991 GT3 Gen 2

[v8ksn]

If Porsche release a new manual 911 GT3 with a focus on driver involvement rather than outright lap times then I think they will have redeemed themselves in the eyes of a few enthusiasts including me.

[Dr S]

robgt3 said:

tree7777 said:

Rob I did hear the same thing from a top car journalist manual without the massive wing pdk with on the next GT3

Funny that!

There will be an R successor internally labeled "T" with manual and without wing

[Harris_I]

v8ksn said:

If Porsche release a new manual 911 GT3 with a focus on driver involvement rather than outright lap times then I think they will have redeemed themselves in the eyes of a few enthusiasts including me.

Depends if they restrict access to VIP customers as seems to be the norm nowadays.

Jimmyslr's earlier excellent post sums it up for me. Porsche have lost what once used to be a hard core of loyal enthusiasts. I have absolutely no wish to brown-nose dealers or buy a succession of meh SUVs to get on a list like some desperado waiting outside a provincial nightclub.

McLaren have the race heritage and tech, Aston have hairy chested old school analogue. There are plenty of options at this price point.

[Big Raff]

AndrewD said:

Manual for me please, whether that comes with a wing or not.

PDK and big wing for me please

In dark green

[tuffer]

Harris_I said:

Depends if they restrict access to VIP customers as seems to be the norm nowadays.

Jimmyslr's earlier excellent post sums it up for me. Porsche have lost what once used to be a hard core of loyal enthusiasts. I have absolutely no wish to brown-nose dealers or buy a succession of meh SUVs to get on a list like some desperado waiting outside a provincial nightclub.

McLaren have the race heritage and tech, Aston have hairy chested old school analogue. There are plenty of options at this price point.

^^^^^^THIS.

[Koln-RS]

There are plenty of options, but Ferrari, Aston, Mclaren, etc, will still prioritise their loyal, longer standing customers. It's standard business practice.

[Harris_I]

Koln-RS said:

There are plenty of options, but Ferrari, Aston, Mclaren, etc, will still prioritise their loyal, longer standing customers. It's standard business practice.

I can walk into an Aston or McLaren showroom and simply spec up a V12VM or 570S. The shocking thing is they will take my money and a few months later deliver a shiny new car.

[Koln-RS]

But you can do exactly the same with Porsche's mainstream models.

I was referring to the limited issue models from any manufacturer.

[footsoldier]

v8ksn said:

If Porsche release a new manual 911 GT3 with a focus on driver involvement rather than outright lap times then I think they will have redeemed themselves in the eyes of a few enthusiasts including me.

I think something like this will be coming
Will you care if it's not labelled a GT3, out of interest..?

[Harris_I]

Koln-RS said:

But you can do exactly the same with Porsche's mainstream models.

I was referring to the limited issue models from any manufacturer.

Not sure I understand the relevance? I have no interest in non-GTs.

[isaldiri]

Harris_I said:

Koln-RS said:

But you can do exactly the same with Porsche's mainstream models.

I was referring to the limited issue models from any manufacturer.

Not sure I understand the relevance? I have no interest in non-GTs.

The GT cars are probably more equivalent to the LTs for Mclaren. You can order a 570s easily enough but you can do the same for a 911 C2S or even a turbo s for example. It's not exactly comparing like for like on the availability of a GT Porsche to a standard production model from another manufacturer.

It seems pretty like the 570 LT equivalent (590 or whatever) will be not so simple to get an order in as simply walking in to spec and pay for it.

[hondansx]

They made 500 of the 675LTs, and then peed off owners by building convertibles.

A 570S is a regular production car, as is a standard 911; you made a fair comparison

[hondansx]

Also, a fair comparison, a 570S is £143k standard. Given sports seats are £5k, sports exhaust is £3k and exterior carbon £13k(!), you are looking at a £160k with an OK spec. You can already buy cars for less than their list with a couple of thousands miles on the clock.

In comparison, buying a new GT3 when released will result in a second hand premium. A couple of years on, the 991 GT3 is only just available for less than list.

A McLaren 570S is therefore going to cost you more to buy initially, and then will cost you £10,000s if you keep it more than a year.

So it returns to my point: are you upset with Porsche for not selling you a car? Or are you just miffed that someone else gets free motoring and you can't? There isn't anyone stopping you getting a 570S; if people are that upset, go get one!

[Harris_I]

The so-called limited edition Porsches are interesting enough for me to want one. As are the non limited models from Aston and McLaren. An LT is not at a price point that interests me - nor do I want or need the extra performance. Comparing a limited model from one manufacturer with the limited model from another only makes sense if they both cost the same and compete in the same segment.

For me the comparison is GT3 vs 570S vs V12VM, and probably a few others. Only one of which requires me to buy all manner of crud from a manufacturer that disappeared up its own arse long ago. It's completely irrelevant to me that Porsche consider the GT range worthy of being limited.

[tuffer]

hondansx said:

Also, a fair comparison, a 570S is £143k standard. Given sports seats are £5k, sports exhaust is £3k and exterior carbon £13k(!), you are looking at a £160k with an OK spec. You can already buy cars for less than their list with a couple of thousands miles on the clock.

In comparison, buying a new GT3 when released will result in a second hand premium. A couple of years on, the 991 GT3 is only just available for less than list.

A McLaren 570S is therefore going to cost you more to buy initially, and then will cost you £10,000s if you keep it more than a year.

So it returns to my point: are you upset with Porsche for not selling you a car? Or are you just miffed that someone else gets free motoring and you can't? There isn't anyone stopping you getting a 570S; if people are that upset, go get one!

You are forgetting to take into account the tens of K's of £ you will lose on the Panamera, Cayennes and Turbo S's that you have to buy in order to get on the GT list. Personally I would not care less if a GT3 lost 50% of its value as soon as I drove it out of the showroom, I want one to drive not to stick in the garage and brag about. The fact that I cannot buy one just makes me look at other marques and if they have something interesting that I can buy without a ridiculous wait then I will do that, I fully expect to lose my shirt......It's a car.

[Harris_I]

hondansx said:

There isn't anyone stopping you getting a 570S; if people are that upset, go get one!

I'm upset that Porsche don't believe that all customers deserve an immersive interactive experience. They used to. Porsche used to be a car company for people like us. I have a lifelong obsession with Porsche - I still have my matchbox cars dating from the early 70s. I own what I think is one of their greatest cars and I didn't have to bow and scrape to buy it. I don't like the so called mainstream stuff they make today so they've lost me as a customer.

As it happens, I'm visiting the Aston dealer tomorrow and I never would have thought of myself as an Aston owner...

[isaldiri]

Harris_I said:

The so-called limited edition Porsches are interesting enough for me to want one. As are the non limited models from Aston and McLaren. An LT is not at a price point that interests me - nor do I want or need the extra performance. Comparing a limited model from one manufacturer with the limited model from another only makes sense if they both cost the same and compete in the same segment.

For me the comparison is GT3 vs 570S vs V12VM, and probably a few others. Only one of which requires me to buy all manner of crud from a manufacturer that disappeared up its own arse long ago. It's completely irrelevant to me that Porsche consider the GT range worthy of being limited.

Well it is relevant given you just want to walk into a dealership and order a car is it not?

Personally I think comparing limited models between manufacturers makes more sense given demand in both cases likely outstrips supply whatever that price might be. That price might not be right for you but the principle of how a manufacturer doles out 'rare' cars is going to be the same.

[footsoldier]

I don't think there will be any limit on GT3.2 production, and anyone who wants one will be able to get one.
They might not get one of the first ones, but tats just down to speed of production, not limited numbers.

[isaldiri]

Harris_I said:

I'm upset that Porsche don't believe that all customers deserve an immersive interactive experience. They used to. Porsche used to be a car company for people like us. I have a lifelong obsession with Porsche - I still have my matchbox cars dating from the early 70s. I own what I think is one of their greatest cars and I didn't have to bow and scrape to buy it. I don't like the so called mainstream stuff they make today so they've lost me as a customer.

As it happens, I'm visiting the Aston dealer tomorrow and I never would have thought of myself as an Aston owner...

Without wanting to be an idiot, Porsche weren't that company in the past due to altruism on their part but rather because they believed it was the best way for them to make a profit. These days Porsche are mainly a SUV maker that has a sideline in making some admittedly excellent sports cars. Exacerbating the overs/demand situation on highly in demand cars might very well be something they (probably correctly) think makes their cars more even in demand than not.

[tuffer]

footsoldier said:

I don't think there will be any limit on GT3.2 production, and anyone who wants one will be able to get one.
They might not get one of the first ones, but tats just down to speed of production, not limited numbers.

I do hope that is the case, I will happily wait in the queue and get one in PTS.