Wheel sizes getting silly?

[Trevelyan]

The biggest issue for me is tyre cost. My current car came with 18" optional factory fit rims rather than the standard 17's. Rubber seems to be costing about 60 quid a corner more...

[heebeegeetee]

havoc said:

I've been saying this for ages.

My "hardcore" ITR runs 15" wheels with 55-profile rubber, and as a result rides better than most modern hot-hatches. It also has the lightest wheel/tyre combo of any of our cars - the 18"s on the "everyday" Golf GTi being the heaviest...and the hardest to put on/off because VW use bolts rather than Honda's studs and nuts.

Even the 16" steels with winter tyres are lighter than the 18"s - so much for 'lightweight alloys'...




It's not like modern cars even need the grip - any 90s warm-hatch or hot-hatch had enough grip to enable you to travel faster than safe down a country road, while the modern stuff (Golf V GTi, Focus ST, MeganeSport etc.) is actually rather boring until you're doing insane speeds...because you can't get the cars 'up on their toes' that easily...

Totally agree with all of that.

[Rawwr]

I blame concept artwork. Whenever you see concept art, the wheel sizes and tyre profiles always appear massively exaggerated to what they should be, almost looking like one of those cutesy caricature drawings you can get.

I think that then leads to a certain expectation of the production car to mimic the concept art as closely as possible to avoid any apparent disappointment.

Maybe?

[Gizmo!]

I blame BTCC



Le Mans and GT series run on 18" btw. F1 is 13" but almost certainly going up to 15" in the next couple of years and then I expect 18" soon after.

[FamilyDub]

I made sure I found a GTI that was on the standard 17" rims. 18" look miles better, but tyre cost, ride, unsprung weight, etc all better on the 17" alloys.

Pretty sure our 116d runs 16" - looks dinky, but the difference in ride quality is marked...

It seems to be Audi in particular pushing these ludicrous gangsta-sized alloy sizes.

[Twincam16]

Rawwr said:

I blame concept artwork. Whenever you see concept art, the wheel sizes and tyre profiles always appear massively exaggerated to what they should be, almost looking like one of those cutesy caricature drawings you can get.

I think that then leads to a certain expectation of the production car to mimic the concept art as closely as possible to avoid any apparent disappointment.

Maybe?

I agree. There has been an odd trend when it comes to concept drawings - for years a dimensionally accurate image would do nicely, or a computer-rendered CAD image, but a lot of these designs just look silly, almost like a Manga cartoon-car rather than anything approaching the real thing.

There are ways of making small wheels look bigger - whitewall banding, for example.

[Gizmo!]

Twincam16 said:

Rawwr said:

I blame concept artwork. Whenever you see concept art, the wheel sizes and tyre profiles always appear massively exaggerated to what they should be, almost looking like one of those cutesy caricature drawings you can get.

I think that then leads to a certain expectation of the production car to mimic the concept art as closely as possible to avoid any apparent disappointment.

Maybe?

I agree. There has been an odd trend when it comes to concept drawings - for years a dimensionally accurate image would do nicely, or a computer-rendered CAD image, but a lot of these designs just look silly, almost like a Manga cartoon-car rather than anything approaching the real thing.

There are ways of making small wheels look bigger - whitewall banding, for example.

Cool look, bro.

[Twincam16]

Gizmo! said:

Twincam16 said:

Rawwr said:

I blame concept artwork. Whenever you see concept art, the wheel sizes and tyre profiles always appear massively exaggerated to what they should be, almost looking like one of those cutesy caricature drawings you can get.

I think that then leads to a certain expectation of the production car to mimic the concept art as closely as possible to avoid any apparent disappointment.

Maybe?

I agree. There has been an odd trend when it comes to concept drawings - for years a dimensionally accurate image would do nicely, or a computer-rendered CAD image, but a lot of these designs just look silly, almost like a Manga cartoon-car rather than anything approaching the real thing.

There are ways of making small wheels look bigger - whitewall banding, for example.

Cool look, bro.

Very good. This is a better illustration of what I mean:

[Vladimir]

LeoSayer said:

10kg per wheel!?!?

Are the 19" wheels made out of lead?

Nope -I compared my 160 styles with 225/45 17" non RFT CSC3s to a 19" M Sport (225M) alloys with Bridgestone RFT tyres. I forget the exact breakdown and it took ages to find the weights (wheels - easy, tyres - had to use a US website - VERY hard to find tyre weights) but mine come in (wheel and tyre) at a whisker under 20kg (approx 12kg wheel, 8ish for the tyre), a rear 19" on 255/35(I think) RFTs came in at 29ish kg per corner. A HUGE amount of extra unsprung weight.

Edited by Vladimir on Tuesday 26th April 17:12

[LukeSi]

Vladimir said:

This is a little annoyance I find wit modern cars - the ever increasing size of alloys along with vast tyres on rubber band profiles. German metal is the most "guilty" and this months Evo has a great little rant from Harry Metcalfe about how BMW engineers are slaves to the designers - weight, comfort, etc just does not seem to matter.

So anyone with me on this one?

I have a 335d - perfectly decent, nippy estate car. But I spent ages looking for one on 17s (the smallest you can have to fit the brakes) because 18s and even more so 19s just kill the ride, weigh a massive amount more (my 17s on non RFT tyres aren't that lightweight yet weigh nearly 10kgs per wheel/tyre LESS than average 19s on RFTs!!), are much more fragile, the tyres are comedy money and limited in choice, etc, etc.

The current F10 5 series has arches so vast that even 19s look fairly dinky. Audis are the same. Merc seem to resist them more for some reason.

A few hot hatches are being made with 19s as standard too!

Will this trend ever stop and where did it come from?!

It's certainly not motor racing - look at rally wheels, F1, Lemans, etc. It doesn't seem to make any sense apart from simply being fashionable.

Answers on a postcard.

Edited by Vladimir on Tuesday 26th April 15:40

The ride on 18s isn't hard at all. Atleast not in the Saloon

[davidspooner]

Do you have a picture of the 335 on 17"s?

[KB_S1]

I had to hire a car in January. Got an Astra and it had 225/35/18 tyres. The wheels looked right for the car but it is totally bonkers.
It had a piddly 115bhp 1.6 engine.
Completely un-necessary.

[Vladimir]

davidspooner said:

Do you have a picture of the 335 on 17"s?

[HellDiver]

My old diesel Lancer had 18" rims, they weighed a tonne and the tyres were silly money (standard fit was 215-45-18, about £150 a tyre two years ago). No need for it, especially as the car ran these stupid, tiny 268mm/262mm brakes. You could have a game of "spot the disc" and lose.

[Dog Star]

You really notice the state of the roads these days, especially with bigger rims. My SL runs 285/35/18 rears which aren't quite as rubber-bandy as they sound (height being a proportion of width) - however I wouldn't dream of going for bigger rims - the ride would be truly boneshaking. This is the first time I have not wanted to make my wheels bigger.

I don't think anyone has mentioned the kerbing issues with these stupid big rims either

[munroman]

A friend has had 5 Series for about 20 years, but as he travels to remote parts of Scotland he wanted 'normal' wheels and tyres, and a proper spare, as well as hating the ride on run flats.

BMW's dealer looked down their nose at him when he requested this, 'it couldn't be done'.

He bought a Passat CC and loves it, so BMW have probably lost a customer for life due to the silly wheels.

[LMC]

I think the most important thing, from an aesthetic point of view, is not how big the wheel is but how nicely it fits in the arch.

BMW have always had a good fitting choice of wheels, but other Euroboxes have arches that would take a 26" wheel. Especially the front arches. Must be to allow for the super soft suspension to travel I suppose.

[Fox-]

Vladimir said:

I have a 335d - perfectly decent, nippy estate car. But I spent ages looking for one on 17s (the smallest you can have to fit the brakes) because 18s and even more so 19s just kill the ride

19 inch wheels were never offered as an option on your pre LCI 335d E91?

[vit4]

Two cars, both on 13" steel rims

Personally, I think the modern big jobbies look like a big jobby. Saw an advert for a new Pug 508 today. Ridiculous doesn't quite seem strong enough

Also, the cost is a huge factor, I recently paid £40odd a branded tyre for mine - my Dad on his which is only 15/16 was £90 a corner so dread to think how much some of the stupid-big ones are. Just no need for it, especially with the roads in the state they are.

[ian_c_uk]

Every time I get a courtesy car from BMW, it's a Mini on soft suspension and massive wheels with runflats. Look great, but leans on long sweepers and jars on potholes / ridges.

Always makes me so glad when I get my Mini back, 15" wheels, conventional non runflats, and sports susp.