580BHP 2017 Turbo S/..wow......

[ferdi p]

tuffer said:

ferdi p said:

av185 said:

We are both wrong!......it is the 570S at £145k.

Nope, spec a 540 to TTS levels & you'll hit 145k easily

I spoke to a McL dealer yesterday and a 570S with a normal spec will be £160K, that is without going mad on carbon.

Sounds about right, both 540/570 need about 15/20k of options to match TTS spec...

[Chad_Hugo]

Adam B said:

Agree with Stuttgart7737, for me the turbo peaked in 997 guise so will hang on to my nice manual example. If money was no object I would buy a 997 turbo s not a 991 turbo, impressive though I am sure it is

Edited by Adam B on Monday 14th December 09:19

+1

I had an extended drive of a 991 Turbo S not too long after buying my 997 Turbo S- looked bloated and a bit panamera-esque, on the road it did not feel as agile or involving, felt a step further removed from the driver. On a average UK A/B road did not feel any difference in performance roughly within the legal limits. Sure, on a track using launch control it is faster,- so what? How often do we use launch control on a track? Turbo is not a track car, 90% would never see a track, mine being one of the 90%.

The difference was around 30K to trade up- I was offered a good deal which would have cut this down a bit but it still made absolutely no sense. The 997 Turbo S is also the last limited edition, where the 'S' means something in terms of rarity and production numbers.

Introduced in 2010 and produced for just 2 years, (997 Turbo launched in 2006), while the 911 Turbo S was for sale the same day as the standard turbo!

The 991 Turbo S .1 or .2 is just too expensive in my opinion as good as it probably is, if I do sell my 997 Turbo S it would not be for a uglier Turbo S that is a bit faster and a lot more expensive- I would be looking at a MP4-12C if I do look in that price bracket.

[Tony 1234]

Chad_Hugo said:

I would be looking at a MP4-12C if I do look in that price bracket.

Brave man, I take it you live close to a McLaren dealership as the reliability on a 12C is miles behind a turbo S, on the plus side of course you'll soon be on first name terms with their receptionist.

Ex 12C owner and back in a 991

[9e 28]

Tony 1234 said:

Chad_Hugo said:

I would be looking at a MP4-12C if I do look in that price bracket.

Brave man, I take it you live close to a McLaren dealership as the reliability on a 12C is miles behind a turbo S, on the plus side of course you'll soon be on first name terms with their receptionist.

Ex 12C owner and back in a 991

Were the last 12C i.e. 2013/14 cars not much improved? Were they niggles or serious issues i.e. car let you down? 12C does look like value now - very easy to tune and make even quicker!

[TB993tt]

Chad_Hugo said:

The 997 Turbo S is also the last limited edition, where the 'S' means something in terms of rarity and production numbers.

Introduced in 2010 and produced for just 2 years, (997 Turbo launched in 2006), while the 911 Turbo S was for sale the same day as the standard turbo!

That is a fascinating take on the turbo "S", the fact you say it "means" something in terms of rarity and production numbers.

Apart from the 965 turbo S, the S models from 993 onwards were never limited edition and were really used by Porsche as run out models at the end of production, pretty much a parts bin job with no weight saving measures (which were reserved for the limited ed cars) I don't think Porsche ever intended the S models to be what the second hand market thinks they are now hence why they introduced the the 991 turbo S alongside the regular version.

I would say that the previous models, 993/6 and 7 turbo S are "rare" as you say because they were run out models with low sales as people were waiting for the new model.

[GT3ZZZ]

Tony 1234 said:

Brave man, I take it you live close to a McLaren dealership as the reliability on a 12C is miles behind a turbo S, on the plus side of course you'll soon be on first name terms with their receptionist.

Ex 12C owner and back in a 991

Had my 12C Spider since new in June 2013 and its never missed a beat, most reliable car I've ever had. Meanwhile my first 991 (GT3) spent 4 months laid up with a chocolate engine!

[Tony 1234]

GT3ZZZ said:

Tony 1234 said:

Brave man, I take it you live close to a McLaren dealership as the reliability on a 12C is miles behind a turbo S, on the plus side of course you'll soon be on first name terms with their receptionist.

Ex 12C owner and back in a 991

Had my 12C Spider since new in June 2013 and its never missed a beat, most reliable car I've ever had. Meanwhile my first 991 (GT3) spent 4 months laid up with a chocolate engine!

Wow, IMO you've a very rare car indeed (if not telling porkies )

[TrackTwit]

Having done 70,000 miles in a 997 Turbo inc over 30 track days in it I would take my 991 Turbo S over it every time for all and any trips.

McLaren is a different kind of fun.

Both brands are the dogs dangles, should not be belittled by people trying to say one is better than the other IMO, both have stunning machines coming out of their factories right now. Enjoy them both people.

[9e 28]

TrackTwit said:

Having done 70,000 miles in a 997 Turbo inc over 30 track days in it I would take my 991 Turbo S over it every time for all and any trips.

McLaren is a different kind of fun.

Both brands are the dogs dangles, should not be belittled by people trying to say one is better than the other IMO, both have stunning machines coming out of their factories right now. Enjoy them both people.

At a technical level its not fair really to compare the 997 and 991. 997T has its roots in 996 on a chassis design that was designed in mid 90's. Tech has moved on and 991 is an amazing all rounder based on the latest tech out there. In fact i'd go as far as to wager an average driver with some track experience in a 991T would be able to beat a pro driver in 997T around a track like the West or GT circuit at Bedford. I still wouldn't swap a 997 for a 991 though. Like others I'd be looking at a used Macca or Fezza at £150k + . I can't understand why the new 991T is £160k with a few extras or see where the extra money is going over the older gen 997 I'm afraid in terms of where the 911t is in the market - fabulous car but its still only a 911.

You can improve your 997 or 996 though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSgqHWunipc

[9e 28]

Just so 996t owners do not feel left out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Isg1FZZAw

Amazing engine in mezger 996t and 997t especially if you send it to a reputable tuner to unleash what they're really capable of - Porsche massively detuned it

[Chad_Hugo]

TB993tt said:

Chad_Hugo said:

The 997 Turbo S is also the last limited edition, where the 'S' means something in terms of rarity and production numbers.

Introduced in 2010 and produced for just 2 years, (997 Turbo launched in 2006), while the 911 Turbo S was for sale the same day as the standard turbo!

That is a fascinating take on the turbo "S", the fact you say it "means" something in terms of rarity and production numbers.

Apart from the 965 turbo S, the S models from 993 onwards were never limited edition and were really used by Porsche as run out models at the end of production, pretty much a parts bin job with no weight saving measures (which were reserved for the limited ed cars) I don't think Porsche ever intended the S models to be what the second hand market thinks they are now hence why they introduced the the 991 turbo S alongside the regular version.

I would say that the previous models, 993/6 and 7 turbo S are "rare" as you say because they were run out models with low sales as people were waiting for the new model.

It's not my 'take' on it. It's a fact plain and simple- 2000 997 Turbo S cars were produced from 2010-2012. That is a small % of the total number of 997 non S Turbo's which were produced worldwide. A massive portion of the Turbo S cars went to the USA. Even if the 2000 figure is slightly out, it's still a limited production run, less were made than the standard Turbo.

In fact, when the 997.2 was introduced in 2009, quite a few customers did not buy/wanted to cancel orders as the S model was imminent, so your wrong on your last point as well- the 991 Turbo S was not out until 2013 so certainly being buying the car were not waiting for it.

I don't think people were waiting for 3 years for the 991...since the main step up was arguably from gen 1 to gen 2 anyway.

[tuffer]

Chad_Hugo said:

TB993tt said:

Chad_Hugo said:

The 997 Turbo S is also the last limited edition, where the 'S' means something in terms of rarity and production numbers.

Introduced in 2010 and produced for just 2 years, (997 Turbo launched in 2006), while the 911 Turbo S was for sale the same day as the standard turbo!

That is a fascinating take on the turbo "S", the fact you say it "means" something in terms of rarity and production numbers.

Apart from the 965 turbo S, the S models from 993 onwards were never limited edition and were really used by Porsche as run out models at the end of production, pretty much a parts bin job with no weight saving measures (which were reserved for the limited ed cars) I don't think Porsche ever intended the S models to be what the second hand market thinks they are now hence why they introduced the the 991 turbo S alongside the regular version.

I would say that the previous models, 993/6 and 7 turbo S are "rare" as you say because they were run out models with low sales as people were waiting for the new model.

It's not my 'take' on it. It's a fact plain and simple- 2000 997 Turbo S cars were produced from 2010-2012. That is a small % of the total number of 997 non S Turbo's which were produced worldwide. A massive portion of the Turbo S cars went to the USA. Even if the 2000 figure is slightly out, it's still a limited production run, less were made than the standard Turbo.

In fact, when the 997.2 was introduced in 2009, quite a few customers did not buy/wanted to cancel orders as the S model was imminent, so your wrong on your last point as well- the 991 Turbo S was not out until 2013 so certainly being buying the car were not waiting for it.

I don't think people were waiting for 3 years for the 991...since the main step up was arguably from gen 1 to gen 2 anyway.

I am not sure the Turbo S is "limited", more the fact that there are not that many people who are in the market for the car. They are pretty much built to order, if 1,500 put down a deposit then that is what they would make (time and build slots permitting). Purely my take on it so feel free to correct me in typical PH fashion.

[Adam B]

Correct - the 997.2 turbo S was not a limited edition, it was produced in limited numbers due to the short time frame it was available for sale.

Like the 993/996/997 it was a run-out special so by definition only produced in last few years of that model's existence

whereas 991 turbo S was available from the start of the 991 range, so I agree production numbers will less limited than if it were introduced later on in the 991.1 lifecycle

[StuH]

Slippydiff said:

Hmmm, apart from the small issues you've highlighted there's the small matter of this :



There's something not right about that, I can't quite put my finger on it, so just give me a second to think about it .....














Ah yes, got it now...




It's utterly f*cking grotesque

But the Yanks and City boys will love 'em and Porsche will no doubt sell them by the truck load

I love the proportions

[Chad_Hugo]

Adam B said:

Correct - the 997.2 turbo S was not a limited edition, it was produced in limited numbers due to the short time frame it was available for sale.

Like the 993/996/997 it was a run-out special so by definition only produced in last few years of that model's existence

whereas 991 turbo S was available from the start of the 991 range, so I agree production numbers will less limited than if it were introduced later on in the 991.1 lifecycle

That was more or less what I was trying to say- 997 Turbo S was produced in limited numbers (2000 globally), and was available for a shorter space of time. Run out special/limited edition- different choice of words perhaps your wording is better?, my main point was it is and will be a lot rarer than the 991 Turbo S which was for sale from day one together with the standard Turbo, in the same way a 996 Turbo S is much rarer and less produced than a standard 996 Turbo.

[tuffer]

So, just expressed an interest in a 991.2 Turbo S, looks like September delivery Any ideas on how I might find a dealer with an earlier slot?