total ownership costs compared
Discussion
Depends - how many miles are you going to do and are you servicing independently or in an OPC?
Depending on the above you could be looking at between £0 and £15,000+ on the range of cars you've questioned.
Assuming 5,000 miles in a year (if this is not your main car).
996 independent garage. Good one say £12k, just serviced, drive for 9 months and be lucky without servicing, sell for £12k. Cost £0.
997 at £18k you're looking at a high milage car, so allow £2,500 for a problem and fix, drive for 9 months, sell for £18k
997 Mk II at £35k, also allow £2,500 for a fix, drive for 9 months and sell for £33k?
This assumes 996s are at the bottom of the curve pretty much. 997s settle higher than 996s and in the longer term the 997 Mk IIs settle higher than the 997 mk Is.
If you can afford the Mk II I'd buy that. It's a better car and the running costs/depreciation are only marginally more expensive than an early 997, with less risk associated with the engine.
The breadth of your post indicates you have a lot of thinking to do, as there is such a range in the price of the cars queried that the running costs/depreciation factor is a fringe issue compared to the car itself.
Depending on the above you could be looking at between £0 and £15,000+ on the range of cars you've questioned.
Assuming 5,000 miles in a year (if this is not your main car).
996 independent garage. Good one say £12k, just serviced, drive for 9 months and be lucky without servicing, sell for £12k. Cost £0.
997 at £18k you're looking at a high milage car, so allow £2,500 for a problem and fix, drive for 9 months, sell for £18k
997 Mk II at £35k, also allow £2,500 for a fix, drive for 9 months and sell for £33k?
This assumes 996s are at the bottom of the curve pretty much. 997s settle higher than 996s and in the longer term the 997 Mk IIs settle higher than the 997 mk Is.
If you can afford the Mk II I'd buy that. It's a better car and the running costs/depreciation are only marginally more expensive than an early 997, with less risk associated with the engine.
The breadth of your post indicates you have a lot of thinking to do, as there is such a range in the price of the cars queried that the running costs/depreciation factor is a fringe issue compared to the car itself.
Tydeides said:
Depends - how many miles are you going to do and are you servicing independently or in an OPC?
Depending on the above you could be looking at between £0 and £15,000+ on the range of cars you've questioned.
Assuming 5,000 miles in a year (if this is not your main car).
996 independent garage. Good one say £12k, just serviced, drive for 9 months and be lucky without servicing, sell for £12k. Cost £0.
997 at £18k you're looking at a high milage car, so allow £2,500 for a problem and fix, drive for 9 months, sell for £18k
997 Mk II at £35k, also allow £2,500 for a fix, drive for 9 months and sell for £33k?
This assumes 996s are at the bottom of the curve pretty much. 997s settle higher than 996s and in the longer term the 997 Mk IIs settle higher than the 997 mk Is.
If you can afford the Mk II I'd buy that. It's a better car and the running costs/depreciation are only marginally more expensive than an early 997, with less risk associated with the engine.
The breadth of your post indicates you have a lot of thinking to do, as there is such a range in the price of the cars queried that the running costs/depreciation factor is a fringe issue compared to the car itself.
dam good summary IMO, I was considering the first two options a year ago and went for a 997.1 but I think as a long term purchase where any significant issues can be seen in the round of 5+ years ownership they are a good bet, but as a one year wonder they and for that matter a 996 may sting with a big bill and no warranty, so that leaves a 997.2 at £35k seeming the most risk adverse option, although that assumes residuals stay high Depending on the above you could be looking at between £0 and £15,000+ on the range of cars you've questioned.
Assuming 5,000 miles in a year (if this is not your main car).
996 independent garage. Good one say £12k, just serviced, drive for 9 months and be lucky without servicing, sell for £12k. Cost £0.
997 at £18k you're looking at a high milage car, so allow £2,500 for a problem and fix, drive for 9 months, sell for £18k
997 Mk II at £35k, also allow £2,500 for a fix, drive for 9 months and sell for £33k?
This assumes 996s are at the bottom of the curve pretty much. 997s settle higher than 996s and in the longer term the 997 Mk IIs settle higher than the 997 mk Is.
If you can afford the Mk II I'd buy that. It's a better car and the running costs/depreciation are only marginally more expensive than an early 997, with less risk associated with the engine.
The breadth of your post indicates you have a lot of thinking to do, as there is such a range in the price of the cars queried that the running costs/depreciation factor is a fringe issue compared to the car itself.
Buzzfan said:
Any suggestions which would cost me less in running costs & depreciation over 12 months, assuming I was buying from a reputable independent dealer ?
A low mileage £12-15k 996, an early 997 c £ 18-22k, or a Gen 2 for £ 32-35k?
Although running costs would not vary much across the board, the major difference would be depreciation. The early 996 would probably give a better return as it moves towards classic status. So, as always, condition,condition,condition, buy the best you can afford and cherish it for a good return.A low mileage £12-15k 996, an early 997 c £ 18-22k, or a Gen 2 for £ 32-35k?
As a short term proposition I would buy the newer car. They are all holding their values well. My experience is that once cars have got to 5-6 years old they start presenting bills. You would be more annoyed at spending a load of money fixing a car you are about to sell that the inevitability of losing some on depreciation.
They could all cost the same overall, plus you have the added chance of engine failure on the 996 and 997.1
They could all cost the same overall, plus you have the added chance of engine failure on the 996 and 997.1
I had exactly the same dilemma last October and found it really difficult making a decision because you're not comparing "apples with apples" due to the massive difference in original purchase price... In the end I discounted the 996 because I'm quite tall and the 997 has a slightly more spacious interior and went for a 997.1 C2 because I found the engine to have more character than the 997.2 and was more fun to drive in my opinion. I would probably have gone for the newer car if I was doing more miles, but I've only covered 4,000 in 15 months.
Once I had decided on the 997.1 I tried a number of C2S models but went back to the original C2 that I looked at because it was in great condition, seemed like good value and drove really well. The engine has also got a nicer sound to it and is plenty fast enough.
In terms of costs, the only expense I had in 12 months was 2 new rear tyres due to a puncture. Not bad! Although I've just had to spend about £2k replacing shocks and air con radiators. Then I'll need a service next month which will probably be another £1k. On the plus side though I reckon the cars worth slightly more than when I bought it. I reckon I'll keep it for another year or so.
Good luck with your search!!
Once I had decided on the 997.1 I tried a number of C2S models but went back to the original C2 that I looked at because it was in great condition, seemed like good value and drove really well. The engine has also got a nicer sound to it and is plenty fast enough.
In terms of costs, the only expense I had in 12 months was 2 new rear tyres due to a puncture. Not bad! Although I've just had to spend about £2k replacing shocks and air con radiators. Then I'll need a service next month which will probably be another £1k. On the plus side though I reckon the cars worth slightly more than when I bought it. I reckon I'll keep it for another year or so.
Good luck with your search!!
I purchased a £12-15k 996 C2 manual (3.6 02 plate) a year ago, and have done between 15-20k miles so far.
I would say that these cars are reasonable to run if you are going to do basic work yourself, and you don't fall foul of the 996 roulette of IMS/scored bores.
Off the top of my head I have spent:
1) £85 for a new Bosch crank sensor, after the original started to fail when up to temperature.
2) £220 on 6 coil packs and spark plugs (one in particular is "interesting" to change!)
3) £15 clutch/brake switch
4) £150 (can't remember) for a water pump and belt when the old one started to squeak
5) £85ish for oil and oil filter (Mobile 1 and OEM filter)
6) £20 on various plastic clips/fasteners from OPC where the plastic has become brittle with age
My MOT is due shortly and I will need 4 new tyres (about £500-600?) and I have to turn off/fix my airbag light for which I am trying to find a second hand copy of Durametric, because in my experience once you start chasing those lights, once they are "off" they will at some point come back on again!
I would say that these cars are reasonable to run if you are going to do basic work yourself, and you don't fall foul of the 996 roulette of IMS/scored bores.
Off the top of my head I have spent:
1) £85 for a new Bosch crank sensor, after the original started to fail when up to temperature.
2) £220 on 6 coil packs and spark plugs (one in particular is "interesting" to change!)
3) £15 clutch/brake switch
4) £150 (can't remember) for a water pump and belt when the old one started to squeak
5) £85ish for oil and oil filter (Mobile 1 and OEM filter)
6) £20 on various plastic clips/fasteners from OPC where the plastic has become brittle with age
My MOT is due shortly and I will need 4 new tyres (about £500-600?) and I have to turn off/fix my airbag light for which I am trying to find a second hand copy of Durametric, because in my experience once you start chasing those lights, once they are "off" they will at some point come back on again!
I was faced with a similar choice to the OP just a few months ago.
The real value amongst those choices is in the 996. This is what I ended up going for. I decided against the 997 as it has the same potential for engine problems as the 996. You can massively reduce the chances of a huge engine bill by buying a 2009 - onwards mk2 997. The problem is, they are in a totally different price bracket.
Having done a bit of research, I decided to search for a car that had already had a full engine rebuild. For £13000 I drove away in a 1998 996 C2 complete with invoices for around £12000 of Hartech engine, just 5k miles prior. A 911 that was (at the time) better than every edition of 911 that had gone before it, complete with a cast iron guarantee from (arguably) the best people in the business.
I've now covered around 8000 miles in the car. The engine runs like a little sewing machine, and doesn't burn a drop of oil. They are incredible value for money, and wonderful cars to use on a daily basis. I drive around 20k miles a year, and am happy to report back with detailed running costs if anyone is interested. So far I've been really impressed.
I'd recommend searching out a car that's already had a rebuild. Surprisingly they don't fetch much of a premium over a non-rebuilt car. I reckon I paid about £2k extra for mine, compared to what was available on the market at the time.
Ignore the naysayers, most of them will never have even driven a 996. Just as a comparison: once I got my hands on the 996, my BMW M135i sat in the corner of my driveway like a sulking child. I barely used that car again, and ended up sending it back six months early. I still find it incredible that an (almost) 18 year old Porsche can feel so superior to a modern performance BMW.
The real value amongst those choices is in the 996. This is what I ended up going for. I decided against the 997 as it has the same potential for engine problems as the 996. You can massively reduce the chances of a huge engine bill by buying a 2009 - onwards mk2 997. The problem is, they are in a totally different price bracket.
Having done a bit of research, I decided to search for a car that had already had a full engine rebuild. For £13000 I drove away in a 1998 996 C2 complete with invoices for around £12000 of Hartech engine, just 5k miles prior. A 911 that was (at the time) better than every edition of 911 that had gone before it, complete with a cast iron guarantee from (arguably) the best people in the business.
I've now covered around 8000 miles in the car. The engine runs like a little sewing machine, and doesn't burn a drop of oil. They are incredible value for money, and wonderful cars to use on a daily basis. I drive around 20k miles a year, and am happy to report back with detailed running costs if anyone is interested. So far I've been really impressed.
I'd recommend searching out a car that's already had a rebuild. Surprisingly they don't fetch much of a premium over a non-rebuilt car. I reckon I paid about £2k extra for mine, compared to what was available on the market at the time.
Ignore the naysayers, most of them will never have even driven a 996. Just as a comparison: once I got my hands on the 996, my BMW M135i sat in the corner of my driveway like a sulking child. I barely used that car again, and ended up sending it back six months early. I still find it incredible that an (almost) 18 year old Porsche can feel so superior to a modern performance BMW.
Some further background which might help.
In April 2013 I picked up a 997.1 C4S Cab, 40k miles, with an OPC warranty running until June 2016. It's a 56 plate and was first registered in January 2007 so is exactly 9 years old now.
Since April 2013 we have almost doubled the mileage, it's now at 77k miles, and so far the meaningful costs are as follows:
New clutch - £850.
New Tyres - £1000 - Michelin PS2s (including alignment).
Minor Service at 60k miles - £750 OPC.
Major Service at 8 years old - £630 Indy (including spark plug change).
Replace Both AC Condensers - £1000 Indy (using genuine parts to maintain warranty).
Replace LH F and RH R Shock Absorbers - £1400 Indy (an OPC did the RH F and LH R under warranty).
So in 32 months and 37k of miles its cost £5630 (plus fuel, tax, and insurance).
In April 2013 I picked up a 997.1 C4S Cab, 40k miles, with an OPC warranty running until June 2016. It's a 56 plate and was first registered in January 2007 so is exactly 9 years old now.
Since April 2013 we have almost doubled the mileage, it's now at 77k miles, and so far the meaningful costs are as follows:
New clutch - £850.
New Tyres - £1000 - Michelin PS2s (including alignment).
Minor Service at 60k miles - £750 OPC.
Major Service at 8 years old - £630 Indy (including spark plug change).
Replace Both AC Condensers - £1000 Indy (using genuine parts to maintain warranty).
Replace LH F and RH R Shock Absorbers - £1400 Indy (an OPC did the RH F and LH R under warranty).
So in 32 months and 37k of miles its cost £5630 (plus fuel, tax, and insurance).
Edited by DangerDoom on Saturday 2nd January 21:16
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