Wheel sizes getting silly?

[va1o]

Vauxhall are probably the worst for this kind of thing. The base model Insignia has 17" wheels, those are the smallest you can get, most have 18"/ 19" and the 'SRi VX-Line Red' gets 20" Totally OTT on a family car with a 1.8 N/A petrol engine.

Mercedes as mentioned seem to be one of the few to have resisted this nonsense, C-Class and E-Class still have 16" standard and don't look too bad either.

[TrevorH]

Vladimir said:

Blakewater said:

You don't get less than 18s on the Sport model or less than 17s on the SE on the 325 and above. Car manufacturers are led by the aftermarket tuning scene. They send people to the shows and look at what's fashionable and go by that. I like the look of a nice set of alloys and I do think the bigger ones look better, at least on some cars, even if they do spoil the ride.

You can get M Sports on 17s - many have them - but you might be right about 18s or bigger being standard on six pot E9*s.

My E91 330D SE came with 17s as standard. They fill the arches pretty well but £160 a corner for tyres smarts a little.

[MC Bodge]

jsg612 said:

I think in all fairness to modern day expectations of cars, the majority have got it right. In most cases I think it's around...

15"-16" Small city car
17"-18" Medium sized family hatch/coupe
19"-20" Large saloon/estate

Er, no.

A 'city car' is best with tall tyres on modest rims. Maybe around 14".

I'd say that 15" or maybe 16" are enough for any car.

Suspension needs to be firm enough, with controlled damping, not rock hard. We're not talking aout engineering here, though, we're talking about 'image'....

[Vladimir]

Obviously brakes dictate wheel size a little - my 348ish mm front disks are very tight inside my 17" rims so I clearly couldn't go any smaller!

Notice that proper "racing" Caterhams all use 13" rims? None go for the bigger options.

[Fox-]

I largely agree with you, despite my pedantry about the wheel sizes available on your car.

The first thing I shall do to my next car - 80% of which are on 19's with RFT's - is replace all 4 wheels with brand new 18 inch wheels without RFT's. Better to drive, better ride and as a happy bonus, £600 for a set of high end tyres not £1200 a set.

[MC Bodge]

Vladimir said:

Notice that proper "racing" Caterhams all use 13" rims? None go for the bigger options.

Caterhams are light enough not to need massive brake discs.

[Vladimir]

MC Bodge said:

Caterhams are light enough not to need massive brake discs.

Slightly mixed messages here - just backing my point by saying track cars benefit from smaller wheels. The Caterham has the luxury of featherweight tendencies so does indeed get away with little disks.

Fox - what are you getting?

[Backtobasics]

Most Audi A1's I have seen are on 18's.

[MC Bodge]

Backtobasics said:

Most Audi A1's I have seen are on 18's.

That is because the drivers are aspirational, young professionals. They are aspiring to drive DTM cars and want a similar ride experience.

[shoestring7]

MC Bodge said:

Backtobasics said:

Most Audi A1's I have seen are on 18's.

That is because the drivers are aspirational, young professionals. They are aspiring to drive DTM cars and want a similar ride experience.

Rubbish. I know a couple of people looking to buy an A1. They wouldn't know a DTM car if it ran them over. They just think it looks good - and as a wheel 'upgrade' costs money it therefore must be good.

The Audi salesman (who probably wouldn't know a DTM car either) also told them it was 'better'.

Last year I got close to buying a MINI Cooper S. The youngish sales guy was amazed as I tried to spec. a car on 16" wheels with non-RFT tyres - which involved adding most of the Chilli pack things without the Chilli pack, and calls to MINI/BMW product managers.

He had no idea what I was trying to achieve and couldn't understand what I was going on about: 'compliance' and 'harsh RFT ride' ???! As it happended, he rang me a while later as he'd tried some demo's on non-RFT's to sheepishly tell me he now understood better. I still didn't order one because the Tonka-interior just annoyed me.

SS7

[thebigmacmoomin]

Vladimir said:

I have a 335d - perfectly decent, nippy estate car. But I spent ages looking for one on 17s (the smallest you can have to fit the brakes) because 18s and even more so 19s just kill the ride

Its all down to taste. Personally, I would have 18" wheels with normal tyres, not runflats, on a 335d.

On my Focus ST, It came with the standard wheels which are 18" (225/40) and I have replaced the standard wheels with 18" Kei's. Personally, 18" wheels on the ST are too small if you have normal suspension. As mine is lowered on Ford supplied Eibach springs (20mm drop), they are fine. Some ST's ive seen are fitted with 20" rims that are a replica of the standard ones. Too big for my taste and would knacker the ride.

Edited by thebigmacmoomin on Wednesday 27th April 16:11

[Fox-]

Vladimir said:

Fox - what are you getting?

E92 335i or 330i.

[slipstream 1985]

everyone forgetting that cars are getting bigger, thus tyres have rose in size to keep up

[S3_Graham]

g3org3y said:

19 inch vs 16 inch.



I think that photo sums up a lot about how the car industry has 'progressed' in the last 15 years or so.

Edited by g3org3y on Wednesday 27th April 09:42

Imagine how good that 1M would look on some 17" BBS LM's

[900T-R]

KB_S1 said:

Flip side of this is that I am finding it tricky to get a good set of tyres for the Impreza.

205/50/16 seems to be considered the realm of very slow and boring cars now.

Try 205/55/15 and 225/55/16 on my Chimaera...

[MC Bodge]

shoestring7 said:

MC Bodge said:

Backtobasics said:

Most Audi A1's I have seen are on 18's.

That is because the drivers are aspirational, young professionals. They are aspiring to drive DTM cars and want a similar ride experience.

Rubbish. I know a couple of people looking to buy an A1. They wouldn't know a DTM car if it ran them over. They just think it looks good - and as a wheel 'upgrade' costs money it therefore must be good.

I know and I was being a bit silly. The result of using massive wheels on tyres with very little depth is a rock-hard ride and little bump compliance. this may be helpful in the German touring car championship, but madness for the UK roads where road surfaces are often poor and are not race tracks.

The 'prestige' of having over-sized wheels and over-firm suspension is the 'prestige' of reducing the useful performance of the vehicle.

Massive wheels are the Jimmy Choos of the car world. Discuss.

[oobster]

MC Bodge said:

The 'prestige' of having over-sized wheels and over-firm suspension is the 'prestige' of reducing the useful performance of the vehicle.

Massive wheels are the Jimmy Choos of the car world. Discuss.

But how often would the average owner use the full performance of their vehicle?

For instance (dons flame suit) I own a Skoda Octavia VRS which I have had remapped to approx. 250bhp. The car comes as standard with 18" alloys but also comes as standard with a comedy ride height for a supposed performance vehicle. Hence I had the suspension changed to Weitec coilovers - there is less body roll with a decent reduction in the ride height (without needing to be ultra-careful over speed bumps) while still retaining an almost standard ride comfort.

The roads around where I live (central Scotland) are pretty bad, especially after the extreme weather we had in December, but I consider myself to be fairly good at scanning the road ahead and I would estimate that around 95% of the time I avoid potholes. However, potholes are not the only issue (if you look at my previous posts/threads you will see I hit a rock in my old car in mid-January, wrecking an 18" alloy and tyre).

I am considering purchasing a set of 19" VMR alloy wheels, which would need to be fitted with 225/35 tyres. Note the word CONSIDERING. At a cost of over £1600 inc. tyres the decision to proceed won't be taken lightly.

The reason I would like to make this modification to my car is not because I am a boy-racer (I am nearly 40, employed in a fairly professional position and I have a young daughter) but is TOTALLY for aesthetic purposes. The remap and the suspension upgrade means I can push on slightly if/when the conditions etc allow, and the addition of some 19" wheels is unlikely to blunt the upgraded performance to such a level that the car would perform worse than before the remap/coilovers.

I don't 'do' B-road blasts, I don't take my car on a track, I have a clean licence and intend to keep it that way. We are all different and for me (and others I would imagine) the 'look' is an important factor, otherwise we'd all be running about in rusty old bangers. I get enjoyment from driving my car, but I also enjoy looking at it and seeing the modifications (hopefully tasteful) that I have made allowing the car to be more suited to my tastes and also a little bit individual.

I modify my car for me, not so that others can admire (or otherwise) what I have done, so the 'prestige' doesn't come into it.

So - where is harm/what is the problem in getting bigger wheels just for the look?

[thinfourth2]

MC Bodge said:

Massive wheels are the Jimmy Choos of the car world. Discuss.

Nothing wrong with a set of 20" rims if fitted to the right vehicle


A 17" alloy off the wifes Honda to give a an idea of the wheel size.
The side of the tyre of the mog sayes 335/80R20 giving a height of roughly 42"

[MC Bodge]

oobster said:

But how often would the average owner use the full performance of their vehicle?

When I said 'performance' I wasn't referring to the out-and-out speed potential, it was a more general ability of the car to cope with the conditions encountered on a regular basis.

oobster said:

For instance (dons flame suit) I own a Skoda Octavia VRS which I have had remapped to approx. 250bhp.

I too used to have an Octavia vRS (Mk1)that I had re-mapped and a few smaller changes under the bonnet and inside the cabin. Had I had the car longer I'd have fitted a rear ARB and possibly fitted adjustable dampers. I didn't do anything to change the outer 'look' as that doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I got rid of the car as a result of scraping the bumper on too many objects, crashing over speed humps and even grounded it on an Alpine dirt road that a lot of other cars managed to drive up.

The Mondeo Ghia X I replaced it has more plush suspension and better handling, but the wheels are too large and the tyres don't absorb harsh bumps very well. I suffered a puncture as a result of a concealed pothole in the dark in rain last winter. I suspect that 15" rims would have been fine. If the wheels get damaged I would just buy a set of used steel 16"s as fitted to the LX models.

oobster said:

The roads around where I live (central Scotland) are pretty bad.....I hit a rock in my old car in mid-January, wrecking an 18" alloy and tyre)....I am considering purchasing a set of 19" VMR alloy wheels,

I find that baffling! If you like driving, surely if you were going to spend money, you would make the car better to drive?

[havoc]

I'm with Bodge - the wife owns a MkV Golf GTi on 18"s and best friend's wife owns a Mk2 Octavia vRS...and the last thing either needs is bigger wheels with even shallower tyres.

Our "everyday" Golf, believe it or not, has the worst ride of all 3 cars...and please bear in mind the other two are a hardcore road-racer and a 1990s supercar!


So - if you want to modify your car to look "better" (sic), then that's your prerogative...but don't expect anyone with an ounce of automotive/mechanical nous to rubber-stamp that choice! You're more likely to get our pity, quite frankly...