RE: Government Decision On Lotus Money Due Soon
Discussion
thewheelman said:
This is something the government should help fund, Lotus needs to stay here. Sorry if my argument is weak, & my knowledge of politics isn't good. But letting another brand go is not good news.
+1Stop spending millions a day in Lybia for a war we didn't ask for and use it on our on country ffs.
Frimley111R said:
WTF? Aston Martin, Range Rover, Rolls Royce, Bentley are made here and how often to do you see people bleating about their build these days? Let alone Honda, Toyota, Nissan. Rover is nothing like Lotus, only an idiot would compare them. I am sure people would love to know that their £120,000 Esprit was made in Tiawan, NOT.
yes you are right, there is so much automotive expertise in the UK, ok sometimes the parent company are not British but they still use our engineers etc. It is shame that people don't see the positive side of what we have, don't we build more cars now than we did when there were 150,000 employed by BL? Interestingly when I was in the USA last year I read a Road and Track article slatting the 'cartoonish' ponycars and saying how the only people who liked the Challenger were 80s rockers listening to Whitesnake...so negativity comes as standard everywhere sadly. P9UNK said:
When I was in the USA last year I read a Road and Track article saying the only people who liked the Challenger were 80s rockers listening to Whitesnake...so negativity comes as standard everywhere sadly.
One thing's for sure, you'll see Whitesnake in UK (2011 summer tour) one hell of a lot sooner than some design mock-up goes into production!The Crack Fox said:
Competitive ? This is madness. You mean costs, right ? The UK will NEVER be the cheapest place to make stuff, why should the Government pay more because Asia can do it for less ? Lotus should be competing on product, not price.
Sorry but who is talking about moving manufacturing to Asia? This is economical versus other European countries like Finland and Austria, not Asia.Well, I hope that the Govt at least carries out a proper, in-depth viability study on the Lotus future plans as presented by Mr Bahar. If they do that and then lend the money, then it will at least reassure us that the plans are well-thought out and feasible. From what I've heard, the research they're based on is flawed at every level.
Lotus' future is really imporatnt, but I think there are dangers greater than whether they get 30 mill.
Lotus' future is really imporatnt, but I think there are dangers greater than whether they get 30 mill.
How can Finland or Austria build cars any cheaper or better than UK?
It would not be the first time EU grants / subsidies (which UK pays heavily into) attracts UK businesses out of UK!!
On a side each Tomehawk missile retails at about £900k (I read the UK launched 16 in one night against Mr Gadafi)!!
Lets be honest a large % of our tax gets wasted, some might as well go to our motoring industry!!
It would not be the first time EU grants / subsidies (which UK pays heavily into) attracts UK businesses out of UK!!
On a side each Tomehawk missile retails at about £900k (I read the UK launched 16 in one night against Mr Gadafi)!!
Lets be honest a large % of our tax gets wasted, some might as well go to our motoring industry!!
The Crack Fox said:
So, it's a bribe then. Don't get me wrong, I love Lotus, but if a business can't fund itself then it's a dead business.
No, Lotus will quite rightly be planning structures etc to support their business. One of these appear to be moving producion to another country to save money. How can you say
from that they can't fund it themselves? If the state makes the assessment that the income generated from a grant exceeds the grant then they'll quite rightly offer it and make the UK as attractive as another country. If so everyone wins over here.
You wouldn't put up with the slave labour conditions that threads through the Chinese (and other) production culture that enable such cheap prices. Quite rightly too. If we we only accept first-world standards of treatment, payment and conditons for our workforce, then we need to be innovative with incentives for business to do business and production here.
As I say, if the income exceeds the grant the everyone wins.
Ex Boy Racer said:
Well, I hope that the Govt at least carries out a proper, in-depth viability study on the Lotus future plans as presented by Mr Bahar. If they do that and then lend the money, then it will at least reassure us that the plans are well-thought out and feasible. From what I've heard, the research they're based on is flawed at every level.
Lotus' future is really imporatnt, but I think there are dangers greater than whether they get 30 mill.
Do you think that a government-directed study would shed any light on the genuine feasibility of Lotus's game plan? I think I'm a bit more sceptical than you - by about a trillion percent. Lotus' future is really imporatnt, but I think there are dangers greater than whether they get 30 mill.
Rather than picking winners and losers, which even deeply-experienced investors are not that good at doing, I'd rather see them lend the same amount to an automotive engineering school to build new facilities.
What a sad request, usually a sign of either financially unhealthy company or unhealthy regulations that allow companies to get money from the taxpayer.
We had the banking industry doing that for the few last years. Now the Louts...
I wonder when will they indroduce another socialist idea such as "an Elise for every taxpayer", that would be truly a volkswagen...
We had the banking industry doing that for the few last years. Now the Louts...
I wonder when will they indroduce another socialist idea such as "an Elise for every taxpayer", that would be truly a volkswagen...
True reason for production in by Magna in Austria is quality. Mr Bahar pointed out that GRP bodies are not the quality htat Lotus is aiming for. 'Panel gaps that you can throw the car keys through' is his quote on the Evora.
Like it or not the production will move out of England. That's not new either. Elise bodies are made in France in an ex Renault factory.
What would you do if someone knocks on your door asking for 30 Pounds and you know that he's going to spent 20 of those immediately not on hiring people or producing something but playing a game called formula one? I would be peed off.
Like it or not the production will move out of England. That's not new either. Elise bodies are made in France in an ex Renault factory.
What would you do if someone knocks on your door asking for 30 Pounds and you know that he's going to spent 20 of those immediately not on hiring people or producing something but playing a game called formula one? I would be peed off.
BSC said:
What would you do if someone knocks on your door asking for 30 Pounds and you know that he's going to spent 20 of those immediately not on hiring people or producing something but playing a game called formula one? I would be peed off.
Your maths is wrong. They want £27m Proton have already put £200m in and are planning a further £770 (£400m of which is already secured). That's a slightly better ratio.
chris7676 said:
What a sad request, usually a sign of either financially unhealthy company or unhealthy regulations that allow companies to get money from the taxpayer.
We had the banking industry doing that for the few last years. Now the Louts...
I wonder when will they indroduce another socialist idea such as "an Elise for every taxpayer", that would be truly a volkswagen...
I could find lots of examples of why this point of view is totally wrong but these two should do:We had the banking industry doing that for the few last years. Now the Louts...
I wonder when will they indroduce another socialist idea such as "an Elise for every taxpayer", that would be truly a volkswagen...
Rolls-Royce: Government wakes up to manufacturing after 'decades of aversion'
Government Stump up £25million for Nuclear Advanced Manufacturing Centre
Rolls-Royce is not financially unhealthy it is if anything the government's example of what more British companies should be like.
Rolls-Royce could in fact fund these facilities from it's own cash flow. However it could also base these facilities outside the UK where it would also receive assistance from local governments. In fact that money would be much better spent buying some foreign companies for a change (it has been used for just that).
No country comes close to operating a true free market and no country should aspire to. Government assistance has a part to play in industry, supporting research, early stage investment and large growth strategies (like this one). Every industry receives government help be it directly or indirectly from benefiting from the laws, education, freedom of movement or from corruption.
This isn't about supporting failing companies like Rover or arbitrarily "picking winners" (which in the bad old days was really another word for supporting the best looser). If Lotus's growth strategy is valid and it cannot get commercial loans I see no issue with regional development funds giving them a loan. Ultimately even industries that claim not to receive any "subsidies" or government help like the service or financial sector benefit because in the long term these sectors follow the money in the real economy. When we cease to produce anything of value the financial sector will head off to where the money is being made....
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