Differences between the 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 and 997.2 GT3 + GT4
Discussion
GT4P said:
If you are based in the UK a gt4 is some £20k+ cheaper than a 7.2 gt3! The gt4 is more closer in price to a low miles 7.1 gt3
I don't live in the UK. In Germany you can buy a GT4 for the same money as a 997.2 GT3 (don't live in Germany also).Edited by GT4P on Sunday 5th March 02:21
I've had the GT3s, the GT4, plenty of 'old skool' 911s - and another decision to be made next week 
Technical differences can cloud the issue. Very often, these decisions are actually based on practical and personal preferences. It is impossible to say which is the better car for a given individual's intended use, but I do think, for the money, the GT4 is a real gem - whether road only or 'arrive & drive' track use.
These days, my preference is for a tactile and rewarding road car - and I actually run mine on slightly narrower road tyres. But, both my son and daughter, race at a high level, and they take it on track (on Cups - Dunlops lasted a day!) and, despite different driving styles, they both love the GT4 and rate it very highly.
Of course, the new 991.2 GT3 will doubtless take things to another level - at a price and subject to availability - but the GT4 won't disappoint. And, if you are planning to take the track use increasingly seriously, then there will be aftermarket tuning upgrades that will further extend its capabilities.
Technical differences can cloud the issue. Very often, these decisions are actually based on practical and personal preferences. It is impossible to say which is the better car for a given individual's intended use, but I do think, for the money, the GT4 is a real gem - whether road only or 'arrive & drive' track use.
These days, my preference is for a tactile and rewarding road car - and I actually run mine on slightly narrower road tyres. But, both my son and daughter, race at a high level, and they take it on track (on Cups - Dunlops lasted a day!) and, despite different driving styles, they both love the GT4 and rate it very highly.
Of course, the new 991.2 GT3 will doubtless take things to another level - at a price and subject to availability - but the GT4 won't disappoint. And, if you are planning to take the track use increasingly seriously, then there will be aftermarket tuning upgrades that will further extend its capabilities.
I have an M3 CSL, gt4 and 997.2 gt3RS
I currently have a 2008 C63 PP for daily runabout but will swap for a 2017 m3 CP. That will be the car I use the most and especially on weekends while the missus does the daily school run/gym session in it.
My CSL is fully caged and running on intrax suspension with a bespoke fuel surge pot with no ac, radio. I get my track needs with that car.
The Gt4 and RS could be tracked up to twice a year at most and mostly will be for special road trips and the odd run every month. Both are stock, although the RS has a fast road alignment done by RPM.
\
The RS is an event every time you get in the car, the merger engine with it's bag of nails idle and the stiff gear change, heavy clutch make it feels impregnable and you get loads of road feel throughout the thin rim and all the traction you ever need (on a dry warm surface). The GT4 is just so capable and composed that it feels (and is ) a whole generation or more ahead. But both cars will need some level of mods to be a car you can consistently track for a dozen times a year.
In the GT4 , you'll probably need the RSS/tarett package of links and monoballs to get proper camber and an upgrade of steel brakes (unless you have PCCB and intend to go the ST route). But I think that's it. The car running on the stock drivetrain is pretty bullet proof if you don't have 3rd gear issues which is a warranty claim.
on the 997.2 Gt3, it's an old car, so you'll need to pin/weld the coolant lines, change the clutch/flywheel for 4.0 items (might as well), rebuilt the diff to cup internals plus the usual brake upgrade.
on the suspension, you'll need to upgrade and change out any worn bushings and arms and maybe consider a damper rebuild or upgrade. (DSC helps)
Plus if stuff breaks on the GT3, it'll be more expensive to fix. I don't know if the above fixes affect warranty in Germany but they do here in UK. so whilst the Gt3 engine is re-buildable and pretty solid, the 9A1 in the Gt4 is much cheaper to replace.
For a track car, you really want one that has relatively affordable upgrade and oem parts as well as knowledgeable garages that can work on them. For that reason, the economical answer must be the Gt4 where you can go almost as fast for a lot less. There is no real answer to this question as it depends on how deep your wallet is and how much you want the 911 gt3. It is more special than a Gt4 no doubt and has charms the GT4 can't even contemplate but the new car is easier to get to grips with and has age and cost on its side.
I'll prolly look to sell one of the two in my stable in the spring and currently think the Gt4 will be the one to go.
I currently have a 2008 C63 PP for daily runabout but will swap for a 2017 m3 CP. That will be the car I use the most and especially on weekends while the missus does the daily school run/gym session in it.
My CSL is fully caged and running on intrax suspension with a bespoke fuel surge pot with no ac, radio. I get my track needs with that car.
The Gt4 and RS could be tracked up to twice a year at most and mostly will be for special road trips and the odd run every month. Both are stock, although the RS has a fast road alignment done by RPM.
\
The RS is an event every time you get in the car, the merger engine with it's bag of nails idle and the stiff gear change, heavy clutch make it feels impregnable and you get loads of road feel throughout the thin rim and all the traction you ever need (on a dry warm surface). The GT4 is just so capable and composed that it feels (and is ) a whole generation or more ahead. But both cars will need some level of mods to be a car you can consistently track for a dozen times a year.
In the GT4 , you'll probably need the RSS/tarett package of links and monoballs to get proper camber and an upgrade of steel brakes (unless you have PCCB and intend to go the ST route). But I think that's it. The car running on the stock drivetrain is pretty bullet proof if you don't have 3rd gear issues which is a warranty claim.
on the 997.2 Gt3, it's an old car, so you'll need to pin/weld the coolant lines, change the clutch/flywheel for 4.0 items (might as well), rebuilt the diff to cup internals plus the usual brake upgrade.
on the suspension, you'll need to upgrade and change out any worn bushings and arms and maybe consider a damper rebuild or upgrade. (DSC helps)
Plus if stuff breaks on the GT3, it'll be more expensive to fix. I don't know if the above fixes affect warranty in Germany but they do here in UK. so whilst the Gt3 engine is re-buildable and pretty solid, the 9A1 in the Gt4 is much cheaper to replace.
For a track car, you really want one that has relatively affordable upgrade and oem parts as well as knowledgeable garages that can work on them. For that reason, the economical answer must be the Gt4 where you can go almost as fast for a lot less. There is no real answer to this question as it depends on how deep your wallet is and how much you want the 911 gt3. It is more special than a Gt4 no doubt and has charms the GT4 can't even contemplate but the new car is easier to get to grips with and has age and cost on its side.
I'll prolly look to sell one of the two in my stable in the spring and currently think the Gt4 will be the one to go.
HokumPokum said:
I have an M3 CSL, gt4 and 997.2 gt3RS
I currently have a 2008 C63 PP for daily runabout but will swap for a 2017 m3 CP. That will be the car I use the most and especially on weekends while the missus does the daily school run/gym session in it.
My CSL is fully caged and running on intrax suspension with a bespoke fuel surge pot with no ac, radio. I get my track needs with that car.
The Gt4 and RS could be tracked up to twice a year at most and mostly will be for special road trips and the odd run every month. Both are stock, although the RS has a fast road alignment done by RPM.
\
The RS is an event every time you get in the car, the merger engine with it's bag of nails idle and the stiff gear change, heavy clutch make it feels impregnable and you get loads of road feel throughout the thin rim and all the traction you ever need (on a dry warm surface). The GT4 is just so capable and composed that it feels (and is ) a whole generation or more ahead. But both cars will need some level of mods to be a car you can consistently track for a dozen times a year.
In the GT4 , you'll probably need the RSS/tarett package of links and monoballs to get proper camber and an upgrade of steel brakes (unless you have PCCB and intend to go the ST route). But I think that's it. The car running on the stock drivetrain is pretty bullet proof if you don't have 3rd gear issues which is a warranty claim.
on the 997.2 Gt3, it's an old car, so you'll need to pin/weld the coolant lines, change the clutch/flywheel for 4.0 items (might as well), rebuilt the diff to cup internals plus the usual brake upgrade.
on the suspension, you'll need to upgrade and change out any worn bushings and arms and maybe consider a damper rebuild or upgrade. (DSC helps)
Plus if stuff breaks on the GT3, it'll be more expensive to fix. I don't know if the above fixes affect warranty in Germany but they do here in UK. so whilst the Gt3 engine is re-buildable and pretty solid, the 9A1 in the Gt4 is much cheaper to replace.
For a track car, you really want one that has relatively affordable upgrade and oem parts as well as knowledgeable garages that can work on them. For that reason, the economical answer must be the Gt4 where you can go almost as fast for a lot less. There is no real answer to this question as it depends on how deep your wallet is and how much you want the 911 gt3. It is more special than a Gt4 no doubt and has charms the GT4 can't even contemplate but the new car is easier to get to grips with and has age and cost on its side.
I'll prolly look to sell one of the two in my stable in the spring and currently think the Gt4 will be the one to go.
Nice conclusion and great insight....did not know the GT4 needed those extra things to make it really stand out on track. A friend of mine has a completely standard GT4 and uses it only on track (+ 10 times a year, mostly Nurburgring)...he has no complaints about the car and is a rather fast driver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-LRg6Mb7LgI currently have a 2008 C63 PP for daily runabout but will swap for a 2017 m3 CP. That will be the car I use the most and especially on weekends while the missus does the daily school run/gym session in it.
My CSL is fully caged and running on intrax suspension with a bespoke fuel surge pot with no ac, radio. I get my track needs with that car.
The Gt4 and RS could be tracked up to twice a year at most and mostly will be for special road trips and the odd run every month. Both are stock, although the RS has a fast road alignment done by RPM.
\
The RS is an event every time you get in the car, the merger engine with it's bag of nails idle and the stiff gear change, heavy clutch make it feels impregnable and you get loads of road feel throughout the thin rim and all the traction you ever need (on a dry warm surface). The GT4 is just so capable and composed that it feels (and is ) a whole generation or more ahead. But both cars will need some level of mods to be a car you can consistently track for a dozen times a year.
In the GT4 , you'll probably need the RSS/tarett package of links and monoballs to get proper camber and an upgrade of steel brakes (unless you have PCCB and intend to go the ST route). But I think that's it. The car running on the stock drivetrain is pretty bullet proof if you don't have 3rd gear issues which is a warranty claim.
on the 997.2 Gt3, it's an old car, so you'll need to pin/weld the coolant lines, change the clutch/flywheel for 4.0 items (might as well), rebuilt the diff to cup internals plus the usual brake upgrade.
on the suspension, you'll need to upgrade and change out any worn bushings and arms and maybe consider a damper rebuild or upgrade. (DSC helps)
Plus if stuff breaks on the GT3, it'll be more expensive to fix. I don't know if the above fixes affect warranty in Germany but they do here in UK. so whilst the Gt3 engine is re-buildable and pretty solid, the 9A1 in the Gt4 is much cheaper to replace.
For a track car, you really want one that has relatively affordable upgrade and oem parts as well as knowledgeable garages that can work on them. For that reason, the economical answer must be the Gt4 where you can go almost as fast for a lot less. There is no real answer to this question as it depends on how deep your wallet is and how much you want the 911 gt3. It is more special than a Gt4 no doubt and has charms the GT4 can't even contemplate but the new car is easier to get to grips with and has age and cost on its side.
I'll prolly look to sell one of the two in my stable in the spring and currently think the Gt4 will be the one to go.
if you can get it to work on the standard setup without excessive front tyre wear, even better. But to get sufficient rear camber, most had to go aftermarket but the cost isn't much.
Re brakes..... for track work, it is better to use upgraded aftermarket discs and pads. Although this may be circuit dependent.
out of the box, the gt4 is indeed value for money, even after you add clubsport.
Re brakes..... for track work, it is better to use upgraded aftermarket discs and pads. Although this may be circuit dependent.
out of the box, the gt4 is indeed value for money, even after you add clubsport.
Well I've gone in a rather different direction ....
For the very best of P Mezger --- 996GT3 MkI CS RHD ... classic and the start of the Aircooled RS / Mezger journey.
For the lightweight classic hit --- '73 2.4S LHD ... long bonnet at a half sensible price !
For the drive to / from and trackdays I managed to get one of the first GT4's and for this season it will have Manthey suspension with KW Clubsport 3 way dampers and the PCCB's shelved in favour of ST's ... total cost a tad less than £100k and I recon it will give most RS's a fairly difficult time ...
And for the drive to work / airports and general bad weather fun, I've defected to Audi and an RS3 Sportback ...
Unfortunately it doesn't really answer your question ... but maybe it helps ?
When the Gen 1 997GT3 and RS were tested for the new price difference many plumped for the CS version of the GT3 ... with a much smaller difference in price than now exists. Gen2 ... ??? You could get a very well tricked GT4 for the price of either of those --- in fact you could probably get the GT4 and the RS3 or whatever floats your boat equivalent, for the price ....
For the very best of P Mezger --- 996GT3 MkI CS RHD ... classic and the start of the Aircooled RS / Mezger journey.
For the lightweight classic hit --- '73 2.4S LHD ... long bonnet at a half sensible price !
For the drive to / from and trackdays I managed to get one of the first GT4's and for this season it will have Manthey suspension with KW Clubsport 3 way dampers and the PCCB's shelved in favour of ST's ... total cost a tad less than £100k and I recon it will give most RS's a fairly difficult time ...
And for the drive to work / airports and general bad weather fun, I've defected to Audi and an RS3 Sportback ...
Unfortunately it doesn't really answer your question ... but maybe it helps ?
When the Gen 1 997GT3 and RS were tested for the new price difference many plumped for the CS version of the GT3 ... with a much smaller difference in price than now exists. Gen2 ... ??? You could get a very well tricked GT4 for the price of either of those --- in fact you could probably get the GT4 and the RS3 or whatever floats your boat equivalent, for the price ....
Edited by ChrisW. on Sunday 5th March 21:47
ChrisW. said:
Well I've gone in a rather different direction ....
For the very best of P Mezger --- 996GT3 MkI CS RHD ... classic and the start of the Aircooled RS / Mezger journey.
For the lightweight classic hit --- '73 2.4S LHD ... long bonnet at a half sensible price !
For the drive to / from and trackdays I managed to get one of the first GT4's and for this season it will have Manthey suspension with KW Clubsport 3 way dampers and the PCCB's shelved in favour of ST's ... total cost a tad less than £100k and I recon it will give most RS's a fairly difficult time ...
And for the drive to work / airports and general bad weather fun, I've defected to Audi and an RS3 Sportback ...
Sounds like the 4 could be very interesting any plans to derestrict the engine via Ehressman or others. Will you be at Oulton with it on Friday? Would be nice to catch up.For the very best of P Mezger --- 996GT3 MkI CS RHD ... classic and the start of the Aircooled RS / Mezger journey.
For the lightweight classic hit --- '73 2.4S LHD ... long bonnet at a half sensible price !
For the drive to / from and trackdays I managed to get one of the first GT4's and for this season it will have Manthey suspension with KW Clubsport 3 way dampers and the PCCB's shelved in favour of ST's ... total cost a tad less than £100k and I recon it will give most RS's a fairly difficult time ...
And for the drive to work / airports and general bad weather fun, I've defected to Audi and an RS3 Sportback ...
ChrisW. said:
For the drive to / from and trackdays I managed to get one of the first GT4's and for this season it will have Manthey suspension with KW Clubsport 3 way dampers and the PCCB's shelved in favour of ST's ... total cost a tad less than £100k and I recon it will give most RS's a fairly difficult time ...
And for the drive to work / airports and general bad weather fun, I've defected to Audi and an RS3 Sportback ...
Unfortunately it doesn't really answer your question ... but maybe it helps ?
👍🏼And for the drive to work / airports and general bad weather fun, I've defected to Audi and an RS3 Sportback ...
Unfortunately it doesn't really answer your question ... but maybe it helps ?
ST = Stoptech? Steel Rotors?
In answer to the OP's question, the differences between a 2GT3 and 2RS translate into a subtle yet noticeable driving experience but the standard car will bring you a closer driving experience to the RS than the price difference would suggest.
The difference between the GT3 and GT4 is less subtle. Ignoring the obvious weight distribution differences the cars are mainly defined by their engines. The GT4 being a road derived engine and the GT3 essentially a race engine. That gives the GT3 a much more edgy character and when combined with the rear engined layout makes the car even more edgy generally but more rewarding and engaging. In A lot of situations though, that does not make the GT4 the lesser car as it is nicely resolved, more immediately acessable and probably more practicle as a daily proposition. In terms of pace, on the same tyres the GT3 will have a comfortable edge on the GT4 unless the circuit is tight. They are both tuneable but again the GT3 will extend its edge as the levels of tune increase and the GT3 becomes closer to a cup car which is considerably faster than the GT4 Clubsport which is practically the GT4's optimum state of tune.
If it were my decision and I had to use the car as a daily driver I would chose a GT4 as it is a more practical proposition and I can imagine it to be a lovely car to live with day in day out. If it were a second ca for special occasions, I would chose the GT3 as it is more of a thoroughbred, more engaging, intense and ultimately rewarding. Both brilliant cars in different ways. You can't go wrong with either. Let us know what you decide!
The difference between the GT3 and GT4 is less subtle. Ignoring the obvious weight distribution differences the cars are mainly defined by their engines. The GT4 being a road derived engine and the GT3 essentially a race engine. That gives the GT3 a much more edgy character and when combined with the rear engined layout makes the car even more edgy generally but more rewarding and engaging. In A lot of situations though, that does not make the GT4 the lesser car as it is nicely resolved, more immediately acessable and probably more practicle as a daily proposition. In terms of pace, on the same tyres the GT3 will have a comfortable edge on the GT4 unless the circuit is tight. They are both tuneable but again the GT3 will extend its edge as the levels of tune increase and the GT3 becomes closer to a cup car which is considerably faster than the GT4 Clubsport which is practically the GT4's optimum state of tune.
If it were my decision and I had to use the car as a daily driver I would chose a GT4 as it is a more practical proposition and I can imagine it to be a lovely car to live with day in day out. If it were a second ca for special occasions, I would chose the GT3 as it is more of a thoroughbred, more engaging, intense and ultimately rewarding. Both brilliant cars in different ways. You can't go wrong with either. Let us know what you decide!
BubblesNW said:
Sounds like the 4 could be very interesting any plans to derestrict the engine via Ehressman or others. Will you be at Oulton with it on Friday? Would be nice to catch up.
Yes I will ... and I've always time to play 
I'm told by JZM from Manthey that there's very little extra to be gained from engine tuning --- and in fairness, that's where the warranty may come in handy ---
Porsche911R said:
Good shout
thinking of the new Elise Sprint 220 myself as a toy, less weight and far far cheaper to track, also the V6 is a bit heavy(read expensive on parts) and to noisy for UK tracks.
think they have nit the nail on the head with the new Sprint
Nice little car that sprint 220.... Wondering what the price difference between the two car is. I'm a sucker for how the Egixe 380 looks and I think it's going to be awesome on track... I also like the fact that the engine is a mighty V6 in the Exige (even if it is a heavier car).thinking of the new Elise Sprint 220 myself as a toy, less weight and far far cheaper to track, also the V6 is a bit heavy(read expensive on parts) and to noisy for UK tracks.
think they have nit the nail on the head with the new Sprint
I was talking with my girlfriend (who really knows cars) about a potential "more dedicated" track car...instead of our beloved street-track Z4M. She knows a Lotus Elise, a Lotus Exige and a Porsche GT4... A good friend has a GT4, an other friend a 997 GT3 RS and she/we test-drove a Lotus Elise MK2 in the past before I bought the Z4M. Her verdict; "I have zero problems or worries of you driving on track at whatever speed, but no way you buy a death coffin on wheels like a Lotus". "If you buy something else for more dedicated track work; you are going to buy a Porsche and not a Lotus...so that you survive in case of a crash". Ok; that is decided then Porsche it is!
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