3.2 Supersport myths
Discussion
I am sick of reading adverts for 3.2 Supersports with inaccurate suggestions about how many were shipped to the UK. 52 is a popular one up to 200ish. These myths, I believe derive from an article by a PCGB big cheese a while ago, and the fact that 'no production figures are available'. I don't buy it. If there were only 52 then why are there always some for sale? I have counted many more over the last 3 years It's a real bug bear for me and even started emailing dealers at one point.
IMHO Norbert at http://www.turbo-look.de/911-en.php has been the world authority on these cars for a long time and I have no reason to doubt him. Admittedly I am motivated partly out of bitterness as I love these cars and nearly bought one for £16,500 (which needed some work) 3 years ago. Now of course they are between £27,000 for a garish nasty to £60,000 for a mint!! More than a real turbo!
Anyway, yes they are rare but not that rare...from 1984-89 there were:
GB Coupe 223
GB Targa 201
GB Cab 205
GB Speedster 66
So, you can say "one of only 201 targas supplied to the UK" which sounds good and is ACCURATE, or "one of 695 supersports...", etc.
Can I start a revolution here please? Spread the word because its out of order asking crazy money for a rare car that is not quite so rare.
Rant over.
IMHO Norbert at http://www.turbo-look.de/911-en.php has been the world authority on these cars for a long time and I have no reason to doubt him. Admittedly I am motivated partly out of bitterness as I love these cars and nearly bought one for £16,500 (which needed some work) 3 years ago. Now of course they are between £27,000 for a garish nasty to £60,000 for a mint!! More than a real turbo!
Anyway, yes they are rare but not that rare...from 1984-89 there were:
GB Coupe 223
GB Targa 201
GB Cab 205
GB Speedster 66
So, you can say "one of only 201 targas supplied to the UK" which sounds good and is ACCURATE, or "one of 695 supersports...", etc.
Can I start a revolution here please? Spread the word because its out of order asking crazy money for a rare car that is not quite so rare.
Rant over.
Edited by chrisgaia on Saturday 29th March 18:12
supersport said:
That register isn't completely accurate as my car is listed twice and one of them is on Oz. Still not sure where he got the pictures from as they were taken by me.
Still a good resource though.
Do you think Norbert's figures are from the register? I do not think they are. I think he has official figures there...I may be wrong. It is unlikely that that everyone SSE owner would have registered their supersort, which would most probably mean there were many, many more M491s than those figures (as well as the duplicates)...Still a good resource though.
I emailed Norbert for his right to reply and he just did...
Hi Chis!
I´m not registerd to pistonheads so please mail my answer ( perhaps corrected to better english :-))
My counts don´t depend on the cars on the register as there are not more than 25% listed ...
Perhaps some are twice and many are not verified but a short email to myself will correct this. I wonder why people do not bother? I can tell you is that it was a hell of work to come this far and I really appreciate help from other owners ...
As I have access to the Porsche database and i´m able to scan for any ever given option-code, i was able to figure out the true count of M491 cars worldwide – you find this list on my site. Any shown number is verified by VIN and not one car that came up over the years did not fit my lists. So i have not one single reason not to believe that i know any ever build up M491 car worldwide!
The quoted UK counts are a joke! That is plain to see when look at the registered cars on my site and the supporting evidence provided for the figures on the above link
all the Best from Germany
Norbert
Hi Chis!
I´m not registerd to pistonheads so please mail my answer ( perhaps corrected to better english :-))
My counts don´t depend on the cars on the register as there are not more than 25% listed ...
Perhaps some are twice and many are not verified but a short email to myself will correct this. I wonder why people do not bother? I can tell you is that it was a hell of work to come this far and I really appreciate help from other owners ...
As I have access to the Porsche database and i´m able to scan for any ever given option-code, i was able to figure out the true count of M491 cars worldwide – you find this list on my site. Any shown number is verified by VIN and not one car that came up over the years did not fit my lists. So i have not one single reason not to believe that i know any ever build up M491 car worldwide!
The quoted UK counts are a joke! That is plain to see when look at the registered cars on my site and the supporting evidence provided for the figures on the above link
all the Best from Germany
Norbert
Poorer but you're having more fun! You could probably change it back when you want to get shot of it and still have it pay for itself!
Yeah this whole value skyrocketing is spoiling the fun in my opinion. It makes many of us more conscious of doing too many miles.
To jump to an extreme example, one of my patients has an 860 Monza...that he races!! That's the spirit, if you can afford it!
Yeah this whole value skyrocketing is spoiling the fun in my opinion. It makes many of us more conscious of doing too many miles.
To jump to an extreme example, one of my patients has an 860 Monza...that he races!! That's the spirit, if you can afford it!
No Chris we crossed that line many years ago. A line you cross that prevents you ever going back. Sunroof removed and carefully welded up. Cage is fully welded in. Shell completely bare metaled by hand. Plenty of stiffening in the shell. Back dated heating system. The list goes on and on and is endless.
To give you an idea of what was involved. To convert it back to its original guards red with black leather piped red the car would owe me £100K. They are a little way off making those sorts of numbers.
To give you an idea of what was involved. To convert it back to its original guards red with black leather piped red the car would owe me £100K. They are a little way off making those sorts of numbers.
graemel said:
No Chris we crossed that line many years ago. A line you cross that prevents you ever going back. Sunroof removed and carefully welded up. Cage is fully welded in. Shell completely bare metaled by hand. Plenty of stiffening in the shell. Back dated heating system. The list goes on and on and is endless.
To give you an idea of what was involved. To convert it back to its original guards red with black leather piped red the car would owe me £100K. They are a little way off making those sorts of numbers.
Fantastic! I bet she's a hoot to drive! Original Supersports really are about the aesthetics, looking as pretty as a turbo but for people like me who would end up in a hedge too often with the real thing! To give you an idea of what was involved. To convert it back to its original guards red with black leather piped red the car would owe me £100K. They are a little way off making those sorts of numbers.
g7jhp said:
Prefer the narrow body on the coupe (less weight). Although the turbo look does give presence from a looks perspective!
That look is my all time fave 911 look, even though I am buying a 993. I'd go as far as to say my fave all time car look I think. I think its my age, I was a young teen wehn they were around! The width and brakes should make them handle better though, no? If a bit slower. The brakes must be goos as well. A lot of people get them to avoid troublesome 80s turbos, mega lags and hedges.
Supersport is the most over rated car in the IB cars.
Well over priced, slow/heavy.
Buy a 3.2c narrow body or a proper 930.
All these Targa's "one of 75 twoddle" are just chancers when you see them at £30k+ utter madness.
Sure the prices have risen due to the fact that there's loads of crap out there, so good ones will command a premium. What makes me laugh is private people and dealers for that advertising IB cars with massive miles hiding a multitude of sins for £20+k most have rust somewhere hidden, and can eat up serious money in just replacing B posts/Kidney bowls alone.
Well over priced, slow/heavy.
Buy a 3.2c narrow body or a proper 930.
All these Targa's "one of 75 twoddle" are just chancers when you see them at £30k+ utter madness.
Sure the prices have risen due to the fact that there's loads of crap out there, so good ones will command a premium. What makes me laugh is private people and dealers for that advertising IB cars with massive miles hiding a multitude of sins for £20+k most have rust somewhere hidden, and can eat up serious money in just replacing B posts/Kidney bowls alone.
ClassicCarMad said:
Supersport is the most over rated car in the IB cars.
Well over priced, slow/heavy.
Buy a 3.2c narrow body or a proper 930.
All these Targa's "one of 75 twoddle" are just chancers when you see them at £30k+ utter madness.
Sure the prices have risen due to the fact that there's loads of crap out there, so good ones will command a premium. What makes me laugh is private people and dealers for that advertising IB cars with massive miles hiding a multitude of sins for £20+k most have rust somewhere hidden, and can eat up serious money in just replacing B posts/Kidney bowls alone.
There has been a clear place for them in the market though. People who cannot afford a 930 or don't want a car that will bite you but are crazy about the looks. I really wanted one as I was told the Turbo was a nightmare to maintain and it was out of my reach financially. Well over priced, slow/heavy.
Buy a 3.2c narrow body or a proper 930.
All these Targa's "one of 75 twoddle" are just chancers when you see them at £30k+ utter madness.
Sure the prices have risen due to the fact that there's loads of crap out there, so good ones will command a premium. What makes me laugh is private people and dealers for that advertising IB cars with massive miles hiding a multitude of sins for £20+k most have rust somewhere hidden, and can eat up serious money in just replacing B posts/Kidney bowls alone.
I have a real soft spot for SSEs and nearly bagged one for £16500 a few years back. However the prices now are mad, more than a Turbo!! I like SSEs but would rather have a 930 on any day of any week. The whole point of them was that they were beautiful, easier to handle and arguably more reliable.
ClassicCarMad said:
Supersport is the most over rated car in the IB cars.
Well over priced, slow/heavy.
Buy a 3.2c narrow body or a proper 930.
All these Targa's "one of 75 twoddle" are just chancers when you see them at £30k+ utter madness.
Sure the prices have risen due to the fact that there's loads of crap out there, so good ones will command a premium. What makes me laugh is private people and dealers for that advertising IB cars with massive miles hiding a multitude of sins for £20+k most have rust somewhere hidden, and can eat up serious money in just replacing B posts/Kidney bowls alone.
Completely agree. Having owned two 3.2 Carrera's (NB not SS) I like most other owners have had to fight the rust. The amount of tarted up rubbish on the market at present for top money is a joke.Well over priced, slow/heavy.
Buy a 3.2c narrow body or a proper 930.
All these Targa's "one of 75 twoddle" are just chancers when you see them at £30k+ utter madness.
Sure the prices have risen due to the fact that there's loads of crap out there, so good ones will command a premium. What makes me laugh is private people and dealers for that advertising IB cars with massive miles hiding a multitude of sins for £20+k most have rust somewhere hidden, and can eat up serious money in just replacing B posts/Kidney bowls alone.
Good cars often require work, bad cars are ruinous. They look great but rust from the inside out!
There are a considerable amount of dealers holding onto stock at inflated prices in the hope of turning a quick buck. These aren’t moving.
There are other lots of alternative 911 at £20-25k which are less hassle so the buying pool is limited to the committed enthusiast or speculator.
There is a very clear place for them and I love em.
I don't think most people would notice the speed/weight difference between SSE and a nb. It is less than a passenger/luggage.
You say the same about any classic car with respect to rust. The older they are the more likely there is to be a problem. I do agree that anyone buying a classic Porsche should have this in mind as it can be expensive to put right.
I don't think most people would notice the speed/weight difference between SSE and a nb. It is less than a passenger/luggage.
You say the same about any classic car with respect to rust. The older they are the more likely there is to be a problem. I do agree that anyone buying a classic Porsche should have this in mind as it can be expensive to put right.
ClassicCarMad said:
Supersport is the most over rated car in the IB cars.
Well over priced, slow/heavy.
Buy a 3.2c narrow body or a proper 930.
I have to disagree. The weight penalty is not that great. What it gives up in nimbleness over a narrow bodied 3.2 running on 15" wheels it more than makes up for in foot print and brakes. When you take into account the difference in performance between various 3.2 engines it is inmaterial Well over priced, slow/heavy.
Buy a 3.2c narrow body or a proper 930.
Edited by graemel on Tuesday 8th April 08:49
graemel said:
I have to disagree. The weight penalty is not that great. What it gives up in nimbleness over a narrow bodied 3.2 running on 15" wheels it more than makes up for in foot print and brakes. When you take into account the difference in performance between various 3.2 engines it is inmaterial
Such a shame they are now extortionate. I think they were a perfect buy in the market position of a few years back...£17,500-22,000 but this is crazy...http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-pre-89/porsche-911-super-sport-2dr-factory-supersport-great-car/2132103?isexperiment=trueEdited by graemel on Tuesday 8th April 08:49
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