In a pickle... 991 Carrera S vs 997.2 Turbo
Discussion
Dogbash said:
I currently own a Gen 2 PDK 997 turbo. I drove the 991 C2s when looking to buy but the turbo did it for me. Its literally in a different league in terms of performance. I feel more connected to the road in the 997 and the grip is outstanding.
Highly recommend the turbo.
Andrew
That is exactly why I bought a gen 2 turbo.Highly recommend the turbo.
Andrew
Bikeracer1098 said:
That is exactly why I bought a gen 2 turbo.
And me 
- non-turbo 911 simply lacking in performance after previous cars. Performance in the monsoon like Oxfordshire weather today was mind-boggling!!
I absolutely love the PDK, and having to drive a manual M3 recently was a complete chore.
blumpkin said:
No, I'd wager that PDK is as much about mitigating warranty exposure and keeping emissions at bay as it is about being user friendly. It certainly hasn't been designed to 'thrill' the driver. That's the power of marketing for you 
I admire the engineering, but find the whole experience soulless.
I think it's just the best tech for the job. Soulless is complete garbage imo. Completely emotive lanaguage for something so subjective as manual v auto. The 997 TT PDK is motoring perfection for a ROAD car imo I admire the engineering, but find the whole experience soulless.
Edited by blumpkin on Tuesday 3rd November 07:41
ORD said:
I think a lot of this turns on the difference between driving enthusiasts and car enthusiasts. For the former, any car that largely drives itself is pretty meh.
OR it could be that they haven't lived with a PDK and just go by what they read in the motoring press 
I'm a complete car and driving nut from before I could walk, done more track days than I can remember, and had plenty of mnanual fun in a 'snickety snickety' 355 and many others, I drove a manual TT but PREFERED the PDK. As do most buyers hence the rarity of manuals. Different strokes for different folks
No manual GT3..........I'd say most owners were driving enthusiants?
For some, probably. I had a PDK car for 2 years and have had more fun in a few months with a manual Porsche. There simply wasn't enough to do in the PDK and no real skill to driving fast. If I was prepared to take risks on the road, fun could be had, I expect, more often; but I drive at sensible speeds and to be able to stop in the distance I can see to be clear
Moose can you help clarify something for me.Over on another thread about ECOTY. That was as we know the GT4 but you almost seem dismayed why it won I thought you would be delighted that a manual box ok may not have he gearing everyone wants but is still a good box was triumphant.
Over the years manual GT3 inclu RS have won that award too when they were manual and up against really good paddle boxes like the 458. Can it not be just the way a car drives can be enhanced by a PDK box just as much as a manual?
Most of the driving I do is on the road like probably most of us and some just prefer an auto box doesn't necessarily make them any less of a driver it's just what they like...
In all fairness too let's be honest most 911's dating back to a 964 can be too fast for the road, granted a PDK box will get you there quicker but still very quick cars. Are there any cars you think simply a manual wouldn't work say the 458 the 650S etc?
Over the years manual GT3 inclu RS have won that award too when they were manual and up against really good paddle boxes like the 458. Can it not be just the way a car drives can be enhanced by a PDK box just as much as a manual?
Most of the driving I do is on the road like probably most of us and some just prefer an auto box doesn't necessarily make them any less of a driver it's just what they like...
In all fairness too let's be honest most 911's dating back to a 964 can be too fast for the road, granted a PDK box will get you there quicker but still very quick cars. Are there any cars you think simply a manual wouldn't work say the 458 the 650S etc?
ORD said:
Not for me, but you asked cmoose
I don't think I would even want a 458 S despite otherwise thinking it's incredible. These cars are autos so any fool can drive them, and that's depressing.
Any fool can drive a manual too ORD... Drive it well, heel and toe and rev match maybe not. I don't think I would even want a 458 S despite otherwise thinking it's incredible. These cars are autos so any fool can drive them, and that's depressing.
True. But if you can't do all those things well, you'll be very frustrated very quickly and think the car is crap! If you stuck the average punter in my comfort spec 997 (let alone a 964 RS or other hairy chest car), they would chip a nail, moan about the heavy clutch pedal and wonder why the car makes funny noises when they change down gears or accelerate at 1000 revs. A proper manual car is far from idiot proof if you are trying to drive fast on most roads.
I think my wife summed it up - she said my car reminds her of her old 2CV. We both understood it as a compliment. Never even occurred to either of us to make the comparison with the PDK car that preceded it. Almost nobody wants a 2CV for £100k; they want a PlayStation, push button rocket ship that flatters them from the moment they press the engine starter (as though turning a key was difficult or quaint).
For me different cars suit different gearboxes. My manual GTS works well for me because I want maximum input, a chance to improve my driving skills including footwork every time I use that car. I never use it for efficiency as other cars in the stable do that. If I wanted another turbo (which I don't) PDK suits well as you want efficient bonkers performance and things happen so quickly changing gear would be a distraction. I think the crop of current super cars with c600 bhp would probably not work as manuals for the same reason (but also do not work on the road as fun cars for me either as they are just too capable). I have 2 autos and one is a Maserati GranTurismo MC Shift. For many, not a great gearbox but for me it works well as an involving auto that you need to think about to get the most from it. Again, this provides the involvement for me, not pure speed. If I wanted a track car and wanted to focus on car control at the limit, then a PDK type box would probably be my choice to be quickest on the block. There is no wrong or right answer for everyone
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Sorry cmoose, I'll try not to hit that nerve again it's obviously a sore one 
You seem to have gotten a bee in your bonnet about auto's and that 'real drivers' have manuals - something of a tedious mantra on PH, but as I say if, that's you like that's good. Pro's and con's, freedom of choice and I personally prefer a PDK - that is allowed you know
c4sman said:
For me different cars suit different gearboxes. My manual GTS works well for me because I want maximum input, a chance to improve my driving skills including footwork every time I use that car. I never use it for efficiency as other cars in the stable do that. If I wanted another turbo (which I don't) PDK suits well as you want efficient bonkers performance and things happen so quickly changing gear would be a distraction. I think the crop of current super cars with c600 bhp would probably not work as manuals for the same reason (but also do not work on the road as fun cars for me either as they are just too capable). I have 2 autos and one is a Maserati GranTurismo MC Shift. For many, not a great gearbox but for me it works well as an involving auto that you need to think about to get the most from it. Again, this provides the involvement for me, not pure speed. If I wanted a track car and wanted to focus on car control at the limit, then a PDK type box would probably be my choice to be quickest on the block. There is no wrong or right answer for everyone
100% agree good post. Coming from BMW M3's before 911's I never fancied the SMG box and as well I think a lot of guys on here would dismiss the old tiptronic box - I know when I had my 997 turbo even though the tip was prob a bit quicker I never considered it. One of the reasons I think if you look values on 996/997 tips vs manuals its clear what people prefer and seek but on gen 2 997's even with Manual certainly being rarer, when I was buying my GTS in terms of 997.2S and 4S, manuals were coming in cheaper than PDK. PDK is undoubtedly quicker and makes people in general quicker whether it makes them a better driver I think there is more to it personally. Lucky there are so many 911's old and new for people to choose and decide what they like in terms of enjoyment. Bringing the thread back on topic its defo going to be a 997 Turbo S for my next car.
t.A lot listed as "manual" are PDK! Probably PDK fans who think paddles make a car a manual
If you limit the search to 2WD, S or GTS and not a bloody cabrio, there are 7 cars! Of that 7, 1 is a Cat D, and the others are: white, grey, black, white, black and silver. If you dont fancy a monochrome Porsche, you will probably, at any one time, have 2 or 3 for sale in the whole country.
If you limit the search to 2WD, S or GTS and not a bloody cabrio, there are 7 cars! Of that 7, 1 is a Cat D, and the others are: white, grey, black, white, black and silver. If you dont fancy a monochrome Porsche, you will probably, at any one time, have 2 or 3 for sale in the whole country.
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