Leon 20v Turbo????
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
Are these cars actually fun to drive??? And by that I don't simply mean able to be fairly quick with a remap. But actually enjoyable to throw about?
While I'm happy to be corrected, I always thought (by reputation) that they where a rather dull steer.
Personally think such a car would be a MASSIVE step down from a GT-Four, in every respect.
Yes, they are. I get so sick of hearing about people banging on about RWD for every bloody car on here, it gets so tiresome. Yes, RWD is better, but FWD can be just as rewarding. While I'm happy to be corrected, I always thought (by reputation) that they where a rather dull steer.
Personally think such a car would be a MASSIVE step down from a GT-Four, in every respect.
As for the LCR, they have, IMO, damn good steering. The ride is firm without being harsh, and you can really hussle them along. I took mine up to Scotland last year and had a fantastic hoon down a deserted B road.
Neil Bolton who is a massive RWD fanboy
took mine for a spin the other week and rather liked itredgriff500 said:
I fitted LCR suspension to my LC - still dull.
It's competent as are most VAG products, it's probably the best value in the range but its still not fun.
Seriously go and try a decent RWD - 200SX, M3 BMW, Supra etc
I am never certain of people's idea of fun and why they seem convinced any VAG product is dull. In my experience the Leon Cupra R is a good all round package and with a remap can certainly hassle cars which appear on paper considerably faster and i'm not alone with this view. Evo, Top Gear, Performance Car all rated the LCR very well commending its handling as far better than the mk4 golf it is based on and were questioning the need to spend the extra £££ to buy a Audi S3. Evo in particular found that it had better handling characteristics than a Focus RS. It's competent as are most VAG products, it's probably the best value in the range but its still not fun.
Seriously go and try a decent RWD - 200SX, M3 BMW, Supra etc
Comparing the leon cupra with Cupra R suspension to a curpra R is a tad odd as there are lots of other differences beyond the suspension spring/shock ratings. The Anti roll bars, the additional lower strut brace, the steering rack, the brakes and rear axle all contribute to making the Cupra R a different proposition an more driver focussed than a regular Cupra model.
Finally, M3 or Supra/200sx are pointless comparisons as these cars are totally different and fail to satisfy the target MPG figures nor is the M3 going to be overly suitable for someone concerned about potential on going running costs.
Dave
aka_kerrly said:
I am never certain of people's idea of fun and why they seem convinced any VAG product is dull. In my experience the Leon Cupra R is a good all round package and with a remap can certainly hassle cars which appear on paper considerably faster and i'm not alone with this view. Evo, Top Gear, Performance Car all rated the LCR very well commending its handling as far better than the mk4 golf it is based on and were questioning the need to spend the extra £££ to buy a Audi S3. Evo in particular found that it had better handling characteristics than a Focus RS.
Comparing the leon cupra with Cupra R suspension to a curpra R is a tad odd as there are lots of other differences beyond the suspension spring/shock ratings. The Anti roll bars, the additional lower strut brace, the steering rack, the brakes and rear axle all contribute to making the Cupra R a different proposition an more driver focussed than a regular Cupra model.
Finally, M3 or Supra/200sx are pointless comparisons as these cars are totally different and fail to satisfy the target MPG figures nor is the M3 going to be overly suitable for someone concerned about potential on going running costs.
Dave
Amen.Comparing the leon cupra with Cupra R suspension to a curpra R is a tad odd as there are lots of other differences beyond the suspension spring/shock ratings. The Anti roll bars, the additional lower strut brace, the steering rack, the brakes and rear axle all contribute to making the Cupra R a different proposition an more driver focussed than a regular Cupra model.
Finally, M3 or Supra/200sx are pointless comparisons as these cars are totally different and fail to satisfy the target MPG figures nor is the M3 going to be overly suitable for someone concerned about potential on going running costs.
Dave
AbarthChris said:
Yes, they are. I get so sick of hearing about people banging on about RWD for every bloody car on here, it gets so tiresome. Yes, RWD is better, but FWD can be just as rewarding.
As for the LCR, they have, IMO, damn good steering. The ride is firm without being harsh, and you can really hussle them along. I took mine up to Scotland last year and had a fantastic hoon down a deserted B road.
Neil Bolton who is a massive RWD fanboy took mine for a spin the other week and rather liked it
Hi Chris, thanks for the reply As for the LCR, they have, IMO, damn good steering. The ride is firm without being harsh, and you can really hussle them along. I took mine up to Scotland last year and had a fantastic hoon down a deserted B road.
Neil Bolton who is a massive RWD fanboy
took mine for a spin the other week and rather liked itWho mentioned RWD??
Firstly I disagree, while I like FWD, I personally find a good RWD car more rewarding.
But that wasn't what I was asking. I was asking about the LCR in regards and comparison to other fwd cars. I've heard it said many times that many VAG vehicles, especially ones of this era are not really drivers cars. The ones I've been in would certainly support this, however I freely admit I've not been in a LCR.
I'm not denying they can't be fast - but fast isn't the same as fun in my book.
So how do they compare to say something like a 3.0 V6 Alfa 156, MG ZS180, Focus ST170, FRS MK1, R53 MINI CS, Clio 182, ITR DC2, etc, etc...
300bhp/ton said:
So how do they compare to say something like a 3.0 V6 Alfa 156, MG ZS180, Focus ST170, FRS MK1, R53 MINI CS, Clio 182, ITR DC2, etc, etc...
A quick browse of some past road tests suggests... that everyone who has tested it has rated it highly. Autocar = 2005 LCR better than the Megane RS, Golf GTI, Honda Civic Type R, winning the Used Hot Hatch test.
Autocar = 2003 LCR against Alfa 147 GTV, Seat wins, described as " Cupra R has a remarkably well-strapped-down chassis stripped of any float or bodyroll. It feels solidly planted at all speeds,as ever, the steering feels chunky, well-weighted and is usefully quick-acting, which makes for a handling package that's a near-perfect companion to the tidy performance
Evo = LCR, better handling and more usable on road vs the mk1 Focus RS + quicker lap time around Anglsey
5Th Gear = Tiff raves about it compared to honda civic Type R, Mini but prefer the focus RS
Autoexpress - rated highly after 9 month long term test and definitely looked like people were having fun at Millbrook when AE were running hot laps at the Motorlive show.
Evo = Another test vs the CTR + Mini Copper S and conclude that as a all round package to go on a blast down some A + B roads the LCR is the BEST but Mini edges it on track because of a better turn in.
It's easy to do a quick search an find Top Gear/EVO/PC/5Th gear reviews but it is hard finding negative views!
aka_kerrly said:
A quick browse of some past road tests suggests... that everyone who has tested it has rated it highly.
Autocar = 2005 LCR better than the Megane RS, Golf GTI, Honda Civic Type R, winning the Used Hot Hatch test.
Autocar = 2003 LCR against Alfa 147 GTV, Seat wins, described as " Cupra R has a remarkably well-strapped-down chassis stripped of any float or bodyroll. It feels solidly planted at all speeds,as ever, the steering feels chunky, well-weighted and is usefully quick-acting, which makes for a handling package that's a near-perfect companion to the tidy performance
Evo = LCR, better handling and more usable on road vs the mk1 Focus RS + quicker lap time around Anglsey
5Th Gear = Tiff raves about it compared to honda civic Type R, Mini but prefer the focus RS
Autoexpress - rated highly after 9 month long term test and definitely looked like people were having fun at Millbrook when AE were running hot laps at the Motorlive show.
Evo = Another test vs the CTR + Mini Copper S and conclude that as a all round package to go on a blast down some A + B roads the LCR is the BEST but Mini edges it on track because of a better turn in.
It's easy to do a quick search an find Top Gear/EVO/PC/5Th gear reviews but it is hard finding negative views!
Cheers Autocar = 2005 LCR better than the Megane RS, Golf GTI, Honda Civic Type R, winning the Used Hot Hatch test.
Autocar = 2003 LCR against Alfa 147 GTV, Seat wins, described as " Cupra R has a remarkably well-strapped-down chassis stripped of any float or bodyroll. It feels solidly planted at all speeds,as ever, the steering feels chunky, well-weighted and is usefully quick-acting, which makes for a handling package that's a near-perfect companion to the tidy performance
Evo = LCR, better handling and more usable on road vs the mk1 Focus RS + quicker lap time around Anglsey
5Th Gear = Tiff raves about it compared to honda civic Type R, Mini but prefer the focus RS
Autoexpress - rated highly after 9 month long term test and definitely looked like people were having fun at Millbrook when AE were running hot laps at the Motorlive show.
Evo = Another test vs the CTR + Mini Copper S and conclude that as a all round package to go on a blast down some A + B roads the LCR is the BEST but Mini edges it on track because of a better turn in.
It's easy to do a quick search an find Top Gear/EVO/PC/5Th gear reviews but it is hard finding negative views!
Makes for interesting reading, high praise indeed. Sounds like it might be worth a punt, although coming from a modded Rally bred AWD Celica I wonder just how different it'll feel for the OP - but only they can answer that
Ta.
300bhp/ton said:
Cheers
Makes for interesting reading, high praise indeed. Sounds like it might be worth a punt, although coming from a modded Rally bred AWD Celica I wonder just how different it'll feel for the OP - but only they can answer that
Ta.
Hmmmm more of a response than I expected tbh. I will try and have a go in one. I know it will be totally different from a 356hp 4wd beastie but I think I will be happy with "different" but not happy with boring. I look upon my early FWD driving days with fond memories and enjoy the fun of FWD handling. I'll try and have a go in a remapped one to see how I get on. Thanks for the advice/suggestionsMakes for interesting reading, high praise indeed. Sounds like it might be worth a punt, although coming from a modded Rally bred AWD Celica I wonder just how different it'll feel for the OP - but only they can answer that
Ta.
aka_kerrly said:
Comparing the leon cupra with Cupra R suspension to a curpra R is a tad odd as there are lots of other differences beyond the suspension spring/shock ratings. The Anti roll bars, the additional lower strut brace, the steering rack, the brakes and rear axle all contribute to making the Cupra R a different proposition an more driver focussed than a regular Cupra model.
Finally, M3 or Supra/200sx are pointless comparisons as these cars are totally different and fail to satisfy the target MPG figures nor is the M3 going to be overly suitable for someone concerned about potential on going running costs.
Dave
Title just mentioned Leon 20v Turbo.Finally, M3 or Supra/200sx are pointless comparisons as these cars are totally different and fail to satisfy the target MPG figures nor is the M3 going to be overly suitable for someone concerned about potential on going running costs.
Dave
Why would a 200Sx be worse on fuel than a Leon R ?
And an M3 would be far better IME.
I'd also suggest that an E36 M3 Evo is likely to cost less to run - no turbo and less electronics to go wrong.
The Cupra R is a great choice if you want a fun and economical hot hatch that's around £5k. I wouldn't even consider a normal Cupra instead as the changes to the R are quite extensive. I regularly do 300 mile journies in mine and can easily average 35mpg @ 70mph. In my experience they are also very reliable cars.
Worth noting though that they aren't particularly fast without a remap (roughly Civic Type-R pace), but with a remap they are reasonably potent (~270bhp). Despite what others (including magazines) have stated, I found the handling typical of the Mk IV golf platform, i.e. poor damping with too much body roll. Hence why I binned the entire suspension and anti-roll bars for an Eibach/Koni setup.
Worth noting though that they aren't particularly fast without a remap (roughly Civic Type-R pace), but with a remap they are reasonably potent (~270bhp). Despite what others (including magazines) have stated, I found the handling typical of the Mk IV golf platform, i.e. poor damping with too much body roll. Hence why I binned the entire suspension and anti-roll bars for an Eibach/Koni setup.
I don't need much of an excuse!
Had ours for almost a month and loving it! Fuel isn't as bad as we thought, don't know what it's doing exactly (haven't figured out the computer yet).
I love the looks, goes like stink (first 'performance' car I've ever owned however) and is fairly sensible too (bigish boot and five doors).
I'm more than happy
Had ours for almost a month and loving it! Fuel isn't as bad as we thought, don't know what it's doing exactly (haven't figured out the computer yet).
I love the looks, goes like stink (first 'performance' car I've ever owned however) and is fairly sensible too (bigish boot and five doors).
I'm more than happy
Ian974 said:
As an aside, you say you've had it 7 years or so, how attached are you to the GT4?
If it's purely the fuel issue, would a cheap economical 2nd car as well as the GT4 be an option? with that fuel consumption something cheap should pay for itself in fuel savings reasonably quickly?
I've thought of this too, if I were to do this it would have to be a very cheap 2nd car and insurance on the celica would still need to be paid so with the cost of insuring and fuelling a second car I'm pretty certain I would be spending more than I am curently so defeating the object. If it's purely the fuel issue, would a cheap economical 2nd car as well as the GT4 be an option? with that fuel consumption something cheap should pay for itself in fuel savings reasonably quickly?
I gave it some stick today and had a huuuuuuge grin on my face. I could not live without a turbo.
300bhp/ton said:
Hi Chris, thanks for the reply
Who mentioned RWD??
Firstly I disagree, while I like FWD, I personally find a good RWD car more rewarding.
But that wasn't what I was asking. I was asking about the LCR in regards and comparison to other fwd cars. I've heard it said many times that many VAG vehicles, especially ones of this era are not really drivers cars. The ones I've been in would certainly support this, however I freely admit I've not been in a LCR.
I'm not denying they can't be fast - but fast isn't the same as fun in my book.
So how do they compare to say something like a 3.0 V6 Alfa 156, MG ZS180, Focus ST170, FRS MK1, R53 MINI CS, Clio 182, ITR DC2, etc, etc...
My reply was aimed at a mix of posts, including yours so apologies for the confusion!Who mentioned RWD??
Firstly I disagree, while I like FWD, I personally find a good RWD car more rewarding.
But that wasn't what I was asking. I was asking about the LCR in regards and comparison to other fwd cars. I've heard it said many times that many VAG vehicles, especially ones of this era are not really drivers cars. The ones I've been in would certainly support this, however I freely admit I've not been in a LCR.
I'm not denying they can't be fast - but fast isn't the same as fun in my book.
So how do they compare to say something like a 3.0 V6 Alfa 156, MG ZS180, Focus ST170, FRS MK1, R53 MINI CS, Clio 182, ITR DC2, etc, etc...
I haven't driven all of those cars, but I have spent time in the ZS, Clio and R53 Mini.
The ZS has a fantastic chassis, marred by overly harsh suspension. The LCR is stiff but not too much, and can be a perfectly comfortable motorway cruiser as well as B road blaster. Its more refined than the ZS imo.
The Clio is a fantastic little car but a different proposition to the LCR. The Leon is much bigger, better cabin, better driving position. The size difference makes the handling hard to compare but I would take the LCR every time.
redgriff500 said:
Why would a 200Sx be worse on fuel than a Leon R ?
Its an older bigger engine car, I’ve achieved 40MPG in my stage 1 Leon Cupra R . I very much doubt you'd achieve that with a 90's turbo jap coupe (MPG really wasn’t a priority back then).redgriff500 said:
And an M3 would be far better IME.
I'd also suggest that an E36 M3 Evo is likely to cost less to run - no turbo and less electronics to go wrong.
You're kidding me right??? Are you seriously suggesting that a M3 is cheaper to run than a Cupra R? I'd also suggest that an E36 M3 Evo is likely to cost less to run - no turbo and less electronics to go wrong.
Good E36 M3's are hard to come by nowadays, I know friends who have search for 6 months before finding a decent one. They're cheap to buy these days and as a result most have been owned by people who haven’t maintained them properly. If they're not maintained properly they will cost you lots of money.
I have several friends who have or currently own E36 M3's as well as a friend who works at BMW, I’ve had many long chats with them about buying an E36, and it always came down to whether or not you can afford the running costs and potential big bills.
The E36 engine is crammed pack full of technology, even by today’s standards, but if things go wrong with them it can get VERY expensive, very quickly. To maintain a M3 "properly" you need to have disposable money.
I'm a massive fan of the E36 M3, i intend to own one at some point... but they're not cheap cars to run. The Cupra R is considerable cheaper to run, the M3 is a much better car, but this is reflected in the maintenance cost. And let’s not forget the cost of M3 insurance.
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