997 Winter Wheels
Discussion
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
concur. £1,500 is a lump of cash to pass to the OPC. the way I saw it was tyres are tyres, they wear out. I just have two sets to wear, taking twice as long 
and the wheels well, you can always punt those on.
Especially at winter time when everyone is scraping around to make a set of winters ;-)
I put my set together for under a grand, and would probably get most back without an issue.
OPC mugging is also available on all sorts of other items isn't it....
How dare you?! Go and buy yourself a 2.7 RS T-shirt for £300, a new gear stick for £1,000, a PSE for £2,000.... and the wheels well, you can always punt those on. Especially at winter time when everyone is scraping around to make a set of winters ;-)
I put my set together for under a grand, and would probably get most back without an issue.
OPC mugging is also available on all sorts of other items isn't it....
gaxor said:
Are you kidding? A Porsche promotional video?! 'This highly profitable thing we offer is necessary.' 
In seriousness, choosing a Panamera for the comparison makes most of the tests largely irrelevant to proper Porsches with the engine over the driven wheels. The video is mostly useful for seeing whether to get winters for a BMW.
Nonetheless, the braking demonstration was quite impressive. I think that's the real value in winters if you live in the South. Im not worried about traction in the cold or wet, but stopping distances are always a major element of safety. I'll look into the evidence on that bit, as it caught my attention. Thanks
ORD said:
You guys must drive absolutely balls out fast if you seriously think you'll have any problems with grip at 5 degrees with premium summer tyres on a 997. Likewise for standing water.
As for ice, you're f
ked on any tyres
Spun the back out in very light snow on my estate doing 15mph - with good summer tyres (plenty of tread etc). With all that weight in the back it can swing like a pendulum. I didn't bother with my 996 turbo & was fine in winter with the 4WD traction. Then it was onto a 325 - winter tyres were just amazing. So will defo be getting some for my 997. As for ice, you're f
ked on any tyres ORD said:
Problem there is that you're hardly going to pay £1,500 to your OPC and then say 'What a mug I am!''. Some people might, but a lot of people will persuade themselves that they got a lot of value for the money.
I take the point on actually trying something before I say it's pointless
You are so wrong about this Ord! I take the point on actually trying something before I say it's pointless
Sure you can get away with summer tyres in most uk road conditions if the roads have been gritted, but the grip levels with proper winter tyres are so much better and safer. It's not a subtle difference at all, it's night and day better. We live in a small country village where they are very slow to grit the roads and after one particularly bad winter when I was stranded at home on several occasions (this was with a Volvo V50 on normal summer Bridgestones) I put some decent winter tyres on it. Never been stranded since and it could drive confidently through snow and ice with the winter tyres on. The sort of conditions where people with normal tyres can't get off their drives. They also give much better grip in the cold wet weather we see for months on end, but that's less important if you are just cruising around slowly.
On a 385hp RWD Porsche with massively wide low profile tyres, winter tyres are a no-brainer IMHO if you want to enjoy winter driving. Otherwise you might as well not bother.
OT: I really think the government should follow most European countries in making winter tyres compulsory. It would save a lot of the stupid road carnage scenes we see every time we get the first hint of a frost. But I guess it's too much of a political hot potato.
Andrew911 said:
Must admit, just thought they would be the most expensive place to buy them. Might give them a call.
Yes, I think it may even be a factory subsidised deal to promote all year round use and ultimately sell more cars. I think BMW had the same idea as they had such a reputation for being completely ste in winter with RWD. uktrailmonster said:
ORD said:
Problem there is that you're hardly going to pay £1,500 to your OPC and then say 'What a mug I am!''. Some people might, but a lot of people will persuade themselves that they got a lot of value for the money.
I take the point on actually trying something before I say it's pointless
You are so wrong about this Ord! I take the point on actually trying something before I say it's pointless
Sure you can get away with summer tyres in most uk road conditions if the roads have been gritted, but the grip levels with proper winter tyres are so much better and safer. It's not a subtle difference at all, it's night and day better. We live in a small country village where they are very slow to grit the roads and after one particularly bad winter when I was stranded at home on several occasions (this was with a Volvo V50 on normal summer Bridgestones) I put some decent winter tyres on it. Never been stranded since and it could drive confidently through snow and ice with the winter tyres on. The sort of conditions where people with normal tyres can't get off their drives. They also give much better grip in the cold wet weather we see for months on end, but that's less important if you are just cruising around slowly.
On a 385hp RWD Porsche with massively wide low profile tyres, winter tyres are a no-brainer IMHO if you want to enjoy winter driving. Otherwise you might as well not bother.
OT: I really think the government should follow most European countries in making winter tyres compulsory. It would save a lot of the stupid road carnage scenes we see every time we get the first hint of a frost. But I guess it's too much of a political hot potato.
I would obviously have winter tyres (and AWD) if I lived in a remote village.
ORD said:
Are you kidding? A Porsche promotional video?! 'This highly profitable thing we offer is necessary.'
In seriousness, choosing a Panamera for the comparison makes most of the tests largely irrelevant to proper Porsches with the engine over the driven wheels. The video is mostly useful for seeing whether to get winters for a BMW.
Nonetheless, the braking demonstration was quite impressive. I think that's the real value in winters if you live in the South. Im not worried about traction in the cold or wet, but stopping distances are always a major element of safety. I'll look into the evidence on that bit, as it caught my attention. Thanks
So you buy your tyres from an OPC then do you? Why is this a Porsche money spinner, anyone with a modicum of sense buys tyres from a tyre fitter. Also if you want to see what difference winter tyres make to a BMW just google it. There are loads of Youtube and other videos illustrating the huge difference winter tyres make.In seriousness, choosing a Panamera for the comparison makes most of the tests largely irrelevant to proper Porsches with the engine over the driven wheels. The video is mostly useful for seeing whether to get winters for a BMW.
Nonetheless, the braking demonstration was quite impressive. I think that's the real value in winters if you live in the South. Im not worried about traction in the cold or wet, but stopping distances are always a major element of safety. I'll look into the evidence on that bit, as it caught my attention. Thanks
Finally Don't confuse winter tyres with snow tyres, they are not the same thing at all!
ORD said:
That would be insane. I have driven for 15 years through UK winters and never once got into any difficulty in any car. People should simply learn to drive to the conditions, which includes staying at home if there is snow and you dont have winter tyres.
I would obviously have winter tyres (and AWD) if I lived in a remote village.
Keep your blinkers on then. Your choice.I would obviously have winter tyres (and AWD) if I lived in a remote village.
Obviously people should learn how to drive safely, but that includes using the best tyres for the conditions they are driving in. I agree if it's snowing and you only have summer tyres on then you should stay home (but people rarely do in reality). But with winter tyres, you can drive around pretty safely in a foot of snow. They really are that good.
Interesting you mention AWD. It does of course help in winter too, but a RWD car with winter tyres is far better than any AWD car with summer tyres. My wife's business partner has a 4WD Audi and a couple of years ago he was really struggling to get in to work through a bit of snow and wondered how my wife managed it effortlessly in a 2WD Volvo. Winter tyres. Once the penny dropped he fitted a set himself and never looked back.
FWIW I drove through a couple of decades without winter tyres too, but once I discovered them there was no turning back. Depends where you live as to the full benefits, but they work significantly better in all winter conditions. Basically whenever the temperature is below 10 deg and/or wet.
I bought a set of winter tyres for and Audi A3 we used to have which was frankly the worst car I've ever driven in the snow. Living in NE Scotland, we can sometimes get quite a lot and we were basically stranded. The difference was more than amazing and turned the snow churning piece of crap into a winter wonder car. If you have to use the car when the weather is bad then I would definitely recommend them.
Edit to mention they are crap if you have a nice warm day though. Like driving on balloons.
Edit to mention they are crap if you have a nice warm day though. Like driving on balloons.
Edited by More Steam on Friday 11th September 11:43
uktrailmonster said:
Keep your blinkers on then. Your choice.
Obviously people should learn how to drive safely, but that includes using the best tyres for the conditions they are driving in. I agree if it's snowing and you only have summer tyres on then you should stay home (but people rarely do in reality). But with winter tyres, you can drive around pretty safely in a foot of snow. They really are that good.
Interesting you mention AWD. It does of course help in winter too, but a RWD car with winter tyres is far better than any AWD car with summer tyres. My wife's business partner has a 4WD Audi and a couple of years ago he was really struggling to get in to work through a bit of snow and wondered how my wife managed it effortlessly in a 2WD Volvo. Winter tyres. Once the penny dropped he fitted a set himself and never looked back.
FWIW I drove through a couple of decades without winter tyres too, but once I discovered them there was no turning back. Depends where you live as to the full benefits, but they work significantly better in all winter conditions. Basically whenever the temperature is below 10 deg and/or wet.
Not sure the blinkers comment is fair. I have been listening to what people say, and I was quite impressed by the stopping distance demo.Obviously people should learn how to drive safely, but that includes using the best tyres for the conditions they are driving in. I agree if it's snowing and you only have summer tyres on then you should stay home (but people rarely do in reality). But with winter tyres, you can drive around pretty safely in a foot of snow. They really are that good.
Interesting you mention AWD. It does of course help in winter too, but a RWD car with winter tyres is far better than any AWD car with summer tyres. My wife's business partner has a 4WD Audi and a couple of years ago he was really struggling to get in to work through a bit of snow and wondered how my wife managed it effortlessly in a 2WD Volvo. Winter tyres. Once the penny dropped he fitted a set himself and never looked back.
FWIW I drove through a couple of decades without winter tyres too, but once I discovered them there was no turning back. Depends where you live as to the full benefits, but they work significantly better in all winter conditions. Basically whenever the temperature is below 10 deg and/or wet.
Obviously complete right re AWD and summer tyres. Good for getting you off the mark but won't help you stop or steer!
ORD said:
Not sure the blinkers comment is fair. I have been listening to what people say, and I was quite impressed by the stopping distance demo.
Okay fair enough. Read this test of winter tyres then (includes a summer tyre for reference) and tell me you still can't see the benefit.http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/666...
I am definitely a convert wrt winter tyres. As said previously since spinning out the back end in my 993 - it spun into the kerb & smashed the rear wheel so much it was horizontal! And that was only going 15/20 mph. On a trip to Canada I had a Chrysler people carrier & drove to remote ski slopes - really impressed with the winter tyres. Winte
Andrew911 said:
I am definitely a convert wrt winter tyres. As said previously since spinning out the back end in my 993 - it spun into the kerb & smashed the rear wheel so much it was horizontal! And that was only going 15/20 mph. On a trip to Canada I had a Chrysler people carrier & drove to remote ski slopes - really impressed with the winter tyres. Winte
Yes, we go to interior BC to ski every year and you don't find anyone driving around on summer tyres there!Following the thread with interest as I've picked up the growing crescendo of 'you HAVE to have winter tyres'.
I'm more with ORD though I'm afraid. I have been driving in UK winters for 25 years on summer/normal tyres and never had a problem/accident (daily cars and performance cars). It may be that I naturally drive more cautiously and much slower in winter conditions, or maybe I've been lucky. I drove our 997T through last winter quite a lot and never struggled.
Would having winters lull many into a false sense of security?
As for snow, wouldn't most 911's just become a snow ploughs through lack of ride height? Sure well compacted now on A roads would be OK, but what about driveways and sideroads?
Must confess, if there's ever any snow I just don't go anywhere unless its an emergency.
I'm more with ORD though I'm afraid. I have been driving in UK winters for 25 years on summer/normal tyres and never had a problem/accident (daily cars and performance cars). It may be that I naturally drive more cautiously and much slower in winter conditions, or maybe I've been lucky. I drove our 997T through last winter quite a lot and never struggled.
Would having winters lull many into a false sense of security?
As for snow, wouldn't most 911's just become a snow ploughs through lack of ride height? Sure well compacted now on A roads would be OK, but what about driveways and sideroads?
Must confess, if there's ever any snow I just don't go anywhere unless its an emergency.
James44 said:
Following the thread with interest as I've picked up the growing crescendo of 'you HAVE to have winter tyres'.
I think people are simply saying that when temperatures are low (below 7 degrees is the normal scale quoted), which happens for a decent amount of time in the UK, then winter tyres offer a number of significant advantages compared to summer tyres.To suggest otherwise, given the available evidence, is somewhat strange.
James44 said:
I'm more with ORD though I'm afraid. I have been driving in UK winters for 25 years on summer/normal tyres and never had a problem/accident (daily cars and performance cars). It may be that I naturally drive more cautiously and much slower in winter conditions, or maybe I've been lucky. I drove our 997T through last winter quite a lot and never struggled.
Would having winters lull many into a false sense of security?
As for snow, wouldn't most 911's just become a snow ploughs through lack of ride height? Sure well compacted now on A roads would be OK, but what about driveways and sideroads?
Must confess, if there's ever any snow I just don't go anywhere unless its an emergency.
If you had winter tyres, you'd be able to take a more rationale view!Would having winters lull many into a false sense of security?
As for snow, wouldn't most 911's just become a snow ploughs through lack of ride height? Sure well compacted now on A roads would be OK, but what about driveways and sideroads?
Must confess, if there's ever any snow I just don't go anywhere unless its an emergency.
Edited by sidicks on Friday 11th September 22:49
I was just suggesting that the populist view in this thread seems to be that winter tyres are a must, verging on essential. To which i'd disagree, though fully accept that they seem to offer better performance.
Not sure how much winter tyres help in the snow, I think someone said they aren't to be confused with snow tyres. But anyway, fortunately where we are there only a couple of days of snow a year. I guess in more northern parts its more often, perhaps up there people should have 3 sets of tyres for their cars?
J
Not sure how much winter tyres help in the snow, I think someone said they aren't to be confused with snow tyres. But anyway, fortunately where we are there only a couple of days of snow a year. I guess in more northern parts its more often, perhaps up there people should have 3 sets of tyres for their cars?
J
To get out of our old house meant a short climb from the 'Avenue' to the main road. With an inch or two of snow on the ground our old 9986s stopped dead. My Focus would maybe get up there if I was lucky. Bung a pair of Avon Ice Touring tyres on the front of the Focus and she'd haul up the snowy climb with aplomb. Just saying, like.
James44 said:
I was just suggesting that the populist view in this thread seems to be that winter tyres are a must, verging on essential. To which i'd disagree, though fully accept that they seem to offer better performance.
Not sure how much winter tyres help in the snow, I think someone said they aren't to be confused with snow tyres. But anyway, fortunately where we are there only a couple of days of snow a year. I guess in more northern parts its more often, perhaps up there people should have 3 sets of tyres for their cars?
J
They are like night and day in snow - I use them on our 3 series and it's the difference between getting stuck on a mild slope in a car park, to being able to drive through country roads, with a few inches of snow down - and being able to steer and stop... Not sure how much winter tyres help in the snow, I think someone said they aren't to be confused with snow tyres. But anyway, fortunately where we are there only a couple of days of snow a year. I guess in more northern parts its more often, perhaps up there people should have 3 sets of tyres for their cars?
J
We don't get enough extrame weather to make them compulsory, but we drive to skiing every year and there are enough occasions where we would have been stuck without them to make the cost worthwhile. She' we do get snow here it's nice to be able head out and not worry about getting stuck, and it's nice to know the car will actually stop when you try and brake.
One thing I have found with my 997 however is that the grip on summer tyres in cold weather and snow is amazing - the weight over the rear wheels makes a huge difference, however that is not going to help it brake...
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