996 GT3 bucket seats

[SignalGruen]

Hello all,

Looking for a pair (or even a single) GT3 bucket seat(s). If anyone knows of any or where I can source these then please let me know.

Cheers.

[siheb]

There's a single CS nomex one currently for sale on 911UK. Ad says "make me an offer"..

[SignalGruen]

siheb said:

There's a single CS nomex one currently for sale on 911UK. Ad says "make me an offer"..

Thanks. Was a bit too slow on that one and it's now sold.

[Onetrackmind]

Design 911 has a range of replica gt3 seats

[Slippydiff]

Onetrackmind said:

Design 911 has a range of replica gt3 seats

I feel another groundhog day esque experience in the making here.

[Richie200]

Slippydiff said:

Onetrackmind said:

Design 911 has a range of replica gt3 seats

I feel another groundhog day esque experience in the making here.

Care to explain H, are the Design911 ones no good? reason being I was thinking about trying their 6.5Kg Carbon Alcantara ones

[lemmingjames]

Long story short is that theres 2 camps of thought on here;
Camp 1 - seats are no good, arent proven, no crash data and will snap in an accident
Camp 2 - seats are good, must have some credibility to be sold in a shop in the UK.

I was/am interested in the split folding bucket seats so did a bit of digging and couldnt find any crash data and D911 didnt have any either. This may have changed now though.

im camp 1.5 if you like

[Richie200]

If it is due to crash data than that is not a concern to me; just think about the amount of forces needed to be involved in a crash to bend the chassis enough to effect the seat mounting points. In a crash of this magnitude how the seat performs is the least of my concerns. I also don't go around basing my purchases on something that is statistically not going to happen to me in my life time.
A Carbon seat at 6.5kg, no matter it's origin (Porsche or D911) doesn't have the mass of material to offer a great deal of structural integrity.
My concerns are whether through normal use (wear and tear), the materials used in the D911 seat are significantly inferior???

[SignalGruen]

Onetrackmind said:

Design 911 has a range of replica gt3 seats

Would prefer genuine seats otherwise I'd simply get something like a Recaro SPG etc.

[lemmingjames]

Richie200 said:

If it is due to crash data than that is not a concern to me; just think about the amount of forces needed to be involved in a crash to bend the chassis enough to effect the seat mounting points. In a crash of this magnitude how the seat performs is the least of my concerns. I also don't go around basing my purchases on something that is statistically not going to happen to me in my life time.
A Carbon seat at 6.5kg, no matter it's origin (Porsche or D911) doesn't have the mass of material to offer a great deal of structural integrity.

And this is what caused the 'debate' last time as theres videos on the net showing 'replicas' shearing at the joints (ok, this is a normal folding seat but i think ive seen Bride replica buckets snapping at the bit that bolts the seat to the subframe) due to using inferior metal in the production with not alot of force. Now these video seats might be cheap chinese knock-offs and the D911 ones arent i dont know

Then there has been some real life experience of people on here where the cars have been fked up but the seats remained intact due to being oem. Now whether the force of the impact was enough to reach the seats is another question as you obviously have the cockpit doing its job etc i dont know.

I'll admit that ive not stripped down an oem seat (6 GT3 Buckets) so i cant comment on if theres any structure to it or if its just a one piece 'smooth' design. As you do have the all metal race seats that you can buy that dont look to have any extra structure but again ive not looked into it and cba if truth be told

Edited by lemmingjames on Thursday 7th January 15:50

[thegreenhell]

I don't think it's a question of the crash forces going directly through the chassis to the seat mountings and causing damage that way. Depending on the direction of the force, just the sudden movement of the mass of the human strapped into the seat can be enough to break it.

For example, say you spun backwards into a wall or armco, or even just got heavily rear-ended on the roads, and had a 10 G deceleration (just guessing, but F1 crashes can often be 50 G or more), then a 100 kg driver would put a 1 tonne force directly on the seat back. How confident would you be in your untested replica Chinese-made seat to hold together and hold you in position in the car in that situation?

[Richie200]

lemmingjames said:

Richie200 said:

If it is due to crash data then that is not a concern to me; just think about the amount of forces needed to be involved in a crash to bend the chassis enough to effect the seat mounting points. In a crash of this magnitude how the seat performs is the least of my concerns. I also don't go around basing my purchases on something that is statistically not going to happen to me in my life time.
A Carbon seat at 6.5kg, no matter it's origin (Porsche or D911) doesn't have the mass of material to offer a great deal of structural integrity.

And this is what caused the 'debate' last time as theres videos on the net showing 'replicas' shearing at the joints (ok, this is a normal folding seat but i think ive seen Bride replica buckets snapping at the bit that bolts the seat to the subframe) due to using inferior metal in the production with not alot of force. Now these video seats might be cheap chinese knock-offs and the D911 ones arent i dont know

Then there has been some real life experience of people on here where the cars have been fked up but the seats remained intact due to being oem. Now whether the force of the impact was enough to reach the seats is another question as you obviously have the cockpit doing its job etc i dont know.

I'll admit that ive not stripped down an oem seat (6 GT3 Buckets) so i cant comment on if theres any structure to it or if its just a one piece 'smooth' design. As you do have the all metal race seats that you can buy that dont look to have any extra structure but again ive not looked into it and cba if truth be told

The only differences between the OEM and D911 seat is one has been through a controlled test process and the other most likely hasn't. Nobody knows for sure how the D911/Replica seats would fair in the same controlled test as it has never been done. A story of somebody in a random crash, with the OEM seat surviving and someone else having a completely different random crash with a replica seat not fairing so well doesn't mean a thing. The replica seat could be stronger for all anyone here knows.
If the replica seats are visually different (like 90% lacquer 10% Carbon) then it will be obvious that they are inferior quality/structural integrity.
To meet the regulatory requirement to pass FIA approval or DIN/Porsche OEM requirements, costs serious money. Branding and advertising costs serious money. For me, this is where most of the difference in price comes from and until verified by actual test data proving that one is stronger than the other, I see little reason to be dissuaded from the Non-OEM seat.
Having never actually seen the replica, I could be miles out and there could be obvious design flaws. A simple sit in one and force/bend areas of the seat in different directions to measure distortion/flex/response in comparison to the OEM seat, maybe a simple tap test to check for de-lam, a visual check for air bubbles or inferior Carbon weave/how the weave was laid should be enough to see where the differences are. My guess is the quality of stitching or covering material will be where (if any) the differences lie. The actual seat frame is probably very similar and made using the same technique.

Edited by Richie200 on Friday 8th January 08:57

[ttdan]

Its like most things in life, you pays your money and takes your choices. However, there is a pretty well defined saftey test by the FIA to guide those of us that can't tell just by looking, personally i would look for FIA approved as a minimum in a replacement bucket for a car that will see track time. These dont have to be hugely expensive either. Add to that my experience of that particular outlet would probably have me looking elsewhere anyway.

[aceparts]

I wouldn't buy a 'fake' seat no matter what. If the car goes backwards into something hard then the seat mounts will take the full force of supporting you. I would have thought that how the nuts are built into the seat is the number one consideration and totally impossible to judge by simply flexing / looking at the stitching.

[Slippydiff]

thegreenhell said:

I don't think it's a question of the crash forces going directly through the chassis to the seat mountings and causing damage that way. Depending on the direction of the force, just the sudden movement of the mass of the human strapped into the seat can be enough to break it.

For example, say you spun backwards into a wall or armco, or even just got heavily rear-ended on the roads, and had a 10 G deceleration (just guessing, but F1 crashes can often be 50 G or more), then a 100 kg driver would put a 1 tonne force directly on the seat back. How confident would you be in your untested replica Chinese-made seat to hold together and hold you in position in the car in that situation?

This ^ Precisely.

Or :

Francois Delecour, Mitsubishi Lancer, Australian round of the WRC in 2002, 88g impact into a tree :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxeqZF36CYc

If the cage does it's job, a high quality seat, correctly mounted, is instrumental in surviving a big shunt unhurt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifeaDdl8B_Y

End of.

[nigelonich]

Slippydiff said:

I feel another groundhog day esque experience in the making here.

You were right.

[Richie200]

nigelonich said:

Slippydiff said:

I feel another groundhog day esque experience in the making here.

You were right.

Sorry guys, I didn't see it first time round

[SignalGruen]

FYI for those in a similar predicament, everything listed on teile.com is unavailable barring the Boxster red seats which can be had for 7k Euro. Looks like importing from the States may be my only option.

[poppopbangbang]

I had the GT3 rep seats in my old 996 a couple of years ago. I had the seat shells ultrasonically tested at work to see what the quality of the carbon was and it's actually surprisingly good with regards layup, ply drops and embedded structures. China can do some decent carbon (as witnessed by the fact that Chinese carbon companies are now OE to Aston and Porsche amongst others). I wouldn't worry about them the way people on this thread are.

[aceparts]

poppopbangbang said:

I had the GT3 rep seats in my old 996 a couple of years ago. I had the seat shells ultrasonically tested at work to see what the quality of the carbon was and it's actually surprisingly good with regards layup, ply drops and embedded structures. China can do some decent carbon (as witnessed by the fact that Chinese carbon companies are now OE to Aston and Porsche amongst others). I wouldn't worry about them the way people on this thread are.

I agree - so long as they're approved. Every chinese seller on ebay will say his company makes the seats for porsche etc....