996 GT3 bucket seats
Discussion
poppopbangbang said:
I had the GT3 rep seats in my old 996 a couple of years ago. I had the seat shells ultrasonically tested at work to see what the quality of the carbon was and it's actually surprisingly good with regards layup, ply drops and embedded structures. China can do some decent carbon (as witnessed by the fact that Chinese carbon companies are now OE to Aston and Porsche amongst others). I wouldn't worry about them the way people on this thread are.
Fine if you want to cruise around posing, but if you decide to use a 190 mph car as it's makers intended, and the worst should happen, I'll take the certified, made by Recaro items over some cheap nasty non certified seats knocked up in someone's shed. Try doing some proper impact tests (either by crashing in the originals, as I've done) or using the certified testing techniques on the Chinese knockoffs and the oe items back to back, then come back to us with your findings.
Plenty of wheels out there that look like decent enough reps of high end brands, but come that first pothole strike your cost cutting doesn't look so smart.
I wouldn't be scrimping on something so safety critical, irrespective of what you may say ....
SignalGruen said:
Would prefer genuine seats otherwise I'd simply get something like a Recaro SPG etc.
What happened to the original seats or is it a comfort that you're converting? If the latter then I'd go with SPG XL as I guess you're modding so it's better for track or do you want to do a clubsport re-creation? Hope to see it this year! 
boxsey said:
SignalGruen said:
Would prefer genuine seats otherwise I'd simply get something like a Recaro SPG etc.
What happened to the original seats or is it a comfort that you're converting? If the latter then I'd go with SPG XL as I guess you're modding so it's better for track rather or do you want to do a clubsport re-creation? Hope to see it this year! 
Slippydiff said:
Fine if you want to cruise around posing, but if you decide to use a 190 mph car as it's makers intended, and the worst should happen, I'll take the certified, made by Recaro items over some cheap nasty non certified seats knocked up in someone's shed.
Well my current 996 has 287K miles on it and it's on circuit every ten days on average...... I'm not sure if that's what Porsche intended but it does a pretty good job of it. Slippydiff said:
Try doing some proper impact tests (either by crashing in the originals, as I've done) or using the certified testing techniques on the Chinese knockoffs and the oe items back to back, then come back to us with your findings.
Would they be the same certified testing techniques used to validate hardpoints, layup and bonding in an F1 tub? The same techniques used to validate the yield strength of various bits of Dream Liner, Space X rockets and various off shore powerboats amongst other things..... if so yep done that. Have a read here https://compositesuk.co.uk/system/files/documents/... if you want to understand a little more about NDT systems for composites. poppopbangbang said:
Well my current 996 has 287K miles on it and it's on circuit every ten days on average...... I'm not sure if that's what Porsche intended but it does a pretty good job of it.
Let's hope you never have to put your seats to the acid test then eh ? poppopbangbang said:
Would they be the same certified testing techniques used to validate hardpoints, layup and bonding in an F1 tub? The same techniques used to validate the yield strength of various bits of Dream Liner, Space X rockets and various off shore powerboats amongst other things..... if so yep done that. Have a read here https://compositesuk.co.uk/system/files/documents/... if you want to understand a little more about NDT systems for composites.
An interesting read And on the face of it yours looks like a real sucker punch response doesn't it ?
But in answer to your question, no, I'm talking the very specific FIA impact tests used for all FIA approved seats, which I suspect are very different to the NDT you're discussing.
Slippydiff said:
An interesting read
And on the face of it yours looks like a real sucker punch response doesn't it ?
But in answer to your question, no, I'm talking the very specific FIA impact tests used for all FIA approved seats, which I suspect are very different to the NDT you're discussing.
You're talking about 8855-1999 Homologation then which does include some impact tests. The same impact tests that allow you so much flex in the seat back that you can bounch it off the harness mounting posts which are 150mm away and still pass (i.e. you'd have to do something horrific with your design to create a seat back failure in this test as there is a mechanical stop limiting seat shell flex)? The same one that puts far to much focus on the design of mounting hard points being to the FIAs spec and not how they are retained/bonded into the seat shell? The same test that will allow a permanent deformation in the seat shell but considers it a fail if there is any fracturing or seperation of the shell.And on the face of it yours looks like a real sucker punch response doesn't it ?
But in answer to your question, no, I'm talking the very specific FIA impact tests used for all FIA approved seats, which I suspect are very different to the NDT you're discussing.
This test - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWQxIIWOqpE - that seat passed by the way!
The test that has resulted in hooky, nasty and down right dangerous seats achieving homologation and then having the FIA back pedal furiously when many, many people have pointed out quite how dangerous they are or the odd competitor who headed out never to return as a result of them? Seats like this - http://www.fia.com/news/withdrawal-fia-approved-sa... or of course the fact that Recaro can't manage to maintain sufficent line quality to ensure it's seats actually meet 8855-1999 consistently http://www.fia.com/news/withdrawal-fia-approved-sa...
8855-1999 is a bit of a joke and you can design a seat shell to pass it (accidently or on purpose) that in the real world is dangerous or becomes dangerous due to lack of line quality. With regards the Bimarco seat above ten minutes with a US NDT kit and any decent composites guy could have told you how the hard points were retained, what the failure point would be in a front/rear/lateral impact, what the layup was, how consistent the layup was across the shell, how it was cured and what its approximate strength and deformation would be before failure. As for the Recaro seat it was US NDT that found the layup around the front hardpoints was questionable......
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