RE: Porsche Panamera Pushes The (Range) Envelope
Discussion
LayZ said:
But the fact that diesel commuter barges now have close to supercar performance of 25 years ago is pretty incredible.
Indeed. Especially since some of these vehicles weigh as much as a small county. Diesel engine/turbo technology must have come on leaps and bounds over the last couple of decades. If you look at modern diesels which are 'only' red lining at 5000rpm, they are still making >100hp/litre in some cases. Pushing just monumental torque thanks to sequential induction compression.Even taking into account the high manufacture/repair costs of modern diesels it's still relatively cheap performance when you compare them to classic fast metal.
Delete the line that doesn't fit in the following list
Four-door
Four-seat
V6 engine
Porsche
Diesel
Hatchback
just doesn't go, does it? They should stick to what they do best, rather than trying to break into a segment that's already very well served, by established players.
And as for the looks - it's really trying too hard to be a four-door 911, trying to fit all the styling cues from the halo model.
Porsche should have taken a leaf from Jaguar's book - how to design a car that's still definitely a Jaguar, but somehow doesn't look alike any Jaguar that ever went before. (and has a storming diesel lump in the line-up too)
I honestly can't see a single reason why anyone would pick the Panamera over the XJ (badge included)
Four-door
Four-seat
V6 engine
Porsche
Diesel
Hatchback
just doesn't go, does it? They should stick to what they do best, rather than trying to break into a segment that's already very well served, by established players.
And as for the looks - it's really trying too hard to be a four-door 911, trying to fit all the styling cues from the halo model.
Porsche should have taken a leaf from Jaguar's book - how to design a car that's still definitely a Jaguar, but somehow doesn't look alike any Jaguar that ever went before. (and has a storming diesel lump in the line-up too)
I honestly can't see a single reason why anyone would pick the Panamera over the XJ (badge included)
TonyHetherington said:
PhantomPH said:
Almost exactly what I was going to post. Well done!
We live in a world where (rightly or wrongly) being able to say you have a car capable of doing good MPG appeals to the retards (said in a 'The Hangover' style) who don't understand the complexities of consumption and pollution. By Porsche producing and selling this model, they can carry on producing and selling the GT3 RS 4.0. Which in my book is a good thing.
If Porsche suddenly stopped making anything but the Cayenne and the Panamera, THEN people can moan.
I wouldn't even say it's "retards". I'd love to have good MPG. My car is costing me a bloody fortune in fuel and it's getting worse. To the point where I've often considered selling.We live in a world where (rightly or wrongly) being able to say you have a car capable of doing good MPG appeals to the retards (said in a 'The Hangover' style) who don't understand the complexities of consumption and pollution. By Porsche producing and selling this model, they can carry on producing and selling the GT3 RS 4.0. Which in my book is a good thing.
If Porsche suddenly stopped making anything but the Cayenne and the Panamera, THEN people can moan.
What Porsche have done here is make the nice comfy exotic looking sports car with all the comforts of the Turbo, but that can do 750 miles (!!!!) between fill ups. That's bloody impressive.
As you rightly say though - it means they can continue to make the RS / Turbo 911s of this world, so all is well.
Really, what I meant was that I spend 10,000 miles a year in my Freelander 2 and as such like that I can get decent MPG - for a number of reasons including the fact that I hate visiting the pump. If I had a 'Sunday only' car that gave me single figures but I only did 1,000 miles a year, I would not give a rats about the MPG.In short, this car is NOT aimed at the 'sports car' brigade, but at the "10,000+ miles a year" crew, who DO care about MPG - regardless of the price of the vehicle. I know s seriously wealthy chap who likes to pretend he is not bothered by the price of fuel etc, but even he is starting to get annoyed at how expensive running some of his fleet has become.
Oh well, as long as they do not stick one in one of their sports cars, unless it's a serious performance one. They have made one serious petrolheads with the turbo model, so now they need to catch all the other sales they are missing out on and the diesel suits those buyers rather well. The company will make more money and can invest more in r&d for future sports car models, so win win
Only the UK has a diesel badge snobbery, and perhaps the US - but even the US love their large diesels. (and I mean BIG).
Over in the part of the world I am now, and in Austria, Germany, Slovenia, Italy... no one mentions "urgh, diesel".
I think this was a strategic sale to allow Porsche to continue to sell more cars to middle-higher management. This car can now appear on the company car list for many, quite a clever move when you consider the XF diesel has just been launched. The company car tax for this will be significantly less than the Turbo model, but with the same badge envy as the Turbo. Good marketing if you ask me.
Selling 100,000 of these will lower the overall Co2 output for Porsche, which will allow more 4.0 RS models, so good on them. Supply and demand!
Over in the part of the world I am now, and in Austria, Germany, Slovenia, Italy... no one mentions "urgh, diesel".
I think this was a strategic sale to allow Porsche to continue to sell more cars to middle-higher management. This car can now appear on the company car list for many, quite a clever move when you consider the XF diesel has just been launched. The company car tax for this will be significantly less than the Turbo model, but with the same badge envy as the Turbo. Good marketing if you ask me.
Selling 100,000 of these will lower the overall Co2 output for Porsche, which will allow more 4.0 RS models, so good on them. Supply and demand!
LayZ said:
I was giving it full beans in my '72 911 away from a roundabout on the A50 on Sunday and the XF in front (they all seem to be diesels) comfortably kept ahead of me and didn't even look like it was trying.
Is the torque converter slipping Phil 
I assume the 'diesel' script will come with a no cost delete option. Let's hope so.
The Prorsche machine just keeps rolling on! love my Cayenne diesel have got 34 mpg over 4.5k miles some cruising between 90-100 on french roads, though i would not confirm that! my old cayenne we used to get around 17-18 average..love the drive of the car, think that the Panamera will be just as relaxing to drive, if they would make it in 4wd diesel then i would sell the cayenne and buy one..
It looked horrible when they launched it - and nothing has changed...
The only thing that car had going for it was it's engine... and now it doesn't even have that
A bad looking, reliable, fairly fast, waste of time.
P.S. ...and I hate to say it but I can't help myself; who the f*** chose that awful colour
The only thing that car had going for it was it's engine... and now it doesn't even have that
A bad looking, reliable, fairly fast, waste of time.
P.S. ...and I hate to say it but I can't help myself; who the f*** chose that awful colour
Edited by JuniorJet on Tuesday 3rd May 13:20
Rakoosh said:
Huh?
A diesel Cayenne I can understand but this?
I just don't get it... who buys a 60k+ panamera and is concerned about mpg? If you were then surely lots of other cars fit the mould better?
What next... a diesel 911 ... ?
I agree ENTIRELY.A diesel Cayenne I can understand but this?
I just don't get it... who buys a 60k+ panamera and is concerned about mpg? If you were then surely lots of other cars fit the mould better?
What next... a diesel 911 ... ?
To see a Lamborghini with a sticker for free parking at an amusement site is hilarious.
To show oneself in the largest best-equipped Merc, but with a Diesel badge, is RIDICULOUS.
To buy an enormous Porsche Pancake with an economical engine... Frankly, why not buy a more reasonable car?
I think the day I'll be obliged to use a Diesel I'll stop driving.
The name (sounds like a truck),
the noise (or like a truck, or bland),
the cost (cheap? fuel but expensive car),
the black smoke (noooo, this isn't true is it),
the stink (oh nooo, this isn't true either),
the complete absence of prestige,
and even...
like at Le Mans,
the STUPID insipid sound of a Diesel racing car, such as the winning Audis.
Just do NOT sound like racing cars.
Oh, I see, racing is only about using as least fuel as poss.
Heavens things have changed!
TonyHetherington said:
Why the negativity?
The Panamera has a very specific role; cross country people moving in comfort. A diesel version is a logical extension of that.
Ok the badge is horrid, I'll certainly give you that, and I've never been a fan of the Panamera's shape. But doing what it's meant to do; cross continent blasting, I'm sure it's superb.
I am not being negative, I would buy one no problem... It is just about the bragging rights... you know, you buy a Porsche and it should be special, not to have the same engine I have in my current car, which is a little (about 20K)cheaper than that Porsche...The Panamera has a very specific role; cross country people moving in comfort. A diesel version is a logical extension of that.
Ok the badge is horrid, I'll certainly give you that, and I've never been a fan of the Panamera's shape. But doing what it's meant to do; cross continent blasting, I'm sure it's superb.
Like people said before, I see no point in buying this car if I can get a brand new XJ which is more powerful and probably more comfortable... I drove the XJ quite a bit already, have never drove a Panamarena, but seat on one in the showroom and nothing special about it... I would not trade the XJ for it, not on diesel engine configuration.
I drive about 50k kilometers a year, most of it in Germans autobahns, I want a car that car cruise comfortably at 180 to 200km, the XJ does that perfectly, I dont see the 250HP Porsche being able to do the same comfortably...
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