I thought it could never happen to me....
Discussion
well it did. On Thursday I went to look at a 1997 Z3 2.8. Nice car with 58K miles, 12 months MoT, a pile of receipts for servicing, all with the names and reg number on, Mots going back 10 years, Log book in owners name, at his house, said he had has it 9 months but not used it. I checked the VIN number on the log book against the number in the car, and under the bonnet, all the same. Guy Said he bought it off a bloke he had know for 20 years, who had owned the car for 10 years. I rang my mate (a dealer) who did a HPI check, all it came back with was a private plate change 9 months ago, which coincided with the paperwork that was with the car. All seemed straight, agreed a price, job done.
Picked the car up Friday and paid cash. Drove the car 20 mile home and it drove like a 58K car should, no wear on the steering wheel and only very slight wear on the seat bolster. All nice and tight. Saturday morning I was up early and got the car on the ramp for a good inspection. I was really please in what I saw, in fact, save for a slightly torn exhaust mounting I could not see anything wrong. it had new disks and pads, I was REALLY pleased.
So, off the ramp and I though the first thing I would do was give it a good clean. Gunk all over the engine bay and a good scrub, followed by a jet wash. During this I hosed off a sticker that was on the side... and underneath were two holes, like where a plate had been... This made me a bit suspicious... I went back to look at the VIN number that you can see through the windowscreen... On closer look it was shiny, and very slightly wrinkled. I got a bent bit of wire and prodded the VIN.... it moved! in fact it came off and I pulled it out to reveal the real VIN of the car underneath. My heart dropped. I then took a harder look at the VIN stamped in the body at the back of the engine, I pulled away the sound deadening which was glued in place, to reveal some welding and distortion. It was a ringer....
Its 9:30, so I called the seller and told him it was a ringer... He of course denied it, saying he knew the bloke he bought it off, knew he had had the car 10 years, and basically I didn't know what I was on about. After a bit of an argument, he calmed down and asked me to bring the car over, which I agreed. He then called me back and asked me to take the car to the blokes house who he had bought the car from, and he would meet me there.
So, me, the seller and the previous owner are all looking at the car on the drive... they cant see what I am on about with the welding and distortion, and at first said that the sticker may be factory fitted... yea right... So the guy suggests we take it up the road to an accident repair specialist who he knew for his expert opinion. We get there and I show the guy the sticker, he then looks under the bonnet at the VIN number, and immediately announces "its a ringer"
The guy that had owned it for 10 years was gob smacked. The guy who sold it me straight away offered my money back in full. we went back to his house, he gave me my cash back, and even took me and my wife 20 miles back home. he said he was going to ask the other guy for his money back, but that was between him and the other guy. I admire the guy, he has integrity.
So, it all added up, all the paperwork, all the normal checks you do. I am SO glade I hosed that sticker off...
Incidentally, While we were on the guys drive, I called my mate and HPIed the cars original VIN number. It came back as a Z3, same year and spec, but it did not show as stolen?
Picked the car up Friday and paid cash. Drove the car 20 mile home and it drove like a 58K car should, no wear on the steering wheel and only very slight wear on the seat bolster. All nice and tight. Saturday morning I was up early and got the car on the ramp for a good inspection. I was really please in what I saw, in fact, save for a slightly torn exhaust mounting I could not see anything wrong. it had new disks and pads, I was REALLY pleased.
So, off the ramp and I though the first thing I would do was give it a good clean. Gunk all over the engine bay and a good scrub, followed by a jet wash. During this I hosed off a sticker that was on the side... and underneath were two holes, like where a plate had been... This made me a bit suspicious... I went back to look at the VIN number that you can see through the windowscreen... On closer look it was shiny, and very slightly wrinkled. I got a bent bit of wire and prodded the VIN.... it moved! in fact it came off and I pulled it out to reveal the real VIN of the car underneath. My heart dropped. I then took a harder look at the VIN stamped in the body at the back of the engine, I pulled away the sound deadening which was glued in place, to reveal some welding and distortion. It was a ringer....
Its 9:30, so I called the seller and told him it was a ringer... He of course denied it, saying he knew the bloke he bought it off, knew he had had the car 10 years, and basically I didn't know what I was on about. After a bit of an argument, he calmed down and asked me to bring the car over, which I agreed. He then called me back and asked me to take the car to the blokes house who he had bought the car from, and he would meet me there.
So, me, the seller and the previous owner are all looking at the car on the drive... they cant see what I am on about with the welding and distortion, and at first said that the sticker may be factory fitted... yea right... So the guy suggests we take it up the road to an accident repair specialist who he knew for his expert opinion. We get there and I show the guy the sticker, he then looks under the bonnet at the VIN number, and immediately announces "its a ringer"
The guy that had owned it for 10 years was gob smacked. The guy who sold it me straight away offered my money back in full. we went back to his house, he gave me my cash back, and even took me and my wife 20 miles back home. he said he was going to ask the other guy for his money back, but that was between him and the other guy. I admire the guy, he has integrity.
So, it all added up, all the paperwork, all the normal checks you do. I am SO glade I hosed that sticker off...
Incidentally, While we were on the guys drive, I called my mate and HPIed the cars original VIN number. It came back as a Z3, same year and spec, but it did not show as stolen?
Edited by buzzer on Sunday 1st May 21:08
Got to be worth sending a nice bottle of wine or something to the guy you bought it from for being honest enough to return your money. Sounds like he's just a victim as well and he was a true gent in the way he dealt with it all.
Glad for you it all went ok but feel sorry for the other guys if they both honestly didn't know, which it sounds like they didn't.
I'd be driving around in a ringer still if it was me, I'd never have spotted it.
Glad for you it all went ok but feel sorry for the other guys if they both honestly didn't know, which it sounds like they didn't.
I'd be driving around in a ringer still if it was me, I'd never have spotted it.
buzzer said:
It is, I would be interested in peoples opinion on that
Could be stolen recovered? As in it was stolen, had the identity cloned and insurance company recovered it then sold it on without restoring the original identity? Don't know if that's possible but would explain it. Did you get the original VRM at all?poing said:
Got to be worth sending a nice bottle of wine or something to the guy you bought it from for being honest enough to return your money. Sounds like he's just a victim as well and he was a true gent in the way he dealt with it all.
Glad for you it all went ok but feel sorry for the other guys if they both honestly didn't know, which it sounds like they didn't.
I'd be driving around in a ringer still if it was me, I'd never have spotted it.
I would certainly take a something nice round to the chap for that. Good trader. Worth a linky to his site?Glad for you it all went ok but feel sorry for the other guys if they both honestly didn't know, which it sounds like they didn't.
I'd be driving around in a ringer still if it was me, I'd never have spotted it.
Cheers
The Moose
buzzer said:
The guy who sold it me straight away offered my money back in full. we went back to his house, he gave me my cash back, and even took me and my wife 20 miles back home.
I wasnt expecting that!I would say it has been cloned, but surely there would have been issues taxing and insuring it if it was?
People sometimes use someone else's reg to avoid fines and congestion charges but that doesn't require all the VIN plates to be changed. That only tends to happen to conceal the identity of a stolen car. The point is the original identity of the car was HPI checked and didn't show up as stolen. It's all pretty weird really. Top marks to the seller for giving you your money back. He could have landed you with the problem rather than risking being out of pocket himself.
Edited by Blakewater on Sunday 1st May 20:49
I'd say you were lucky to get out of it without serious trouble, let alone the money.
"He then called me back and asked me to take the car to the blokes house who he had bought the car from"
"So the guy suggests we take it up the road to an accident repair specialist who he knew for his expert opinion"
"He then called me back and asked me to take the car to the blokes house who he had bought the car from"
"So the guy suggests we take it up the road to an accident repair specialist who he knew for his expert opinion"
Lets Torque said:
Hats off to the guy though for handing the money back as soon as it was confirmed it was a 'ringer' and then driving your family back to your house.
Or maybe he wasn't really surprised at all and simply didn't want any trouble from the police?After all, who's he going to sell it to now.....
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