on a choppy b road it's much more frantic and crashes horribly through potholes, meaning in some cases it's slower than the diesels that had half the power.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff