RE: Government Decision On Lotus Money Due Soon
Discussion
The Wookie said:
Many of the far eastern products that have created the reputation of high quality are constructed here in the UK, and not just cars for UK consumption either, eta Nissan, Toyota and Honda all produce cars in the UK.
Where a car is built makes no difference to the quality of the vehicle, production line standards and management do.
you are absolutely right, the sad thing being that when Honda, Nissan etc build a car here it is seen as a Japanese car but if Lotus build a car abroad many dower mongers will say it is not a Lotus anymore. I don't like the idea but it is business and as long as the car is developed by Lotus it is a Lotus. The fact that people say that Lotus is already foreign is typical, yes the parent company is but the guys at Hethel are Lotus through and through (apart from some of the recent personel acqusitions). Possibly the government feels the business plan is a little uncertain given the record of Lotus selling in volume.Where a car is built makes no difference to the quality of the vehicle, production line standards and management do.
Edited by The Wookie on Friday 25th March 10:17
GKP said:
It won't cost £1bn to develop the new cars. There's two new models, but each will wear different clothes to become the five cars.
That's what Lotus have been trying to raise, though, isn't it? Investors would frown upon unnecessary capitalization because it would dilute their return, so I'm guessing they claim they need that much to realize their plans.They really are a bunch of DICKS arent they!!!!!! I 
hate this stupid petty goverment!!
A proper thoroughbred manufacturer English (sort of) brand that fk it lets not support hey.....they may end up like TVR...but then the goverment couldnt give two sts bout them too either!!!
Makes me so fking angry!!!!!!!!!!
Screw Norfolk hey, who gives a toss about that lot. We may have silly accents but we are real people who care for our county! Pity these bunch of knobs couldnt! If they ask for a tax increase from myself....well ya can get STUFFED!!!!!
Justyn
hate this stupid petty goverment!!A proper thoroughbred manufacturer English (sort of) brand that f
k it lets not support hey.....they may end up like TVR...but then the goverment couldnt give two sts bout them too either!!!Makes me so f
king angry!!!!!!!!!! Screw Norfolk hey, who gives a toss about that lot. We may have silly accents but we are real people who care for our county! Pity these bunch of knobs couldnt! If they ask for a tax increase from myself....well ya can get STUFFED!!!!!
Justyn
Edited by extremekiter on Tuesday 12th April 21:11
Edited by extremekiter on Tuesday 12th April 21:12
The Crack Fox said:
As much as I love Lotus, I am sick of the Government being bribed by Proton to keep production here, if they want to up sticks and move, fine, but PLEASE don't chuck any taxpayers money at the business. If it can't/won't fund itself then tough. Businesses should sink or swim on their own, we don't have enough money in the (tax) pot for this nonsense.
/tough love.
I think economic growth should be a primary concern when it comes to the tax pot, or related nonsense./tough love.
All we have now (competitively speaking) is R&D - we need crossover companies to keep both ends in Britain, else we won't have an economy at all.
Wills2 said:
It will cost Lotus close to a Billion (if not more) to develop and produce the cars they revealed earlier.
Well that's if they intend them to be compariable to Ferrari/Porsche and they haven't fooled themselves into thinking people will spend 100k on a car with a Toyota engine and gearbox.
So why are they arsing around for £30 million? Someone explain it to me...
Because you have to start somewhere? Because that £30m shows others that the government is supportive (recall what the refusal of £50m did for BMW's faith in the UK), because it is a competitive market out there with countries competing to attract skilled jobs, because £30m is what it might cost extra to stay in the UK due to the government's extra taxes and the uncertainty of sterling's value....?Well that's if they intend them to be compariable to Ferrari/Porsche and they haven't fooled themselves into thinking people will spend 100k on a car with a Toyota engine and gearbox.
So why are they arsing around for £30 million? Someone explain it to me...
I have no problem with Lotus asking!
grahamw48 said:
Why are we proposing to give money to a Malaysian company ?
Give it to Noble or Ginetta.
If the employees of Lotus then have to relocate...so be it.
Ginetta asked last year for just a piddly £1.7m to fund its G50EV (electric) but the UK government turned them down.Give it to Noble or Ginetta.
If the employees of Lotus then have to relocate...so be it.
The car (built and used) is driven by Ginetta's chairman Lawrence Tomlinson - he said at the time:
'We have the running prototype and all the components sorted, but it will cost us too much to develop ourselves.
We could easily turn this into a usable everyday vehicle, not just a sports car prototype. We can extend the range to 250 miles.'
There you have it. Lotus had no chance.
[quote=extremekiter]They really are a bunch of DICKS arent they!!!!!! I hate this stupid petty goverment!!
A proper thoroughbred manufacturer English (sort of) brand that fk it lets not support hey.....they may end up like TVR...but then the goverment couldnt give two sts bout them too either!!!
Makes me so fking angry!!!!!!!!!!
Screw Norfolk hey, who gives a toss about that lot. We may have silly accents but we are real people who care for our county! Pity these bunch of knobs couldnt! If they ask for a tax increase from myself....well ya can get STUFFED!!!!!
Justyn
I fear that the difference is about breadth of market appeal, how realistic the business plan is, and historical demonstration of ability to execute against and deliver against the business plan.
IMHO - against that criteria, I would rather give MY money to JLR, and Bentley than Lotus (as I think there us a good chnce i could see a return!!
hate this stupid petty goverment!!A proper thoroughbred manufacturer English (sort of) brand that f
k it lets not support hey.....they may end up like TVR...but then the goverment couldnt give two sts bout them too either!!!Makes me so f
king angry!!!!!!!!!! Screw Norfolk hey, who gives a toss about that lot. We may have silly accents but we are real people who care for our county! Pity these bunch of knobs couldnt! If they ask for a tax increase from myself....well ya can get STUFFED!!!!!
Justyn
I fear that the difference is about breadth of market appeal, how realistic the business plan is, and historical demonstration of ability to execute against and deliver against the business plan.
IMHO - against that criteria, I would rather give MY money to JLR, and Bentley than Lotus (as I think there us a good chnce i could see a return!!
I have spent a lot of time looking into Regional Growth Fund Grants and I helped to write one of the successful bids.
I have read that as many as 75% of the RGF Round 1 applications failed because of "State Aid" Legislation. This is the EU rules about how much money the Governments in Europe is allowed give to private companies. For example, a large company can only be given a maximum of 15% of their Capital Expenditure. So the company will need to spend around £7m on equipment/machines before the Government can give them a £1m RGF grant.
I noticed several people on this thread saying “well, it should be match funded pound-for-pound” or “Lotus should spend £2 for every £1 of grant given”. If a bid was submitted around these kinds of proposals, it would have bee rejected straight away as they are not consistent with State Aid.
Also, projects for large companies have to go ahead within the “Assisted areas map”, which typically includes the most deprived areas of the UK such as the North East, North West and South Wales, etc. Large companies do not need any financial encouragement to invest in the South East of England for example.
Someone said that Nissan have been awarded £20m? I can’t confirm this as it wasn’t my project, but this would mean Nissan will need to spend at least £133m and create hundreds of jobs before that can draw down the £20m.
The purpose of this post is not to comment on whether grants are good or bad – I’m just giving you some insight as to why some bids failed and how much companies need to spend before they can claim any grant money at all.
Cool story bro?
I have read that as many as 75% of the RGF Round 1 applications failed because of "State Aid" Legislation. This is the EU rules about how much money the Governments in Europe is allowed give to private companies. For example, a large company can only be given a maximum of 15% of their Capital Expenditure. So the company will need to spend around £7m on equipment/machines before the Government can give them a £1m RGF grant.
I noticed several people on this thread saying “well, it should be match funded pound-for-pound” or “Lotus should spend £2 for every £1 of grant given”. If a bid was submitted around these kinds of proposals, it would have bee rejected straight away as they are not consistent with State Aid.
Also, projects for large companies have to go ahead within the “Assisted areas map”, which typically includes the most deprived areas of the UK such as the North East, North West and South Wales, etc. Large companies do not need any financial encouragement to invest in the South East of England for example.
Someone said that Nissan have been awarded £20m? I can’t confirm this as it wasn’t my project, but this would mean Nissan will need to spend at least £133m and create hundreds of jobs before that can draw down the £20m.
The purpose of this post is not to comment on whether grants are good or bad – I’m just giving you some insight as to why some bids failed and how much companies need to spend before they can claim any grant money at all.
Cool story bro?
).Personally I don't see why Lotus got that ambitious without having secure funding first. Don't get me wrong, I want to see them do well, but surely they should have the cash in the bank before making all these new ambitions? McLaren managed to start up their own road car division without a penny of government cash; I know they've made money doing other things but it's better to have done that than be relying on money which looks like it'll never come to secure your business.
Lotus Cars Ltd, a unit of Malaysia's Proton Holdings Bhd, will sign a syndicated financing deal with six lenders on April 15, according to a media invitation.
They are CIMB Group Holdings Bhd, Malayan Banking Bhd, Oversea-Chinese Banking Corp, EON Capital Bhd, Exim Bank and Affin Holdings Bhd, according to the e-mailed invitation received today. - Bloomberg
They are CIMB Group Holdings Bhd, Malayan Banking Bhd, Oversea-Chinese Banking Corp, EON Capital Bhd, Exim Bank and Affin Holdings Bhd, according to the e-mailed invitation received today. - Bloomberg
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