Has your 996 or 997 engine had a major rebuild?

[Globs]

ForzaWhitesGen2 said:

IF IT WAS..... and with a brand like Porsche..... it would have been extremely well publicised & dragged
through the numerous motoring press & wider media...

This reminds me of the Euro....
People knew it was never going to work, but up to about 2008 did you EVER hear the issue being "extremely well publicised & dragged through the numerous financial press & wider media"??

And the CDS market.
And private pensions.
And the national debt.
And immigration (sporadic DailyMail excepted).

You'll be amazed how selective the media are, it's almost like they just want to sell magazines and don't really get excited by reliability statistics...

[Gary11]

HoHoHo said:

Seems to have the information to hand.

FWIW We discussed this on another thread,cars offered for sale are a small percentage of overall cars owned and enjoyed,however call it coincidence quite a lot of cars we inspect have had past present or potentially future faults,to be representative of the real world numbers is difficult IMO its like saying to someone like Baz@ Hartec every car you repair has a new engine thats his buisness!With regard to the OPC claim of not being a problem I saw a pile of engines earlier in the year(I counted 17 units) in an OPC,even when we had the nicasil failure (Jaguar BMW) issue in the mid 90s it was not as bad (and I have to say was better administered and rectified)and wasnt latent engine failure occuring randomly due to poor design and engineering.Thats the issue for every story I hear suggesting certain methods of driving or servicing,not over revving, ect ect the experts rebuilders will tell you the opposite can occour it just is too random to call with many failures at very low mileage.We are even getting reports of late 2.9 Boxsters with scored bores (a much simpler unit).
I cant think of any other quality manufacturer with an engine unit(s) displaying (quoted on a US website)16 possible modes of failure!
G

[HoHoHo]

Gary11 said:

HoHoHo said:

Seems to have the information to hand.

FWIW We discussed this on another thread,cars offered for sale are a small percentage of overall cars owned and enjoyed,however call it coincidence quite a lot of cars we inspect have had past present or potentially future faults,to be representative of the real world numbers is difficult IMO its like saying to someone like Baz@ Hartec every car you repair has a new engine thats his buisness!With regard to the OPC claim of not being a problem I saw a pile of engines earlier in the year(I counted 17 units) in an OPC,even when we had the nicasil failure (Jaguar BMW) issue in the mid 90s it was not as bad (and I have to say was better administered and rectified)and wasnt latent engine failure occuring randomly due to poor design and engineering.Thats the issue for every story I hear suggesting certain methods of driving or servicing,not over revving, ect ect the experts rebuilders will tell you the opposite can occour it just is too random to call with many failures at very low mileage.We are even getting reports of late 2.9 Boxsters with scored bores (a much simpler unit).
I cant think of any other quality manufacturer with an engine unit(s) displaying (quoted on a US website)16 possible modes of failure!
G

To try and make some sense of your post, you're saying it's only because you're inspecting cars that faults are being noted, the rest of us who never change them are running around with cars that have the fault, yet are still to be inspected and diagnosed and our engine is going to go bang?

I'll ask again - please post the 'information' you have, because you can chuck as many figures around in a post until you are blue in the face, but until you can substantiate your claim, it means nothing.

[Globs]

HoHoHo said:

I'll ask again - please post the 'information' you have, because you can chuck as many figures around in a post until you are blue in the face, but until you can substantiate your claim, it means nothing.

What type of grade information are you seeking?
I think only Porsche would have the answers you seek, you could write to them - nothing to lose!

[HoHoHo]

Globs said:

HoHoHo said:

I'll ask again - please post the 'information' you have, because you can chuck as many figures around in a post until you are blue in the face, but until you can substantiate your claim, it means nothing.

What type of grade information are you seeking?
I think only Porsche would have the answers you seek, you could write to them - nothing to lose!

Gary11 has suggested as part of his argument he has written information that is very interesting, I've no idea what it's about but I'm interested in what 'it' has to say.

So can he please post said 'information'!

[mollytherocker]

Guys

I think we are getting hung up here on the lack of available detailed information. My view, is that we are never going to see any substantive proof that can be deemed as a good sample. I am not saying that there is'nt any, its just that I dont think that it will be published for a number of reasons.

Does that mean there is no problem and that we should all celebrate and rush out to buy all of these £9k 996's? Thats your decision.

A murderer walks the streets a free man with a lack of solid proof. He is therefore totally innocent.

So the 996/997 engine is just fine, right?

MTR

Edited by mollytherocker on Monday 28th November 21:17

[Gary11]

HoHoHo said:

Gary11 has suggested as part of his argument he has written information that is very interesting, I've no idea what it's about but I'm interested in what 'it' has to say.

So can he please post said 'information'!

I did not wish to enter an "argument" all Im saying is there "is" a failure problem with M96/7 units,unfortunately its very unusual just to have one mode of failure and escape with repairing that defect only,the catastopic way the failures occour ie a period of owner denial coupled with a continuation of use means these units mostly have to be completely rebuilt hence the large repair cost,there is no cheap way of repairing scored bores cracked liners ect ect most people dealing in and around these cars are aware of these issues,I cannot publish a copy of client reports that would be wrong and skewed as a representation,as I said I have evidence there are problems there is no doubt of that,you dont see many other engine rebuilders set up a hugely expensive engineering operations just to repair one marques design flaws,please use the net to get a true picture but dont base your opinions either way on one particular poster whos mate has one thats fine or has owned one or two himself,there are several rebuilders/remanufacturers in the US that are happy to discuss failures and causes as Im sure would Baz,how he gets the time I dont know!
But credit to him for doing so as no one else seems to be doing much to help.

[Gary11]

HoHoHo said:

To try and make some sense of your post, you're saying it's only because you're inspecting cars that faults are being noted, the rest of us who never change them are running around with cars that have the fault, yet are still to be inspected and diagnosed and our engine is going to go bang?

I'll ask again - please post the 'information' you have, because you can chuck as many figures around in a post until you are blue in the face, but until you can substantiate your claim, it means nothing.

Ok so the new rules are we cannot post on here without qualifying every addition or opinion without documentation,I am happy for you to view my postings as meaning nothing,hence its been a pleasure.

[HoHoHo]

Gary11 said:

Ok so the new rules are we cannot post on here without qualifying every addition or opinion without documentation,I am happy for you to view my postings as meaning nothing,hence its been a pleasure.

No, but if you're going to spout on about how you've got 'written evidence' and use that in a post to defend your position then simply put your money where your mouth is and post it. If you're not going to show us then don't quote it, simply because I could equally suggest I have evidence and written documentation that suggests 80,000 cars are absolutely fine, but I'm not going to share it with you . I'm sure you can scan and erase the private details of those concerned on the documents and we can then all see what's happening.

[ForzaWhitesGen2]

For me (and it's just my opinion ) you have to come up with a reasonable % or value of total failures...

Clearly all of the posters (myself included) on here cannot do that..... Some of the other posters are extremely knowledgeable, given their businesses, about engine failures, issues & weaknesses....

Some 996's are now approaching 14 years old... some 997's are tad over 7 years now.......

UK is a large market for Porsche (behind US & Germany I think). I standby my viewpoint that there isn't a problem with the engines in the 911 models quoted above.....

I guess the crux of the 'debate' is what % of failures v numbers producted represents the word 'problem'?

To me some of the posts/threads on here would put me off (if I didn't know better) from buying a Porsche 996 or 997.....

But for what its worth if I end up with my current 997 being high mileage etc, then I'd look at some of the mods quoted by one or more respected Independants.....

[uktrailmonster]

I know quite a few people in the trade (Porsche specialists) and when I was in the market for a 996 they all warned me of the potential engine issues. Not scaremongering, just sensible advice. The percentage of actual failures may well be very small (who knows?) but in practice I noticed plenty of cars for sale with major engine rebuilds or replacement engines due to these various problems. I eventually bought a car that had suffered from scored bores (at 51K miles) and was rebuilt by Hartech. The OPC involved denied there was even a problem with the engine, even though it was smoking like a chimney and drinking oil. In fact the very last place I would expect to get a truthful answer on the failure rates is an OPC. It's really not in their best interest to tell the truth. Their standard patter is usually along the lines of "yes some of the very early 3.4s had a few teething troubles as it was Porsche's first water cooled 911 blah blah blah, but everything was cured on the 3.6".

[Gary11]

uktrailmonster said:

I know quite a few people in the trade (Porsche specialists) and when I was in the market for a 996 they all warned me of the potential engine issues. Not scaremongering, just sensible advice. The percentage of actual failures may well be very small (who knows?) but in practice I noticed plenty of cars for sale with major engine rebuilds or replacement engines due to these various problems. I eventually bought a car that had suffered from scored bores (at 51K miles) and was rebuilt by Hartech. The OPC involved denied there was even a problem with the engine, even though it was smoking like a chimney and drinking oil. In fact the very last place I would expect to get a truthful answer on the failure rates is an OPC. It's really not in their best interest to tell the truth. Their standard patter is usually along the lines of "yes some of the very early 3.4s had a few teething troubles as it was Porsche's first water cooled 911 blah blah blah, but everything was cured on the 3.6".

Pretty much the thread in a nutshell!

[Gary11]

HoHoHo said:

No, but if you're going to spout on about how you've got 'written evidence' and use that in a post to defend your position then simply put your money where your mouth is and post it. If you're not going to show us then don't quote it, simply because I could equally suggest I have evidence and written documentation that suggests 80,000 cars are absolutely fine, but I'm not going to share it with you . I'm sure you can scan and erase the private details of those concerned on the documents and we can then all see what's happening.

I dont have to show you any thing and I can say I have evidence beacause I have. Any of these replies posted by the trade are ultimately to help retail user/buyers,I would rather not be pulled into your pedantic argument so this will be my last reply to you. I am happy with my experiance and knowledge though still learn every day, and am also happy to help with sharing knowledge to help porsche enthusiasts (which we all are in the end)
Perhaps then in your "proven" word the next engine rebuilder to post on here should be asked to provide documentary evidence before he is belived? To me your introverted cynisim is not based on from what I read any real trade experiance.
Thank you for your reply.

[HoHoHo]

Gary11 said:

I dont have to show you any thing and I can say I have evidence beacause I have. Any of these replies posted by the trade are ultimately to help retail user/buyers,I would rather not be pulled into your pedantic argument so this will be my last reply to you. I am happy with my experiance and knowledge though still learn every day, and am also happy to help with sharing knowledge to help porsche enthusiasts (which we all are in the end)
Perhaps then in your "proven" word the next engine rebuilder to post on here should be asked to provide documentary evidence before he is belived? To me your introverted cynisim is not based on from what I read any real trade experiance.
Thank you for your reply.

OK - let's agree to disagree, I'm not on a mission to have a bun fight

[ForzaWhitesGen2]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

After visiting Baz yesterday and looking at a number of 997 engines stripped down and being rebuilt
my head is no longer in the sand.....

However I still maintain that failures versus the numbers produced is a very very small percentage....

..Now where is my Porsche Warranty booklet...

[ponhead]

All cars suffer with generic problems, Porsche are no different. The 996 and 7's do suffer with pick up on cyl 6 closest to the tranny. The fault to overcome is around £4500 to solve for relign on 5 & 6 normally. The Boxters with the same engine also suffer form the same issue. But then thats owning sports cars right....? !

[Gary11]

ponhead said:

All cars suffer with generic problems, Porsche are no different. The 996 and 7's do suffer with pick up on cyl 6 closest to the tranny. The fault to overcome is around £4500 to solve for relign on 5 & 6 normally. The Boxters with the same engine also suffer form the same issue. But then thats owning sports cars right....? !

Very informative and philosophical post.....(no4?)blank profile hmmm.

[Xstyle]

ForzaWhitesGen2 said:

However I still maintain that failures versus the numbers produced is a very very small percentage....

..Now where is my Porsche Warranty booklet...

On that note, please all see here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

How many of you have a 996 or a 997 without a warranty?
and di the 3.6 and 3.8 engines suffer equally?

[hartech]

OK Boxsters don't suffer the same problem at all and it is not just no 6 either.

I will soon be updating section 6 of our buyers guide to provide more evidence and arguments about the source of the problem and solutions etc but meanwhile - please - no more of this misleading nonsense.

Baz

[Stevorocket]

As a GT3 owner I continue to be impressed with the sheer brilliance of this car over my 4.5 years of ownership - Italy, Hungary, France, Germany, Belgium, Holland, Austria have all fallen to its sword.

Imola, Spa, Monza, Nurburgring, Mas du Clos, Pau, Hungaroring, Oulton, Donington, Goodwood, Silverstone, Cadwell, have all felt the heat of its exhaust fumes!

The emissions on its original cats are so low that it continues to purify the air it breathes.

No failures, no dramas, never stranded.

Awesome.