996 Turbo X50 Manual - Can't Decide?

[Digga]

When I bought my 996tt last year it had, unbeknownst to me, been mapped previously and, aside from not being the happiest/smoothest of maps, it had raised the rev-limiter to 7,250rpm - thus it was recording Range 2 over-revs if/when on the limiter.

I'm obviously none the wiser as to what effect this will have on:

1. The future value of the car - apropos other comments on here, or
2. The durability of the engine

I've had a re-remap done which is much better and which returns the car to the original 6,750rpm limit, so I'm hoping further Range 2 over-revs are not incurred but, it is interesting to note the opinion of Ken.

As the OP says, having merely two over-rev Ranges is not particularly helpful; the later 4 ranges adopted on the 997 gives more of an idea of downshift over-revs.

[PorscheTB0]

I was lucky enough to have had two 964 RS's over the years which were tracked on a fairly regular basis. Friends of mine also had various RS's at the time so we would drive to the track, do a trackday then drive home again. I never used to worry about the engine blowing up despite hitting the rev limiter on a few occasions and the occasional spin. At the time most of the 964 and 993 RS's were being tracked however engine failures were extremely rare. I wonder how those engines are now although with values as they are they're probably not being tracked as much?

As has been mentioned in a post above we weren't really aware of an over rev issue in those cars. Blissful ignorance perhaps.

Edited by PorscheTB0 on Wednesday 6th January 11:37

Edited by PorscheTB0 on Wednesday 6th January 11:37

[Nineexcellence]

Digga said:

When I bought my 996tt last year it had, unbeknownst to me, been mapped previously and, aside from not being the happiest/smoothest of maps, it had raised the rev-limiter to 7,250rpm - thus it was recording Range 2 over-revs if/when on the limiter.

I'm obviously none the wiser as to what effect this will have on:

1. The future value of the car - apropos other comments on here, or
2. The durability of the engine

I've had a re-remap done which is much better and which returns the car to the original 6,750rpm limit, so I'm hoping further Range 2 over-revs are not incurred but, it is interesting to note the opinion of Ken.

As the OP says, having merely two over-rev Ranges is not particularly helpful; the later 4 ranges adopted on the 997 gives more of an idea of downshift over-revs.

What I can tell you is this - these engines stock can be revved all the time to 7400rpm without issues. We have done extensive testing on this, 10,000 of thousands of miles. We have tried and tested to 7600rpm and not had issues. When we went above 7600rpm on a regularly basis, the problem that arose is the tappets (lifters) in the engine - they are not solid like on the gt3 and the springs breaks.

So having the car regularly to 7250 will have no material impact on the engine based on our extensive experience.

However that does not resolve the fact that the RR2 is being recorded. As I said the problem is that a RR2 value could have been as a result of a money shot. As a dealer, I think you would find that unless there has been a significant (more than 50 hours) since the last record, there will be less buyers.

There are (certainly for us) addition checks that we can perform on the engine (for example ignition angle would be unstable if there is valve damage at certain loads) that allow us to determine how good the engine is. Unfortunately that is very specific knowledge to us, which we do before any tuning for example is done. That is for our own protection as we don't do any tuning without our own internal checks. As you can imagine, if I take a car in for tuning, and it has RR2 ( or RR3/4/5/6 as in the case of 997 Turbos ) I really don't fancy adding stress to a potentially stressed engine.

Ken

[Digga]

Thanks for info Ken - and for the reassurance!

The re-map was done with other service and repair work by Mike at Sports & Classic, at which time the variocam angles were checked and found to be okay. As you say, this is not a simple DIY/non-specialist check though and probably beyond most PPIs for that matter I guess?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the GT3 engines have other different internals to the turbos, in order to allow their higher-rev ranges, which I think includes con rods and possibly the cranks too.

[Nineexcellence]

Digga said:

Thanks for info Ken - and for the reassurance!

The re-map was done with other service and repair work by Mike at Sports & Classic, at which time the variocam angles were checked and found to be okay. As you say, this is not a simple DIY/non-specialist check though and probably beyond most PPIs for that matter I guess?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the GT3 engines have other different internals to the turbos, in order to allow their higher-rev ranges, which I think includes con rods and possibly the cranks too.

gt3 has certain different components to allow the higher rpm - for example solid lifters etc. They are very similar in design if not components. We have produced a turbo engine that revs to 8500rpm which effectively has a gt3 top end if that makes sense.

[Digga]

Nineexcellence said:

We have produced a turbo engine that revs to 8500rpm which effectively has a gt3 top end if that makes sense.

Bet that sounds and goes well!

[Nineexcellence]

Digga said:

Nineexcellence said:

We have produced a turbo engine that revs to 8500rpm which effectively has a gt3 top end if that makes sense.

Bet that sounds and goes well!

920hp - like a rocket!

[StuB]

Bet this car is sold before the OP makes his decision!

[981]

Hello I'd be very grateful if anyone could advise on the below data:

Number of programming operations
1
Number of ignitions, range 1
94 133.5 h
Number of ignitions, range 2
630 133.5 h
Order type
996811
Operating hours counter
148.6
Cruise control
without cruise control
Exclusive numbers
Total distance
7860 km
Transmission type
G9696
Interior equipment
840

Thank you.

[Fl0pp3r]

OP - have you seen this X50?

http://www.rpmtechnik.co.uk/sales/vehicle/996-turb...

RPM have a good rep afaik too...

[IceBoy]

OP, those RR2 seems very low....get it purchased before somebody jumps on that. Seems good value.
IceBoy

[Digga]

981 said:

Hello I'd be very grateful if anyone could advise on the below data:

Number of programming operations
1
Number of ignitions, range 1
94 133.5 h
Number of ignitions, range 2
630 133.5 h

Struggling to think how you can get more range 2 and 1, other than over-rev on a downshift. That is purely a guess however.

Fl0pp3r said:

OP - have you seen this X50?

http://www.rpmtechnik.co.uk/sales/vehicle/996-turb...

RPM have a good rep afaik too...

Wow! That's as near to perfection as I've seen. Lovely.

[Spaceman2001]

StuB said:

Bet this car is sold before the OP makes his decision!

This

[PorscheTB0]

Many thanks to everyone for their input.

Just to answer the question above I've driven the car a couple of times as has a good friend of mine (a Porsche 997 Turbo owner). It drives well with no hesitation, etc.

As its a manual X50 there's a fair degree of interest so a deposit has been put on the car and its being inspected at the beginning of next week.

p.s. does anyone know how many X50's were produced ?

Edited by PorscheTB0 on Thursday 7th January 09:52

[Darranu]

Nice one OP, I've had mine for 6 years now and it still put's a huge smile on my face every time I jump in
Enjoy!

[Darranu]

With regard to number of X50's produced, I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was roughly 130 UK cars.
Could be totally wrong mind but that number rings a bell for some reason

[PorscheTB0]

Darranu said:

With regard to number of X50's produced, I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was roughly 130 UK cars.
Could be totally wrong mind but that number rings a bell for some reason

That's lower than I was expecting and if that's about right explains why they're so hard to find. If the convertibles are knocked out that'll lower the number of X50 manual coupe's even further.

[Nineexcellence]

Remember there are only two 996 Turbo models - the 996 Turbo and the 996 Turbo S - there is no model X50 - it was an option for the 996 Turbo just like heated seats!

[Nineexcellence]

981 said:

Hello I'd be very grateful if anyone could advise on the below data:

Number of programming operations
1
Number of ignitions, range 1
94 133.5 h
Number of ignitions, range 2
630 133.5 h
Order type
996811
Operating hours counter
148.6
Cruise control
without cruise control
Exclusive numbers
Total distance
7860 km
Transmission type
G9696
Interior equipment
840

Thank you.

I would suggest you check the RR1 and RR2 values again - those figures are not possible.

[PorscheTB0]

Nineexcellence said:

Remember there are only two 996 Turbo models - the 996 Turbo and the 996 Turbo S - there is no model X50 - it was an option for the 996 Turbo just like heated seats!

Yes, I was meaning how many 996 Turbo's were produced with the X50 option. Its standard fitment on the 996 Turbo S isn't it?