Porsche GT/R/RS market - where is it headed?

[v8ksn]

Robbo66 said:

More are driven as intended than many realise. This notion that all are locked away is nonsense, all those that I know use their cars, me included.

I know its not THE most special GT car but its bloody special to me

[RSVP911]

v8ksn said:

I know its not THE most special GT car but its bloody special to me

I love your car - stunning - bet you're glad you didn't let it go in the end

[HokumPokum]

IMI A said:

woollyjoe said:

I'm not sure prices will ever come down for older / GT 911's simply because traders won't let it. It's like art and would take a dramatic market event to change this IMO.

I'm not so sure about this. 90% of the heavier stock like 991 GT3 RS and 997 GT3 RS seem to be on SOR. There's no exposure whatsoever to many of the dealers trying to retail these cars. The 7.2 RS I saw was on SOR. To drop £35,000 the minute I put in an offer shows current pricing is miles over the top. This was the lowest mileage car on the market albeit it had been driven to within an inch of its life. I think they'll dip in the short term with 7.2 RS and 7.1 RS eventually overtaking the 991 GT3 RS medium to long term.

Also the comfort GT3 I saw vendor dropped price from £135k to £110k which would have bought the car. With hindsight I should have bought it.

I put my aqua blue 7.2RS with 13k miles at a well known specialist for ages at 175k last year and almost closed when brexit worries hit. Strangely, brexit has not been the catastrophe it was thought to be (at least not yet) and dealers are again trying to edge the best examples back to 200k. I'm not complaining but I can definitely see how the 991RS and the 7.2RS could converge in pricing.

[alphonso]

What's the 991RS going for these days? Last major thread on this was the UV one that we all argued over for a few weeks that sold for £190ish but buyer claimed it was more..

[TheAnimal]

alphonso said:

What's the 991RS going for these days? Last major thread on this was the UV one that we all argued over for a few weeks that sold for £190ish but buyer claimed it was more..

Yes it was around £190k...

[SRT Hellcat]

Mario149 said:

Basically, I'm holding out for the next recession due petty much any time in the next 5 years when everything will come down to sensible prices again.

I admire your resolve but no one knows what is around the corner.
A lot can happen in five years. Good or bad or dead which I suppose you could describe as pretty bad.
Live life and enjoy whilst you can. So what if you get it £10K wrong. At the values we are talking it is relatively meaningless.

[Digga]

Robbo66 said:

I nearly bought a grey with red, advertised incorrectly by an OPC. 5000 miles. Few good people pointed out that the car had serious warranty issues involving the CCCB, amongst other things. Dodged a bullet there. It's a minefield, where the unscrupulous will prey on the fickle and ill informed.

A good point and, that being said, does anyone know much about this one?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

[Porsche911R]

Digga said:

A good point and, that being said, does anyone know much about this one?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

been on sale about 4 months along with a white one which once dropped to sub £100k was bought by some one on here.
was a nicer lower miles car also.

Looks a nice car, the clutch is very heavy (I have sat in this one) they must want to do a deal on it by now even though it's dropped in price, I my self could not pay that price for those miles on that car without buckets, but not many to choose from I guess, seats well should be buckets in GT cars and hence it's stuck for sale imo, but about £8k can buy folding buckets for it, worth a £95k bid imo, you would be the 5th owner.

Selling comfort seated GT cars has always been very very hard, but at the right price a retro fit not only adds value, also the cars easy to sell when you realise a GT3 is a bit hyped as can be seen by the new white 6 owner car listed at the OPC network with only 9k miles ! the last 6 owners must have really hated it to do only 9k between them !

I know that upsets many people on here, but so many GT3 have done low miles with many owners ! there IS a reason.

GT4 seems such a good car for £85k and spend £6k on it for 425BHp and a few geo tweaks use the change you save not buying a GT3 for a R1 :-).

Or put your name down on the 991.2 GT3 at the same price !

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 17th February 10:32

[Mario149]

SRT Hellcat said:

Mario149 said:

Basically, I'm holding out for the next recession due petty much any time in the next 5 years when everything will come down to sensible prices again.

I admire your resolve but no one knows what is around the corner.
A lot can happen in five years. Good or bad or dead which I suppose you could describe as pretty bad.
Live life and enjoy whilst you can. So what if you get it £10K wrong. At the values we are talking it is relatively meaningless.

Totally get what you mean, luckily I managed to get through an F355 Spider, 550 Maranello and 997.1 GT3 while they were still sensible-ish money, so when I say I'm waiting, it's not for a specific car that I may miss out on. It's not a case of £10k or so either I don't think unfortunately A few years ago F355s could be had in the £30Ks (I paid £35K from a know Ferrari specialist), 550s could be had in the £40Ks (I paid £53.5K from a dealer as I was a little late to the party and it was low mileage) and 997.1 GT3s could be had in the £50Ks (I paid £67K from 911V, again I was a bit late to the party). Equivalent cars now are asking £70Ks, £90Ks and £85Ks repsectively - although that's asking mind, not what may actually be paid!

Best value car at the moment seems like an early Gallardo. I've had half an eye on the for the last few years and they seem stable at £70-£80K which is only about £10K more than a few years ago. Madness when a Lambo is looking like the value for money option!

[Never you mind]

Mario149 said:

Best value car at the moment seems like an early Gallardo. I've had half an eye on the for the last few years and they seem stable at £70-£80K which is only about £10K more than a few years ago. Madness when a Lambo is looking like the value for money option!

Yeah that is madness.

You can get a MK1 Superlegera cheaper than a 7.1RS.

I chucked my 911 turbo in for a Lambo LP560-2. For some reason it seemed better value for money than 7.1RS.

[Digga]

Porsche911R said:

Selling comfort seated GT cars has always been very very hard, but at the right price a retro fit not only adds value, also the cars easy to sell when you realise a GT3 is a bit hyped as can be seen by the new white 6 owner car listed at the OPC network with only 9k miles ! the last 6 owners must have really hated it to do only 9k between them !

I know that upsets many people on here, but so many GT3 have done low miles with many owners ! there IS a reason.

Thanks for advice and for the above thoughts.

I currently have a 996 turbo I'm very happy with. That would have to go, either as p/ex or, more likely privately, prior to any purchase.

The 'thing' bugging me about the 3.8 997.2 GT3 is that it is, IMHO, apart from the (definitely unaffordable to me) 4.0, the pinnacle. For me and for various reasons, Mezger, chassis feel etc. the 991 GT cars simply not as desirable, even if they're 'more'. I think that this may be the case in general and that these cars move out of my reach.

My morbid fear is of selling a car I own outright, know (I've spent a ton on it) and love, and financing as car that does not, quite, hit the spot.

[Porsche911R]

Digga said:

Thanks for advice and for the above thoughts.

I currently have a 996 turbo I'm very happy with. That would have to go, either as p/ex or, more likely privately, prior to any purchase.

The 'thing' bugging me about the 3.8 997.2 GT3 is that it is, IMHO, apart from the (definitely unaffordable to me) 4.0, the pinnacle. For me and for various reasons, Mezger, chassis feel etc. the 991 GT cars simply not as desirable, even if they're 'more'. I think that this may be the case in general and that these cars move out of my reach.

My morbid fear is of selling a car I own outright, know (I've spent a ton on it) and love, and financing as car that does not, quite, hit the spot.

I love the idea of a GT3 (well love I bought one after many years of lust, and then sold it !), I collect every RS model (sad I know) and would love a 997.2 RS myself, and keep thinking about buying a 997.2 GT3, but they are very frustrating cars imo the dream is better than the owner ship, although on the right day/road nothing can beat a GT3, but for me that would be far to little use and the rest of the time the car would be annoying, hence I run a GT4 which is easier to live with for sure, has a nicer gear change, lighter clutch and more usable rev range vs power also the GT4 rides like a dream for a GT car.

GT3 again look poor value atm, the markets stuck on them and costs to look after are not cheap.

Iconic car though and it's great Porsche make the GT3, but you have to have a really nice set of cars 1st to add a GT3 to the fleet imo it's def a 2nd or 3rd car and if you have a nice car to use adding a GT3 is ideal.

But putting £100k into a car which might get little use if you drive a £30k car 95% of the time might make you think "why did I buy it"

This is only my view though, and every one is different.

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 17th February 11:38

[Digga]

My 996 turbo is a (relatively) cheap, usable car. So I do use it, petty much year round. I do look after it, but I don't sweat handing over the keys to hotel valet parking staff, or worry about stone chips on autobahns and tracks. However, the rarity and focus of a GT3 still tempts.

The "do I ,don't I" butterfly flutters in the stomach remind me of nothing more than going for a big, do-or-die mountain bike jump - at a certain point, once you're committed, you have to keep moving forward. Right now, I think I'm still sizing up the gap and thinking it could ruin me!

[Steve Rance]

I think that is the essence of the car and why it polarises so many drivers. The original versions of the GT3 - 996/7 were very race orientated car as opposed to race inspired. By thier nature, highly strung, relatively twitchy and unforgiving. To some drivers very rewarding and others just uncomfortable, frustrating and intimidating. I fit into the former catagory and recognise that when combining the unique nature of the driving experience and the hardware that these cars share, make them still a relative bargain ( compared to a decent cooking 964C2for example ). I can see how other drivers wouldnt see it that way

[LaSource]

I agree that a GT3 used as a daily driver, shopping car, school drop off car, hotel valet parking car, odeon cinema car, waitrose car, london zone 1-2 with 20 mph average speed, etc would become frustrating or irritating or soon the wrong car. So one does need something else for this that works and is relatively fun - a 996 turbo, an E39 M5, or an E46 M3, etc, etc.

...however, as a second car for weekend/fun/road trip/track...they are awesome

[SPiston]

Steve Rance said:

I think that is the essence of the car and why it polarises so many drivers. The original versions of the GT3 - 996/7 were very race orientated car as opposed to race inspired. By thier nature, highly strung, relatively twitchy and unforgiving. To some drivers very rewarding and others just uncomfortable, frustrating and intimidating. I fit into the former catagory and recognise that when combining the unique nature of the driving experience and the hardware that these cars share, make them still a relative bargain ( compared to a decent cooking 964C2for example ). I can see how other drivers wouldnt see it that way

That's a good post. Porsche have served up so many & varied dishes over the years. Inevitable there is some hot air in the system.

[Steve Rance]

I think that's what Porsche are so good at. They introduced the original GT3's as the ultimate track focussed GT cars and did it brilliantly, the latter 991GT3 was aimed more at an accessable all round super car, which again they managed brilliantly

[Mario149]

Steve Rance said:

I think that's what Porsche are so good at. They introduced the original GT3's as the ultimate track focussed GT cars and did it brilliantly, the latter 991GT3 was aimed more at an accessable all round super car, which again they managed brilliantly

If the 991 GT3 and onwards are being designed as supercars, do we think there might be space in the model lineup for a track day 911 a la old GT3? Say a GT3/911R lite priced at Carrera S level? Would be lovely to have a car along the lines of....

- powerkitted 991.1 3.4 or 3.8 unit, or possibly even a lower power version of the GT3 engine
- 50kg
- Sports PASM (-20mm) with more road bias than a GT3
- folding buckets
- some GT3 suspension bits
- 911R gearbox
- a bit of unique external/internal style
- LSD

Wouldn't trouble the halo models performance-wise (or the turbo Carrera S for that matter) and would essentially be a parts bin job

[Twinfan]

Mario149 said:

If the 991 GT3 and onwards are being designed as supercars, do we think there might be space in the model lineup for a track day 911 a la old GT3? Say a GT3/911R lite priced at Carrera S level? Would be lovely to have a car along the lines of....

- powerkitted 991.1 3.4 or 3.8 unit, or possibly even a lower power version of the GT3 engine
- 50kg
- Sports PASM (-20mm) with more road bias than a GT3
- folding buckets
- some GT3 suspension bits
- 911R gearbox
- a bit of unique external/internal style
- LSD

Wouldn't trouble the halo models performance-wise (or the turbo Carrera S for that matter) and would essentially be a parts bin job

That sounds like the rumoured 911T i.e. a budget 911R.

[Mario149]

Twinfan said:

That sounds like the rumoured 911T i.e. a budget 911R.

Linkies to any rumours? Not heard anything about it before...