Joining the 996 engine rebuild club

[m444ttb]

Well this was a post i hoped not to make. I bought my 89k mile 2002 Carrera 4 from a local garage back in late November. I'd noticied it I didn't use the car for over two weeks it would puff some blue smoke on start up. Autofarm checked the bores and they were scoring free and more frequent usage never saw it really return.

The car has always had a little oil usage but since I've had an oil change done the rate seems to have gone up. Based on Autofarm's findings at the time (condition of the used oil) I suspect it had some thicker and quite old stuff in it. I popped out the other evening to enjoy some country lates with another Pork owning PHer and this saw it use a noticeable quantity of oil. All in over 450 miles since Autofarm serviced it to when i dropped it off for some other bits to be sorted it used the full range on the dip stick, which i think is 1.5L. Clearly things aren't good. Autofarm have confirmed that it has some leaky piston rings, particularly on cyclinder 5 (on the right bank i think) and th e(new) plugs were quite black and the new tailpipe I have on the right side (exit for left bank - the less leaky side!) was blackening nicely after my evening joy ride.

I'm not sure quite where i'm going with this post so you'll forgive the rambling. I love driving the car, although i was considering selling, but think i'm going to have to suck it up and get a loan to pay for a proper rebuild that will take care of all the 'usual' 996 issues plus some service items such as clutch and water pump. Then keep the thing a long time to justify it.

I'm telling myself that in 12 months time when it's all paid for I'll be able to sleep easy not worring about the engine going bang at any moment but I can't get the thought of spending more than half the current value of the car on the engine out of my head. Not to mention all the other things I could spend that sort of cash on

Edited by m444ttb on Wednesday 15th July 14:39

[V8KSN]

m444ttb said:

Well this was a post i hoped not to make. bought my 89k mile 2002 Carrera 4 from a local garage back in late November. I'd noticied if I didn't use the car for over two weeks it would puff some blue smoke on start up. Autofarm checked the bores and they were scoring free and more frequent usage never saw it really return.

The car has always had a little oil usage but since I've had an oil change done the rate seems to have gone up. Based on Autofarm's findings at the time (condition of the used oil) I suspect it had some thicker and quite old stuff in it. I popped out the other evening to enjoy some country lates with another Pork owning PHer and this saw it use a noticeable quantity of oil. All in over 450 miles since Autofarm serviced it to when i dropped it off for some other bits to be sorted it used the full range on the dip stick, which i think is 1.5L. Clearly things aren't good. Autofarm have confirmed that it has some leaky piston rings, particularly on cyclinder 5 (on the right bank i think) and th e(new) plugs were quite black and the new tailpipe I have on the right side (exit for left bank - the less leaky side!) was blackening nicely after my evening joy ride.

I'm not sure quite where i'm going with this post so you'll forgive the rambling. I love driving the car, although i was considering selling, but think i'm going to have to suck it up and get a loan to pay for a proper rebuild that will take care of all the 'usual' 996 issues plus some service items such as clutch and water pump. Then keep the thing a long time to justify it.

I'm telling myself that in 12 months time when it's all paid for I'll be able to sleep easy not worring about the engine going bang at any moment but I can't get the thought of spending more than half the current value of the car on the engine out of my head. Not to mention all the other things I could spend that sort of cash on

Sorry to hear about this, it's never nice reading these posts.

It's so frustrating that there is this 'cloud of death' over the M96/97 engines and its such a bad mark on the marque.

I used to own a 2005 997 Carrera S and I was always a bit paranoid of the engine grenading on me....so much so that I changed as quickly as I could to the car I had lusted after for years - the 997 GT3. This has the famed Mezger engine but there have also been stories of this engine failing too!

On another thread on this forum, there are stories surfacing of the new 991 GT3 engine still experiencing issues with one person on his eighth engine! That's a worrying sign indeed for me as I am considering buying one!

There was a time (back in the air-cooled days) that buying a Porsche meant buying a great car with bomb-proof reliability. Sadly that's no longer the case

As far as your car goes. I would HIGHLY recommend you speak to Hartech about their rebuilds. I think you are looking at having to spend around £10k but a Hartech rebuilt car will be a lot more desirable as a second hand prospect so you may not 'lose' too much money.

Anyway, good luck in whatever you decide to do.

[rubystone]

What thickness oil was used for the oil change? Presumably NOT 0 rated...

[m444ttb]

I'll either have Autofarm do the work as they maintain the car so makes some sense or I'll go to Hartech. Before i bought it i had a chat with Hartech and priced up their ultimate rebuild at £8k +VAT.

rubystone said:

What thickness oil was used for the oil change? Presumably NOT 0 rated...

The oil change i had done at Autofarm? I can't entirely remember but i think they use 10w-40? I'll check when i pick it up Saturday. As for what came out of it I've honestly no idea. Autofarm thought that from the state of the drain plug it may have skipped a service as they struggled to get it out. Prior to that it had been at Swindon and Reading OPCs though.

It's annoying that the car is otherwise really good. Or perhaps that's a good thing?

[m444ttb]

rubystone said:

Are you sure it needs a rebuild? Maybe just top-end if it's guides?

I'll talk to Autofarm on Saturday and see what they think. What i dont want to do is throw a few grand at it and still have that nagging doubt about the IMS, bore score, etc. It's a tough choice but at least i like the car a lot.

[m444ttb]

I don't think I could punt it on for a big loss. I'd rather chuck more cash at it and at least feel like I had something to show. I'd be less pissed off if this was the first time something like this had happened to me. My lovely 80k mile BMW M52 nikasil engine with it's oval cylinders was fun back in 2005!

[mollytherocker]

Sorry to hear that. Its painful.

If you love the car, then its worth the investment. At least you will then have the car you wanted!

[BertBert]

V8KSN said:

There was a time (back in the air-cooled days) that buying a Porsche meant buying a great car with bomb-proof reliability. Sadly that's no longer the case

You do know that's a myth don't you?

Back in the day we had several 911s in the company for the big knobs. They were sort unreliable. I've no idea how Porsche created this bullet proof idea. It's complete fiction!
Bert

[g7jhp]

BertBert said:

V8KSN said:

There was a time (back in the air-cooled days) that buying a Porsche meant buying a great car with bomb-proof reliability. Sadly that's no longer the case

You do know that's a myth don't you?

Back in the day we had several 911s in the company for the big knobs. They were sort unreliable. I've no idea how Porsche created this bullet proof idea. It's complete fiction!
Bert

My 3.2's were certainly reliable. Company car drivers don't always look after their cars like enthusiasts!

[t400ble]

Not under warranty if only bought last year?

[m444ttb]

It was only for 6 months and having tried to claim for something else a waste of paper anyway. Given this is piston rings I suspect they would have declined it as wear and tear.

Edited by m444ttb on Wednesday 15th July 21:19

[996TT02]

BertBert said:

V8KSN said:

There was a time (back in the air-cooled days) that buying a Porsche meant buying a great car with bomb-proof reliability. Sadly that's no longer the case

You do know that's a myth don't you?

Back in the day we had several 911s in the company for the big knobs. They were sort unreliable. I've no idea how Porsche created this bullet proof idea. It's complete fiction!
Bert

The main thing was that Porsches were considered to be far more practical and reliable than Ferraris.

There was not that much more to compare with in those days, it really was just a two horse race for that type of vehicle.

[m444ttb]

Back in those days I'd imagine British people considered reliable to mean didn't crumble to dust within 12 months and would start most winter mornings!

[mollytherocker]

m444ttb said:

Back in those days I'd imagine British people considered reliable to mean didn't crumble to dust within 12 months and would start most winter mornings!

Indeed, I remember the British Leyland cars showing rust within 12 months!

[monthefish]

mollytherocker said:

Sorry to hear that. Its painful.

If you love the car, then its worth the investment. At least you will then have the car you wanted!

This.

I think the 996's engine reputation tends to overshadow what great cars they are, EVO car of the year in its day don't forget, and measurably better than all previous generations of 911.

If you do keep the car for a few years, there's a decent chance you'll most/all of the repair cost back come resale, and have a great car to enjoy in the meantime.

[IknowJoseph]

m444ttb said:

I'll talk to Autofarm on Saturday and see what they think. What i dont want to do is throw a few grand at it and still have that nagging doubt about the IMS, bore score, etc. It's a tough choice but at least i like the car a lot.

Might be worth asking if they suggest the new short block engine - I've had a quick chat with Steve about it down there in the past.

[m444ttb]

IknowJoseph said:

Might be worth asking if they suggest the new short block engine - I've had a quick chat with Steve about it down there in the past.

Surely a Porsche owner i need to obsess over matching numbers?

[DavidJG]

m444ttb said:

Surely a Porsche owner i need to obsess over matching numbers?

Not so much with a 996 - lots have had engine swaps. Whatever rebuild you go for, IMS upgrade is a no brainer and adds very little to the overall cost. Worth it for peace of mind.

[DavidJG]

m444ttb said:

Surely a Porsche owner i need to obsess over matching numbers?

Not so much with a 996 - lots have had engine swaps. Whatever rebuild you go for, IMS upgrade is a no brainer and adds very little to the overall cost. Worth it for peace of mind.

[m444ttb]

Off to Autofarm to collect the car in a minute. I've asked them to prepare me prices on a range of options from minimal fix up to do everything including taking it out to 3.9L. Anyone fancy a guess at the spread of prices?