RE: PH Fleet: 1997 Lexus 4.0 V8
Discussion
tonym911 said:
There are a lot of people around who like to take a punt on potential moneypits and who are quite content to accept the downside of having to restore them as they go along. I think it's an entirely worthy pursuit. I'm quite surprised nobody has tried to set up a web group of such people who would trade cars exclusively between themselves, safe in the knowledge that they are buying from like-minded people. It would take a lot of the risk out of older, high quality car purchases. There is a US-based site for 'loved cars' but it's not as focused as what's in my mind. The entry criteria would have to be carefully worked out to keep it safe from abuse. Outsiders could buy from the site but only at a premium. Members' rates would be like mates' rates.
You might be onto something there, I have the knowledge and resources to set up such a site, but would need to do some more thought into how it would work.... would you charge for membership, what would people pay? How do you qualify such a car? It's an interesting concept though...I am also one of those people having recently bought an MR2 for £300, have spent another £300 on parts so far and counting, I am doing all the work myself in between a full time job, a demanding wife and 4 kids! but when i get something working that wasn't before it's a real joy and amazingly fulfilling experience. It's still not on the road yet, but I've only had it for 3 months!!! lol....
I can see the sense in all this.
Cars of this ilk are fantastic when they're right. Arguably they're better than their contemporary counterparts because they are relatively simple and have a pleasing material solidity. They also reek with class, whereas new metal is a tiny bit vulgar these days.
Now, it makes no sense to buy one, spend the money on getting it right (they always need money spending on them to get right) and then sell it. You will never recover your investment. But it is a different thing if the intention is to keep it and to use it. It becomes cheap first class motoring.
The longer you keep it, the cheaper it gets. Suppose you buy for £3k and spend £5k getting it right. Sell in 6 months for £3k and it's madness. Sell in 12 months for £3k and it's still pretty painful (about as painful as running a new Focus for a year). Sell in 24 months for £3k, however, and it begins to look good, £2,500 per annum for 2 years' quality motoring. Sell in 36 months for £3k and it's starting to look very cheap indeed. Never sell and it's brilliant: you can start again and accumulate a collection of "classics".
Of course it will need on-going repair and maintenance, but so will any car over 3 years' old. The only way to motor without such expense is to buy new. A new Lexus? A new S-Class? Heck, even a new Ford Focus looks like financial suicide compared to running a quality barge.
Shame it is a Lexus and not a W140, though.
Cars of this ilk are fantastic when they're right. Arguably they're better than their contemporary counterparts because they are relatively simple and have a pleasing material solidity. They also reek with class, whereas new metal is a tiny bit vulgar these days.
Now, it makes no sense to buy one, spend the money on getting it right (they always need money spending on them to get right) and then sell it. You will never recover your investment. But it is a different thing if the intention is to keep it and to use it. It becomes cheap first class motoring.
The longer you keep it, the cheaper it gets. Suppose you buy for £3k and spend £5k getting it right. Sell in 6 months for £3k and it's madness. Sell in 12 months for £3k and it's still pretty painful (about as painful as running a new Focus for a year). Sell in 24 months for £3k, however, and it begins to look good, £2,500 per annum for 2 years' quality motoring. Sell in 36 months for £3k and it's starting to look very cheap indeed. Never sell and it's brilliant: you can start again and accumulate a collection of "classics".
Of course it will need on-going repair and maintenance, but so will any car over 3 years' old. The only way to motor without such expense is to buy new. A new Lexus? A new S-Class? Heck, even a new Ford Focus looks like financial suicide compared to running a quality barge.
Shame it is a Lexus and not a W140, though.
I find it odd that some people on here are willing to bang on about how a car that was expensive new will have expensive running costs, but then criticise when somebody actually spends a lot of money relative to the current value of the car to keep it on the road in tip top condition.
Sure we'd all love to have the money to buy these things new and not give two hoots about the depreciation, but the reality is that most people don't have 50 or 60K to throw away like that.
I have an old 5 series and have spent pretty much the same on it that I paid for it two years ago on repairs and servicing. I couldn't afford to buy a new 5 series, but I do have enough disposable income to spend money on it when it's needed. I feel like I am driving a semi luxury motor for a lot less than somebody who bought a new Astra or some such thing.
I think what Garlick has done is about as PH as it gets - keep it up!
Sure we'd all love to have the money to buy these things new and not give two hoots about the depreciation, but the reality is that most people don't have 50 or 60K to throw away like that.
I have an old 5 series and have spent pretty much the same on it that I paid for it two years ago on repairs and servicing. I couldn't afford to buy a new 5 series, but I do have enough disposable income to spend money on it when it's needed. I feel like I am driving a semi luxury motor for a lot less than somebody who bought a new Astra or some such thing.
I think what Garlick has done is about as PH as it gets - keep it up!
Back in the office now.
J4CKO said:
It is quality engineering, the engine and box sound like they are ok, the body/interior straight then you cant begrudge the old woofer a few ball joints and the like.
Everything else is great. A regularly serviced and recent belt-changed V8 that is quiet ion tickover and quick too. The box changes well and the interior/ leather is immaculate. All electrics work and all the toys still do their job. The climate is ice cold too. Now I have a great car that is so nice to drive.davidjpowell said:
If Garlick's happy that's all that counts... But I would ask, does he regret letting the 124 go in favour of the Lexus, obviously in hindsight as that's all he has.
Still got it, but it's for sale. I love driving it still and it remains tight and creak free. Will I miss it? Yes, of course but I am enjoying the large-engined, leather covered waftiness that the Lexus offers. Different cars really, but both are much loved. confused_buyer said:
Only comment is that for the money you should have gone for a Mk 4. They are a significant upgrade in a number of ways (far more than the light facelift would suggest) and are the best car Lexus ever made.
Had I known I would be spending money I would have bought a later car, sadly I didn't realise at the time and had planned to spend nothing more than the purchase price. I might have done a lot of things differently with the benefit of hindsight but too late to look back now. I saw a 460 on an 03 plate for £3500 the other day with FSH and 180k, but as Garlick says you don't know what ur going to spend and sometimes when ur in a hole you just keep digging or get out.
I had a 5yr old 430 for a couple of years and it never went wrong, servcing was cheap, customer service amazing and was a stunning long distance cruiser (got 30mpg) and could outdrag most things, but I did lost over 7k in depreciation, so you makes ur choice and all that..........
I had a 5yr old 430 for a couple of years and it never went wrong, servcing was cheap, customer service amazing and was a stunning long distance cruiser (got 30mpg) and could outdrag most things, but I did lost over 7k in depreciation, so you makes ur choice and all that..........
Spending £1000+ may sound daft and in some ways it is unless, however, you plan to keep it. Then, over the ownership period and miles the cost reduces and at least you've got something properly sorted.
At least with a Lexus you stand a chance of spending 50% of the cars cost getting it sorted and then getting 80000 more trouble free miles out of it where as with most luxo barges there will be another £1000 bill in a couple of months time.....
At least with a Lexus you stand a chance of spending 50% of the cars cost getting it sorted and then getting 80000 more trouble free miles out of it where as with most luxo barges there will be another £1000 bill in a couple of months time.....
E30M3SE said:
How did it pass a MOT? 
Garlick said:
I did wonder that myself to be honest. Seller says it wasn't picked up and I believe him. I am surprised though.
As this was my car, I felt a bit sick to be honest. First and foremost, the last person on earth I would sell a car that I knew had issues would be a Head Honcho at one of the world's most popular car forums!More to the point, it was my daily driver with my wife and toddler in it so absolutely no way would I have had them in something that I had known to had issues.
The MOT was done at a main dealership - not some backyard joint or an MOT on the sly - on the reasoning that if there was something at issue they would find it. It has also had brake work done by a main dealership, who collected the car and had been driving it and again, nothing was noted. It had a full Lexus history and for the asking price, I thought it was a very good price. On that, I recall the thread where the question of how would a deposit be left, taking away V5 etc - it was done on a handshake and nothing else and I continued to get calls that weeked. I had suspected many some PH'ers were 'testing' to see whether I would change my mind and back out for more money, faster sale (I was taking a risk that Garlick would change his mind too!) but word is word.
BTW, if that fellow from North London is a member on here and called me on the Sunday and was ranting and carrying on that I should sell to him then swearing at me when I said that was effectively sold but would call him if Garlick pulled out, you need to wash your mouth out.
Was it a good car? Definitely. Do I regret selling it? Actually I do, but then I have a soft spot for the LS's.
Now that the work has been done, I don't think he has overcapitalised as the LS400's are going up in value for the decent ones with lowish miles and..this is crucial...the proper maintenance. Those ones sell very quickly, the 'bargain barges' for £900 just pass from owner to owner on a steady decline of things failing till fit only for scrap.
The LS's, A8's, 7 series, W140's that you see pop up in the threads are all cheap to be buy and people fall overthemselves as to what a stellar bargain something is but always always not thinking about the maintenance or upkeep. With these flagships, and that is what they were, there are two routes to maintaining them: el cheapo parts and backyard garages and hope they last OR using the right parts and the right workshops.
I was not keen on the Mk IV as more than a few in the Lexus world including garages had said that the MkIII was the best of the bunch.
hora said:
For this reason I think its safe to say you are trustworthy on this (not that I would doubt etc as I don't know you).
In addition, if you did much of your mileage around town recently as this developed you wouldn't know.
I bought a Subaru Legacy Sportswagon from a serving Police Officer who had all the bills, every itemised receipt and on the morning of the sale had the pads replaced as they felt 'light' spending £200 at the main dealer.
Two weeks later the Air/fuel sensor went (no warning light etc before) which cost me £470.
Thanks.In addition, if you did much of your mileage around town recently as this developed you wouldn't know.
I bought a Subaru Legacy Sportswagon from a serving Police Officer who had all the bills, every itemised receipt and on the morning of the sale had the pads replaced as they felt 'light' spending £200 at the main dealer.
Two weeks later the Air/fuel sensor went (no warning light etc before) which cost me £470.
It was used around London (I have rocks in my head given what I use to drive around the city.....glug glug goes the petrol!) which is the perfect way to use a v8 in the time honoured PH fashion :-)
My current S600 was bought from a fellow MB nutter - a fortune in receipts, specialist history etc, had had a recent service etc - a week later it was up on ramps with the rear suspension dropped for a fair % of the purchase price being expended on the SLS system.
The only way around this - which are simply mechanical parts that fail as the car gets older - is to buy new. Thankfully, the way the LS's and W140's are built, even years later they still seem 'like new' so the tens of thousands of pounds of a difference between the new price and used price for a car that feels pretty much as it was new covers a lot of upkeep and still 'ahead' on a £/value comparison.
At least that is what I tell myself as I hide the servicing receipts from my wife. Yes dear, they do full rebuilds of the self-levelling suspension system on a S600 for £99 plus VAT. Have you not seen the ads on the telly?
- grin*
Garlick said:
2 x rear dampers
2 x hub carriers
2 x anti-roll bar links
2 x rear wheel bearings
4 x oil seals
2 x deflectors
1 x OSR upper wishbone
2 x front control arm bushes
That's over £1600 at Lexus prices and no pattern parts are available.
At least half of the parts on that list are available 'aftermarket'.2 x hub carriers
2 x anti-roll bar links
2 x rear wheel bearings
4 x oil seals
2 x deflectors
1 x OSR upper wishbone
2 x front control arm bushes
That's over £1600 at Lexus prices and no pattern parts are available.
skoff said:
I find it odd that some people on here are willing to bang on about how a car that was expensive new will have expensive running costs, but then criticise when somebody actually spends a lot of money relative to the current value of the car to keep it on the road in tip top condition.
Sure we'd all love to have the money to buy these things new and not give two hoots about the depreciation, but the reality is that most people don't have 50 or 60K to throw away like that.
I have an old 5 series and have spent pretty much the same on it that I paid for it two years ago on repairs and servicing. I couldn't afford to buy a new 5 series, but I do have enough disposable income to spend money on it when it's needed. I feel like I am driving a semi luxury motor for a lot less than somebody who bought a new Astra or some such thing.
I think what Garlick has done is about as PH as it gets - keep it up!
I don't think anyone is banging on, some people just think about things differently. In my post I applauded Garlick for doing something which is the essence of PH, however I also commented that if it where my money, I wouldn't have spent the purchase price of the car again putting it right immediately after I bought. Sure we'd all love to have the money to buy these things new and not give two hoots about the depreciation, but the reality is that most people don't have 50 or 60K to throw away like that.
I have an old 5 series and have spent pretty much the same on it that I paid for it two years ago on repairs and servicing. I couldn't afford to buy a new 5 series, but I do have enough disposable income to spend money on it when it's needed. I feel like I am driving a semi luxury motor for a lot less than somebody who bought a new Astra or some such thing.
I think what Garlick has done is about as PH as it gets - keep it up!
I also agree that buying an older luxury car is much more appealing to me then buying a brand new Astra which will be worth about 50p within a couple of years, however it's all relative. If I bought a £10k luxury car and it needed a couple of £k's worth of work then I think it would be worth it. I however wouldn't spend £3k fixing a car worth only £2K. Not saying it's not right and if Garlick or anyone else wants to do this then who am I to tell them not to but for me personally it doesn't make financial sense.
I am a few months into this barge ownership lark, and it maybe interesting for some to hear my experience thus far. I splashed out £2k and some change on an A8 Audi in the barge thread, I looked at Lexi, Merc, 7 series and was very keen on a 540i as well. The Ronin mobile had a decent service history although the last two years was patchy, receipts for engine and gearbox oil changes but not much else. Exterior is in good condition, some scratches etc. and interior is very good, barring a little wear on the driver bolster. Everything electric works as it should, and engine, drivetrain and suspension is 100%. I had a major service done by a specialist as a precaution, including brake fluid etc. Set me back £400 or so. The only item noted is corrosion on a junction box where the battery in the boot feeds a cable forward, otherwise sound all round.
Thus far, it has been a complete pleasure to fire the old girl up and burble round, supremely comfortable, it certainly likes a tipple or 10 of the refineries finest, but once out on the highway, 26+ Mpg is achievable with some restrain and cruise control. I expect expense maintaining a 14 year old car, and the largest of which is potentially the gearbox, which in this model, seems to have a affinity for self destructing.
I am pretty much sold on bargenomics, she looks a lot classier than a 2k car really should, and the fun to be with a large V8 and 4 wheel drive is certainly not to underestimated. If it decides to fall apart and breathe it's last breath, take the hit and scrap, I will only lose a few months depreciation on a new vehicle at worst, while having enjoyed the barge experience immensely.
Thus far, it has been a complete pleasure to fire the old girl up and burble round, supremely comfortable, it certainly likes a tipple or 10 of the refineries finest, but once out on the highway, 26+ Mpg is achievable with some restrain and cruise control. I expect expense maintaining a 14 year old car, and the largest of which is potentially the gearbox, which in this model, seems to have a affinity for self destructing.
I am pretty much sold on bargenomics, she looks a lot classier than a 2k car really should, and the fun to be with a large V8 and 4 wheel drive is certainly not to underestimated. If it decides to fall apart and breathe it's last breath, take the hit and scrap, I will only lose a few months depreciation on a new vehicle at worst, while having enjoyed the barge experience immensely.
Edited by Traveller on Thursday 5th May 15:43
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff