Speed limiting my vans?
Discussion
I don't have an issue with trackers, in fact one is fitted to my wheels.
Speed limiters = hate.
I'd go for driver training, couple safety training and economy. Then make an incentive.
Presumably you have the records of each person's current average.
Small individual prize for everyone each quarter if the whole fleet manages to improve by x% over their previous figures. Give them monthly updates so they can police the slackers and piss takers. When x% becomes too easy, like after six months, then give the target a nudge.
If the budget will stand it a decent prize for person with biggest individual improvement over the whole year. Admittedly in the first year there is a risk that the current biggest piss taker will win, but is that such a bad thing? The others will then think "If he can do it then I can beat that."
Recommend these guys for fleet training http://www.roadskills.biz/
Will tailor training to your needs.
No connection
Speed limiters = hate.
I'd go for driver training, couple safety training and economy. Then make an incentive.
Presumably you have the records of each person's current average.
Small individual prize for everyone each quarter if the whole fleet manages to improve by x% over their previous figures. Give them monthly updates so they can police the slackers and piss takers. When x% becomes too easy, like after six months, then give the target a nudge.
If the budget will stand it a decent prize for person with biggest individual improvement over the whole year. Admittedly in the first year there is a risk that the current biggest piss taker will win, but is that such a bad thing? The others will then think "If he can do it then I can beat that."
Recommend these guys for fleet training http://www.roadskills.biz/
Will tailor training to your needs.
No connection
TomJS said:
FWIW the two PH'ers who fired employees for speeding and undoing a tracking plug are living very dangerously. Unless those employees have prior disciplinary warnings for similar offences, you are left wide open to unfair dismissal claims resulting in the loss of thousands of pounds for your business. You'd be less smug if that occurred I'd wager.
How is it unfair dismissal? Deliberately disabling a security device on a van you are responsible for is fairly serious stuff.I used to work for a company that ment i was driving 50k a year. the company had 10 vans so 50k times 10 is alot of miles a year excluding the bosses in their company cars. So they decided to send us on a training course where we was taught about economical driving. A day course for 10 guys is not cheap and what happened soon as the course was done? Everyone pretty much carried on driving as they were "not my diesel" was the common phrase. Some vans were trackered as on long term lease but others were on short term hire so was no option to limit of track them. A bonus shared between everyone depending on the fuel saved may be the way to go
Limit them to 72-75mph.
I cannot understand the arguement about pissing off the staff.
They are paid to do a job, company rules are company rules.
And if any employee cannot understand the need for the company to cut fuel costs in light of the constant fuel price increases, they really must be numpties
I cannot understand the arguement about pissing off the staff.
They are paid to do a job, company rules are company rules.
And if any employee cannot understand the need for the company to cut fuel costs in light of the constant fuel price increases, they really must be numpties
If you go down the driver training route, we always recommend these guys as they are recommended by some of our insurers www.peakperformance.net
EDLT said:
How is it unfair dismissal? Deliberately disabling a security device on a van you are responsible for is fairly serious stuff.
It's hardly a security device. As an employer, you'd have to convince an employment tribunal that the employees actions amounted to gross misconduct, and that a lesser punishment was inappropriate. I certainly can't see speeding - absent dangerous driving or an accident - as meeting that requirement. Picking up a patio heater using a company vehicle is a bit more debatable as there may be a (minor) theft element. But again, convincing a tribunal that an employee should be immediately sacked not given any warning is a significant hurdle.
In addition, the investigation itself must meet the requiremnts of the 2004 legislation or else is automatically unfair. This is a minefield.
Added to this whole burden on the employer is the tribunal process itself. The average cost of defending a claim is now £9000, and 10 days of business time. The process itself isn't much loved by employers:
"Employers who had been involved in ET proceedings were then asked to comment on their satisfaction with various parts of the procedure. Almost 29% were dissatisfied with the length of time it took a case to be listed for hearing, 23% were not satisfied with the efficiency of the process and the ability to keep the proceedings on the time table set out. Only 28.6% of Respondents were satisfied with the fairness of the Tribunal`s decision....
Employers are using other methods to settle claims or avoid potential claims with 70% of Respondents admitting to signing compromise agreements and over half saying that the amount of agreements entered into had increased over the past 2 years."
TomJS said:
EDLT said:
How is it unfair dismissal? Deliberately disabling a security device on a van you are responsible for is fairly serious stuff.
It's hardly a security device. As an employer, you'd have to convince an employment tribunal that the employees actions amounted to gross misconduct, and that a lesser punishment was inappropriate. I certainly can't see speeding - absent dangerous driving or an accident - as meeting that requirement. Picking up a patio heater using a company vehicle is a bit more debatable as there may be a (minor) theft element. But again, convincing a tribunal that an employee should be immediately sacked not given any warning is a significant hurdle.
In addition, the investigation itself must meet the requiremnts of the 2004 legislation or else is automatically unfair. This is a minefield.
Added to this whole burden on the employer is the tribunal process itself. The average cost of defending a claim is now £9000, and 10 days of business time. The process itself isn't much loved by employers:
"Employers who had been involved in ET proceedings were then asked to comment on their satisfaction with various parts of the procedure. Almost 29% were dissatisfied with the length of time it took a case to be listed for hearing, 23% were not satisfied with the efficiency of the process and the ability to keep the proceedings on the time table set out. Only 28.6% of Respondents were satisfied with the fairness of the Tribunal`s decision....
Employers are using other methods to settle claims or avoid potential claims with 70% of Respondents admitting to signing compromise agreements and over half saying that the amount of agreements entered into had increased over the past 2 years."
With regards to the Tribunal issue; as long as your procedures are clearly documented, and they have been correctly followed there is very little a Tribunal can do. Our disciplinary procedure has been checked and approved by a large firm of lawyers, and we are fully indemnified against legal costs (as long as we follow the procedures).
Edited by Countdown on Monday 18th April 15:55
The company i work for had their vans trackered up as they were sick of them being used on weekends & for personal use (occasional permissioned use is ok as long as you ask first).
They b
hed & moaned about the trackers, but it suddenly meant that they were getting more done in the day & fuel costs went down.
If they're doing their jobs properly & only using the vehicle for it's purposes then they shouldd'nt be moaning about it!
They b
hed & moaned about the trackers, but it suddenly meant that they were getting more done in the day & fuel costs went down.If they're doing their jobs properly & only using the vehicle for it's purposes then they shouldd'nt be moaning about it!
OP the standard method of limiting a vehicle is by speed. The vehicles ecu is accessed and the new value set which it will apply regardless of what gear you are in.
Recording vehicle data is via Telematics which is piggybacked into the vehicles OBD socket and will record all data the ecu recieves such as speed, aircon on or off, brakes applied, fuel level, current mileage any management/ecu faults logged, idle time etc etc. You can also have custom items added to the system to identify when any extra vehicle based equipment is switched on or doors open etc. The software that you use to monitor the vehicle will also allow you to set certain locations that will text alert you if the vehicle is there such as home addresses when they are supposed to be on a job etc (this prevents someone having to constantly watch to see where the vehicle is) You can also set it to alert you if one of your vehicles is moving out of working hours etc.
Ok downsides, Speed limiters can save fuel but only if the drivers sit in top gear on the motorway instead of say 3rd or 4th just to be a pain. Telematics will be seen as spy in the cab etc. How you sell it to your employees is your buisness.
Costs, Speed limiting is a one off cost whereas telematics has onward running costs etc.
Recording vehicle data is via Telematics which is piggybacked into the vehicles OBD socket and will record all data the ecu recieves such as speed, aircon on or off, brakes applied, fuel level, current mileage any management/ecu faults logged, idle time etc etc. You can also have custom items added to the system to identify when any extra vehicle based equipment is switched on or doors open etc. The software that you use to monitor the vehicle will also allow you to set certain locations that will text alert you if the vehicle is there such as home addresses when they are supposed to be on a job etc (this prevents someone having to constantly watch to see where the vehicle is) You can also set it to alert you if one of your vehicles is moving out of working hours etc.
Ok downsides, Speed limiters can save fuel but only if the drivers sit in top gear on the motorway instead of say 3rd or 4th just to be a pain. Telematics will be seen as spy in the cab etc. How you sell it to your employees is your buisness.
Costs, Speed limiting is a one off cost whereas telematics has onward running costs etc.
jmorgan said:
The limiter is a right royal pain in the butt and if I could legally and without getting the sack circumvent it, I would.
Reminds me of when the company I worked for had a Transit which was governed to 73mph. the guy who kept it was going away down south (England) for the weekend and was taking the van, but didn't fancy sitting at 73 all the way,
so I spoke to my brother 
who was a mechanic and sussed out how to alter the governer (cutting a plastic seal and adjusting a nut). So next day at lunch time we popped the bonnet and got to work.The trip home that afternoon was highly anticipated and with baited breath we joined the motorway, van felt a bit quicker through the gears and was quickly up to 70,
then past it to 73, then on still pulling strongly till it maxed out at 76mph. 
Speed limiters are dangerous and unnecessary on vans. In reality you won't save a great deal of fuel and it's the around town speeding that is more likely to cause problems (image/liability etc).
Treat your staff like adults, set a scheme up for rewarding fuel economy, vehicle condition and safe driving (lack of accidents) and when replacing vehicles get ones with cruise control. Explain to staff that the alternative is limiters and tracking.
If you have to have trackers fitted for security reasons that's fine but do you really need to do it? Invest the money you would spend on trackers in improving your recruitment process so you get the type of staff you really want and need.
If all the above fails then maybe resort to your suggestions but going the whole hog first smacks of an underutilised transport manager who wants to impress up the line rather than doing the common sense thing.
Treat your staff like adults, set a scheme up for rewarding fuel economy, vehicle condition and safe driving (lack of accidents) and when replacing vehicles get ones with cruise control. Explain to staff that the alternative is limiters and tracking.
If you have to have trackers fitted for security reasons that's fine but do you really need to do it? Invest the money you would spend on trackers in improving your recruitment process so you get the type of staff you really want and need.
If all the above fails then maybe resort to your suggestions but going the whole hog first smacks of an underutilised transport manager who wants to impress up the line rather than doing the common sense thing.
Bit of a dull first post but here goes....
We've had vans limited (by the lease co) to 75mph before but they were dangerous on the motorway as you could pull into lane 3 to overtake and the car in lane 2 would speed up a bit and then you'd be stuck. We upped the limiters to 85mph and the problem stopped, as did the speeding tickets. To be fair any more than 85 in a lwb sprinter is a bit much anyway.
We control and track fuel costs with fuel cards. It's easily done and centralises the monthly cost and VAT return onto one invoice so every ones a winner. Mileage recorded with fuel purchase. Most efficient driver every month gets a lieu day.
We also track the vehicles. Got systems fitted for £500 per vehicle for 5 years all in. Great system, saves on the 'how you getting on?' calls to drivers lets them crack on and backs them up if there are any issues with traffic making them late or whatever.
Cost to the business £100 per vehicle annually for the trackers. Efficiency up, stress and cost down. Job done.
We've had vans limited (by the lease co) to 75mph before but they were dangerous on the motorway as you could pull into lane 3 to overtake and the car in lane 2 would speed up a bit and then you'd be stuck. We upped the limiters to 85mph and the problem stopped, as did the speeding tickets. To be fair any more than 85 in a lwb sprinter is a bit much anyway.
We control and track fuel costs with fuel cards. It's easily done and centralises the monthly cost and VAT return onto one invoice so every ones a winner. Mileage recorded with fuel purchase. Most efficient driver every month gets a lieu day.
We also track the vehicles. Got systems fitted for £500 per vehicle for 5 years all in. Great system, saves on the 'how you getting on?' calls to drivers lets them crack on and backs them up if there are any issues with traffic making them late or whatever.
Cost to the business £100 per vehicle annually for the trackers. Efficiency up, stress and cost down. Job done.
Vulgar LS2 said:
I had trackers fitted just over a year ago, the savings are more than fuel you also cut down on any unpaid breaks.
We monitored our staff for 3 months before telling them they were being tracked, it made for a very interesting meeting when confronted with their piss taking at My expense.
Now that would fWe monitored our staff for 3 months before telling them they were being tracked, it made for a very interesting meeting when confronted with their piss taking at My expense.
k me off. BonzoG said:
We sometimes get the odd hire van in with a 68mph limiter fitted - and this particular hire company likes to proudly advertise the fact on the back door.
Every so often one will encounter a dawdler with an inferiority complex on the motorway. You'll overtake them - but at such a small differential that you can't get away. They'll then notice the limited speed signwritten on the back of the van which suddenly wakes them up ("st, it's a motorway, I should be doing 70!" 
) and so they overtake and pull back in front of you. Then they subconsciously slow down again because they're stupid...
It certainly makes you sympathise with truckers stuck on a limiter, and frankly if any of your drivers have a short fuse, don't go down this route!
Our company uses a combination of trackers and regular assessment. The assessment tends to weed out the generally incompetent amongst the fleet, so the company doesn't really feel the need to start dishing out punishments if a tracker shows a driver "saving a bit of time" but doing it safely and sensibly.
Our Combi vans are limited to 70 - it's quite good on empty(ish) motorway as it acts as a kind of 'cruise control'. But it is infuriating when you get the scenario above where people speed up as you pass them!Every so often one will encounter a dawdler with an inferiority complex on the motorway. You'll overtake them - but at such a small differential that you can't get away. They'll then notice the limited speed signwritten on the back of the van which suddenly wakes them up ("s
t, it's a motorway, I should be doing 70!" ) and so they overtake and pull back in front of you. Then they subconsciously slow down again because they're stupid... It certainly makes you sympathise with truckers stuck on a limiter, and frankly if any of your drivers have a short fuse, don't go down this route!
Our company uses a combination of trackers and regular assessment. The assessment tends to weed out the generally incompetent amongst the fleet, so the company doesn't really feel the need to start dishing out punishments if a tracker shows a driver "saving a bit of time" but doing it safely and sensibly.
The 60 reg. transit vans were limited to 56 but now on the 11 reg. vans we get an extra 4mph!!
H100S said:
Not made up my mind on this one yet. The department I run has 7 delivery vans, 2 car derived the rest are all LCV less this 3.5T GVW.
In a effort to reduce mainly reduce fuel costs I am considering speed limiting them. There are other benefits to this for the driver and the company too. Please give me your thoughts on this, specifically what speed?
Not interested in stories of how fast they have seen vans go, we all know white vans are particuarally fast, for the record not all mine are white but they are probably all capable of doing best part of 100mph.
Lastly should I do it via top speed or rev limit?
glue a wooden box, about 2 cm high, under the accelerator :-)In a effort to reduce mainly reduce fuel costs I am considering speed limiting them. There are other benefits to this for the driver and the company too. Please give me your thoughts on this, specifically what speed?
Not interested in stories of how fast they have seen vans go, we all know white vans are particuarally fast, for the record not all mine are white but they are probably all capable of doing best part of 100mph.
Lastly should I do it via top speed or rev limit?
Camaro91 said:
Our Combi vans are limited to 70 - it's quite good on empty(ish) motorway as it acts as a kind of 'cruise control'. But it is infuriating when you get the scenario above where people speed up as you pass them!
The 60 reg. transit vans were limited to 56 but now on the 11 reg. vans we get an extra 4mph!!
Same company as you (N.R., I'm a P.T.O. down south) and yep it is a pain but you get used to it, as you say an effective cruise control. I don't really mind the limiter but the Ctrack tracker/sat nav system is a joke, does yours switch off whenever it wants? Slightly better now with updates.The 60 reg. transit vans were limited to 56 but now on the 11 reg. vans we get an extra 4mph!!
Our tracker systems were fitted due to taxation purposes, the IR wanted proof that the company was monitoring the vehicle usage for any private use (despite the use of logbooks). The limiter was supposedly fitted for fuel savings.
Yes we've had a few issues with the tracker / sat nav, seems to work OK but why is it I can remember my employee number right up to the point I have to use a van!
It can only be a good thing if it's going to end up with the logbook phased out
I did chuckle when I read about staff 'getting to site quicker' because of the sat nav planning the optimum route. I would imagine most of the guys know the local roads better than the sat nav anyway!
(which discipline may I ask?)
It can only be a good thing if it's going to end up with the logbook phased out
I did chuckle when I read about staff 'getting to site quicker' because of the sat nav planning the optimum route. I would imagine most of the guys know the local roads better than the sat nav anyway!
(which discipline may I ask?)
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff