In a pickle... 991 Carrera S vs 997.2 Turbo
Discussion
Genuine question:
What is the appeal of an automatic transmission on a spots car? I note that there appears to be a lot of love for the PDK 'box on this thread.
As someone who's owned three 911s (and who happily used two of them to commute in London), the very thought of not being able to change gears through actual physical intervention makes me want to cry.
There's no doubt the PDK is a technical marvel, but IMO, it still robs the driver of that crucial involvement. Indeed, if I was looking for an investment 911, the very last thing I'd be looking for is an automatic car.
What is the appeal of an automatic transmission on a spots car? I note that there appears to be a lot of love for the PDK 'box on this thread.
As someone who's owned three 911s (and who happily used two of them to commute in London), the very thought of not being able to change gears through actual physical intervention makes me want to cry.
There's no doubt the PDK is a technical marvel, but IMO, it still robs the driver of that crucial involvement. Indeed, if I was looking for an investment 911, the very last thing I'd be looking for is an automatic car.
Buggernuts said:
Genuine question:
What is the appeal of an automatic transmission on a spots car? I note that there appears to be a lot of love for the PDK 'box on this thread.
As someone who's owned three 911s (and who happily used two of them to commute in London), the very thought of not being able to change gears through actual physical intervention makes me want to cry.
There's no doubt the PDK is a technical marvel, but IMO, it still robs the driver of that crucial involvement. Indeed, if I was looking for an investment 911, the very last thing I'd be looking for is an automatic car.
I thought the same way as you did until I bought my first PDK car and now I would never buy a 911 without it. What is the appeal of an automatic transmission on a spots car? I note that there appears to be a lot of love for the PDK 'box on this thread.
As someone who's owned three 911s (and who happily used two of them to commute in London), the very thought of not being able to change gears through actual physical intervention makes me want to cry.
There's no doubt the PDK is a technical marvel, but IMO, it still robs the driver of that crucial involvement. Indeed, if I was looking for an investment 911, the very last thing I'd be looking for is an automatic car.
tty box and CDV can kill a manual. But the 911 7MT is apparently fine.Buggernuts said:
Genuine question:
What is the appeal of an automatic transmission on a spots car? I note that there appears to be a lot of love for the PDK 'box on this thread.
As someone who's owned three 911s (and who happily used two of them to commute in London), the very thought of not being able to change gears through actual physical intervention makes me want to cry.
There's no doubt the PDK is a technical marvel, but IMO, it still robs the driver of that crucial involvement. Indeed, if I was looking for an investment 911, the very last thing I'd be looking for is an automatic car.
Well, no What is the appeal of an automatic transmission on a spots car? I note that there appears to be a lot of love for the PDK 'box on this thread.
As someone who's owned three 911s (and who happily used two of them to commute in London), the very thought of not being able to change gears through actual physical intervention makes me want to cry.
There's no doubt the PDK is a technical marvel, but IMO, it still robs the driver of that crucial involvement. Indeed, if I was looking for an investment 911, the very last thing I'd be looking for is an automatic car.
- the PDK paddles give you plenty of involvement, the auto mode just just makes the most of the engine imo. Given that the new GT3/GT3 RS are PDK only tells you that Porsche think auto's have a place in sports cars. It might also be down to the car/engine/gearbox combo. The TT just suits it pefectly, but I can understand that with a 2.7 N/A that the need to thrash it a bit is more rewarding with a manual.
Not sure if there is a difference, but i had the Turbo S and it sounded more 'interesting' than the Gen 1 Turbo i had before it (which made no noise whatsoever).
I see the appeal of the new 991; they are so nice inside and very relaxing. The 997 has far worse NVH but it is also smaller and more intimiate to drive.
I put some Cup 2s on the 997.2 Turbo S and it was a monster A to B car and made me giggle with it's performance. However, it's ability was high and i never felt comfortable 'playing' with it. I 'downgraded' to an N/A model as a result and didn't regret it; that was cemented after my first bit of oversteer at a roundabout with the wailing flat six behind me.
I really would encourage you to drive them all if possible. Depending on you mood and the role you need the car to meet, your decision could go so many ways.
I see the appeal of the new 991; they are so nice inside and very relaxing. The 997 has far worse NVH but it is also smaller and more intimiate to drive.
I put some Cup 2s on the 997.2 Turbo S and it was a monster A to B car and made me giggle with it's performance. However, it's ability was high and i never felt comfortable 'playing' with it. I 'downgraded' to an N/A model as a result and didn't regret it; that was cemented after my first bit of oversteer at a roundabout with the wailing flat six behind me.
I really would encourage you to drive them all if possible. Depending on you mood and the role you need the car to meet, your decision could go so many ways.
TheBMWDriver said:
Buggernuts said:
Genuine question:
What is the appeal of an automatic transmission on a spots car? I note that there appears to be a lot of love for the PDK 'box on this thread.
As someone who's owned three 911s (and who happily used two of them to commute in London), the very thought of not being able to change gears through actual physical intervention makes me want to cry.
There's no doubt the PDK is a technical marvel, but IMO, it still robs the driver of that crucial involvement. Indeed, if I was looking for an investment 911, the very last thing I'd be looking for is an automatic car.
I thought the same way as you did until I bought my first PDK car and now I would never buy a 911 without it. What is the appeal of an automatic transmission on a spots car? I note that there appears to be a lot of love for the PDK 'box on this thread.
As someone who's owned three 911s (and who happily used two of them to commute in London), the very thought of not being able to change gears through actual physical intervention makes me want to cry.
There's no doubt the PDK is a technical marvel, but IMO, it still robs the driver of that crucial involvement. Indeed, if I was looking for an investment 911, the very last thing I'd be looking for is an automatic car.
W1TAK said:
That's a lot of car for the money. Talking of depreciation, with people paying upwards of 50k for 996 turbo's how can a Gen II Turbo depreciate that much? Surely its value is bolstered by 'lesser' models beneath it (not that I want to offend anyone in a 996 turbo or Gen I turbo as i am sure they are great cars ). The Gen II Turbo, in its limited numbers should be a reasonably safe place to put your money...at least as good as the 997 GTS.
To me the Turbo is the flagship 911.
Indeed it is, the higher owner count through is a little off-putting though. It's basically had a new owner every year.To me the Turbo is the flagship 911.
Schlam said:
Indeed it is, the higher owner count through is a little off-putting though. It's basically had a new owner every year.
I know what you mean Schlam but dont let that put you off a good car. I would always buy on condition and history. I remember seeing a stunning racing yellow 991 GT3 for sale at JZM - had about 1200 miles on it and 4 owners in a little over a year (flippers there I suppose) but still a top car. People sometimes get bored quickly or maybe a circumstance change...the 997.2 Turbo is a robust and relaible car as long as all the mechanical work has been completed on time etc dont rule it out.I had this exact situation 6 weeks ago and also asked for advise. In the end I went back and forth and was really struggling to get my head around it. 997 Turbo is a 997 Turbo and there really isn't anything like it in terms of speed and grip etc. Also looks cool and its a 911 Turbo!!
The 991 is more modern and to me looks nicer in almost every way, the cabin is a much better place to be and just felt like a much more modern proposition. It is also plenty fast enough in the real world. Also the PSE sounded amazing, something that is important to me in sports cars and the Turbo just couldn't deliver.
Tough choice but in the end I went for the 991 and for me it was the right choice. It is superb and a joy to drive, sounds amazing as well. I couldnt get my head around spending thta kind of money on a previous generation car either, daft I know but I just wanted the newest car I could get for my money. For me it was a big purchase so had to get it right!
Ultimately I would have liked to have gone for a 991 Turbo but was just too far out of budget for the time being. Maybe in 12 months!
As other said to me it isnt a bad choice to have and neither will let you down!
The 991 is more modern and to me looks nicer in almost every way, the cabin is a much better place to be and just felt like a much more modern proposition. It is also plenty fast enough in the real world. Also the PSE sounded amazing, something that is important to me in sports cars and the Turbo just couldn't deliver.
Tough choice but in the end I went for the 991 and for me it was the right choice. It is superb and a joy to drive, sounds amazing as well. I couldnt get my head around spending thta kind of money on a previous generation car either, daft I know but I just wanted the newest car I could get for my money. For me it was a big purchase so had to get it right!
Ultimately I would have liked to have gone for a 991 Turbo but was just too far out of budget for the time being. Maybe in 12 months!
As other said to me it isnt a bad choice to have and neither will let you down!
Zanderman said:
I had this exact situation 6 weeks ago and also asked for advise. In the end I went back and forth and was really struggling to get my head around it. 997 Turbo is a 997 Turbo and there really isn't anything like it in terms of speed and grip etc. Also looks cool and its a 911 Turbo!!
The 991 is more modern and to me looks nicer in almost every way, the cabin is a much better place to be and just felt like a much more modern proposition. It is also plenty fast enough in the real world. Also the PSE sounded amazing, something that is important to me in sports cars and the Turbo just couldn't deliver.
Tough choice but in the end I went for the 991 and for me it was the right choice. It is superb and a joy to drive, sounds amazing as well. I couldnt get my head around spending thta kind of money on a previous generation car either, daft I know but I just wanted the newest car I could get for my money. For me it was a big purchase so had to get it right!
Ultimately I would have liked to have gone for a 991 Turbo but was just too far out of budget for the time being. Maybe in 12 months!
As other said to me it isnt a bad choice to have and neither will let you down!
Good post - I know I am going to be in a dilemma!! 997 turbos have held up pretty well last year or so my neighbour bought a gen2 PDK car 20k ish miles for £65k from a dealer 18 months ago and they still seem to be pretty much the same and another £10-15k for the S. I guess at £85k you then have to start to look at a 991 GTS too (not many around I at that level I know). So many choices with the 911!!! I love 911 turbos but the 991 is what at least £100k for std car?The 991 is more modern and to me looks nicer in almost every way, the cabin is a much better place to be and just felt like a much more modern proposition. It is also plenty fast enough in the real world. Also the PSE sounded amazing, something that is important to me in sports cars and the Turbo just couldn't deliver.
Tough choice but in the end I went for the 991 and for me it was the right choice. It is superb and a joy to drive, sounds amazing as well. I couldnt get my head around spending thta kind of money on a previous generation car either, daft I know but I just wanted the newest car I could get for my money. For me it was a big purchase so had to get it right!
Ultimately I would have liked to have gone for a 991 Turbo but was just too far out of budget for the time being. Maybe in 12 months!
As other said to me it isnt a bad choice to have and neither will let you down!
I very much prefer a manual for a sports car but having owned 2 manual 997 Turbos I think the PDK would suit the car more. As Turbos don't do the high Rev thrill thing you buy that car for brutal efficient speed and convenient lower speed mile munching so a manual is not essential. Would also make the most of all the turbo torque available, all the time. Spent 20 mins in a PDK turbo and had to get out before I got a custodial speeding fine. They really are video game like to drive.
berty37 said:
Good post - I know I am going to be in a dilemma!! 997 turbos have held up pretty well last year or so my neighbour bought a gen2 PDK car 20k ish miles for £65k from a dealer 18 months ago and they still seem to be pretty much the same and another £10-15k for the S. I guess at £85k you then have to start to look at a 991 GTS too (not many around I at that level I know). So many choices with the 911!!! I love 911 turbos but the 991 is what at least £100k for std car?
I too had a recent dilemma over where to put £85k and had what seemed loads of 991 for that money but avoided the vanilla models for a 997.2 Turbo S with 3,700 miles and fully loaded. I prefer having a special model, which has also depreciated by about £50k. Flirted with a 991 turbo S but entry price was another £20k.W1TAK said:
I too had a recent dilemma over where to put £85k and had what seemed loads of 991 for that money but avoided the vanilla models for a 997.2 Turbo S with 3,700 miles and fully loaded. I prefer having a special model, which has also depreciated by about £50k. Flirted with a 991 turbo S but entry price was another £20k.
Yes I saw you had bought the HR Owen car on another thread congrats looked a total corker. I tend to agree I have always fancied a turbo S so I think thats the car I am going to go for.StuH said:
Well, no - the PDK paddles give you plenty of involvement, the auto mode just just makes the most of the engine imo. Given that the new GT3/GT3 RS are PDK only tells you that Porsche think auto's have a place in sports cars.
It might also be down to the car/engine/gearbox combo. The TT just suits it pefectly, but I can understand that with a 2.7 N/A that the need to thrash it a bit is more rewarding with a manual.
No, I'd wager that PDK is as much about mitigating warranty exposure and keeping emissions at bay as it is about being user friendly. It certainly hasn't been designed to 'thrill' the driver. That's the power of marketing for you - the PDK paddles give you plenty of involvement, the auto mode just just makes the most of the engine imo. Given that the new GT3/GT3 RS are PDK only tells you that Porsche think auto's have a place in sports cars. It might also be down to the car/engine/gearbox combo. The TT just suits it pefectly, but I can understand that with a 2.7 N/A that the need to thrash it a bit is more rewarding with a manual.
I admire the engineering, but find the whole experience soulless.
Edited by blumpkin on Tuesday 3rd November 07:41
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