991.2 GT3 - Colours. Spec. Q+A. etc etc..
Discussion
dvshannow said:
Anyone tried a GTS on cups ? The main negative i had with it on track is it does understear a bit more than GT cars wondering if cups will fix that somewhat
Hi David - do you trail brake? I was taught to trail brake the GTS and I loved the way it handled by getting the weight over the front end and tucking into the corner with little or no understeer before powering out. Used it on road and track and it was proper fun.In contrast, my GT3 has RWS and is currently sat around 8-10mm too high on the front and whilst grip is on another level to the GTS, I’m not quite managing to effectively trail brake in the same way. Hoping a proper geo and some track time with an instructor in a couple of weeks will help that.
dvshannow said:
Anyone tried a GTS on cups ? The main negative i had with it on track is it does understear a bit more than GT cars wondering if cups will fix that somewhat
The GTS will understeer in extremis on a track despite trail braking..You need to brake earlier to settle the car, and adopt the classic 911 slow in and fast out technique to avoid understeer..Alternatively try one with RWS which banishes understeer to the history books, and makes the handling much more neutral. Or to put it another way less traditional 911 like and more mid-engined in terms of balance.
If you like traditional 911 dynamics avoid the RWS in other words..
Taffy66 said:
The GTS will understeer in extremis on a track despite trail braking..You need to brake earlier to settle the car, and adopt the classic 911 slow in and fast out technique to avoid understeer..
Alternatively try one with RWS which banishes understeer to the history books, and makes the handling much more neutral. Or to put it another way less traditional 911 like and more mid-engined in terms of balance.
If you like traditional 911 dynamics avoid the RWS in other words..
Depends where the understeer is, corner entry or just after.Alternatively try one with RWS which banishes understeer to the history books, and makes the handling much more neutral. Or to put it another way less traditional 911 like and more mid-engined in terms of balance.
If you like traditional 911 dynamics avoid the RWS in other words..
Any tracked car will need some thing like -2.4 up front on the camber even with rws.
You can trail as much as you like but once the car rolls off the oem camber that’s that.
A few are adding more rake to get a bit more weight over the front.
The new GT3 is very sharp and tucks back in with the tiniest throttle lift.
I have PDK and Manual gen2 GT3s. I tracked the Manual at Silverstone yesterday in the wet and finished running in the 800 miles by the end of the day. I wasn't pushing it due it having under 700 miles when I arrived and because of the rain. The handling was amazing in the wet and it didn't lose grip once. On the way home the exhaust note was on a different level to when I drove there. I'm not sure if its because I was using my GT4 as my daily before I took delivery of the two cars but hands down I find the manual far more engaging and fun to drive than the PDK.
Taffy66 said:
Porsche911R said:
The new GT3 is very sharp and tucks back in with the tiniest throttle lift.
That'll be the RWS working.....try that in a non RWS GTS and you'll be heading towards the armco headfirst...If you did not do any steering input the GTS would lift off over steer you backwards into the Armco, not head fist.
All RWS does it make it feel more like a GT4 or a shorter car imo and does not affect lift off over steer.
I am driving a PDK self driving :-) GT3 on Thursday at PEC so be interesting to see what it's like over my manual.
I have already heard of case's where people have spun manual GT3's on the road where the PDK.e-diff car would not have spun.
Porsche911R said:
I am not sure it is the RWS in that case, most cars will give you life off over steer, the new GT3 responds to it more than other cars I have, RWS is also dialed down in the manual VS the PDK car and does not go as far and of course no e-diff.
If you did not do any steering input the GTS would lift off over steer you backwards into the Armco, not head fist.
All RWS does it make it feel more like a GT4 or a shorter car imo and does not affect lift off over steer.
I am driving a PDK self driving :-) GT3 on Thursday at PEC so be interesting to see what it's like over my manual.
I have already heard of case's where people have spun manual GT3's on the road where the PDK.e-diff car would not have spun.
In terms of understeer on the 991, it does it on both corner entry and on exit if you get on the power too soon..The main benefit of RWS is to reduce understeer by rotating the car all through the corner.If you did not do any steering input the GTS would lift off over steer you backwards into the Armco, not head fist.
All RWS does it make it feel more like a GT4 or a shorter car imo and does not affect lift off over steer.
I am driving a PDK self driving :-) GT3 on Thursday at PEC so be interesting to see what it's like over my manual.
I have already heard of case's where people have spun manual GT3's on the road where the PDK.e-diff car would not have spun.
Understeer is much worse on 991.2 compared to 991.1 due to the enormous torque it has through the rev range..The gen 1 doesn't have enough torque IME to adjust mid cornering behaviour..With RWS the natural handling balance is to make it neutral, in fact it will slide on both front and rear wheels which i love, as i hate undesteer and equally snap oversteer.
I have never driven a 991.2 with both manual and RWS so it probably makes a big a bigger difference with a PDK/E diff..Certainly with a manual non RWS you need to get all your braking done before corner entry and no increase in throttle input until corner exit..
Are you sure that the RWS is calibrated less aggressively on a manual GT3 compared to the PDKS as i thought they were the same..I realise the manual diff makes a big difference compared to the E diff, but i'm unsure on the RWS..
I would never buy any 991 without RWS ever again..
Taffy66 said:
In terms of understeer on the 991, it does it on both corner entry and on exit if you get on the power too soon..The main benefit of RWS is to reduce understeer by rotating the car all through the corner.
Understeer is much worse on 991.2 compared to 991.1 due to the enormous torque it has through the rev range..The gen 1 doesn't have enough torque IME to adjust mid cornering behaviour..With RWS the natural handling balance is to make it neutral, in fact it will slide on both front and rear wheels which i love, as i hate undesteer and equally snap oversteer.
I have never driven a 991.2 with both manual and RWS so it probably makes a big a bigger difference with a PDK/E diff..Certainly with a manual non RWS you need to get all your braking done before corner entry and no increase in throttle input until corner exit..
Are you sure that the RWS is calibrated less aggressively on a manual GT3 compared to the PDKS as i thought they were the same..I realise the manual diff makes a big difference compared to the E diff, but i'm unsure on the RWS..
I would never buy any 991 without RWS ever again..
yes I am told it does not move to the same angle as the PDK/E-diff cars.Understeer is much worse on 991.2 compared to 991.1 due to the enormous torque it has through the rev range..The gen 1 doesn't have enough torque IME to adjust mid cornering behaviour..With RWS the natural handling balance is to make it neutral, in fact it will slide on both front and rear wheels which i love, as i hate undesteer and equally snap oversteer.
I have never driven a 991.2 with both manual and RWS so it probably makes a big a bigger difference with a PDK/E diff..Certainly with a manual non RWS you need to get all your braking done before corner entry and no increase in throttle input until corner exit..
Are you sure that the RWS is calibrated less aggressively on a manual GT3 compared to the PDKS as i thought they were the same..I realise the manual diff makes a big difference compared to the E diff, but i'm unsure on the RWS..
I would never buy any 991 without RWS ever again..
The programming on the PDK with E-diff and RWS is the big gains hence why the E-diff is also removed in the manual and why people are getting into a bit of trouble as the cars a bit of a beast.
Perfect pairing would be GT3 manual and PDK RS to own one for fun/involvment one for lap times.
Porsche911R said:
I think they come to the free section after 2 months, it must be due,
there was another one yesterday for PDK vs manual with a firm manual win
I thought at the start it was going to poo poo the manual.
he did start with "the much-hyped stickshift option for the second-generation 991 GT3 isn’t the right transmission for this car"
Whist its hard to argue that the manual gives an experience of interaction that the PDK can just not hope to match on road at least. But on track no way would a MT GT3 get any place close to a well driven GT3.2 PDK.there was another one yesterday for PDK vs manual with a firm manual win
I thought at the start it was going to poo poo the manual.
he did start with "the much-hyped stickshift option for the second-generation 991 GT3 isn’t the right transmission for this car"
APOLO1 said:
Whist its hard to argue that the manual gives an experience of interaction that the PDK can just not hope to match on road at least. But on track no way would a MT GT3 get any place close to a well driven GT3.2 PDK.
Agree but the 3 RS has over taken the PDK GT3 in the race for lap times and the one to now own.I look forward to a trip out in the RS when you get it ;-) it's hard to think it will be even faster than what you already have... but more aero and even wider front tyres will take some getting used to how fast the new RS will corner.
the Manual GT3 is what it is for the old school die hards ;-) a bit of fun to get out at the week ends in.
Taffy66 said:
In terms of understeer on the 991, it does it on both corner entry and on exit if you get on the power too soon..The main benefit of RWS is to reduce understeer by rotating the car all through the corner.
Exactly how does rear wheel steer reduce understeer by 'rotating the car all through the corner'? In most corners on track, the speeds are not going to be below the level that rear wheel steer turns in opposite direction to the front wheels. When it rotates with the front wheels it effectively lengthens the wheel base and makes the car more stable on quick corners. it's the rear wheel braking and e-diff that are the things that are reducing understeer. Taffy66 said:
Certainly with a manual non RWS you need to get all your braking done before corner entry and no increase in throttle input until corner exit..
you want to complete all your braking before turning into a corner with a rear engine 911.....? and you're wondering why the car is understeering....?isaldiri said:
Taffy66 said:
Taffy66 said:
Certainly with a manual non RWS you need to get all your braking done before corner entry and no increase in throttle input until corner exit..
you want to complete all your braking before turning into a corner with a rear engine 911.....? and you're wondering why the car is understeering....?Edited by Dr S on Thursday 31st May 13:02
Dr S said:
Thought exactly the same. You need to trail brake for the weight transfer to increase front-end grip and reduce understeer
I agree hence why adding more rake is working out very well at the turn in point of the bend.if the weights there to give you the turn in and the camber is there to give you the grip, there is very little trail needed, any braking is bad for speed ;-)
the issue then is once in the bend you need the camber to be there for you, other wise you will have to slow down way too much
I have seen people pivot oem geo cars under brakes in 911's but there Apex speed was all gone !!! And I mean VERY slow apex speeds. these said same people say "the cars don't understeer" but FFS they have lost any corner exit speed what so ever and you never get that back down the straights.
these are all the key points about the difference between a ok driver and a very good driver who magic's those extra 2 seconds a lap.
ALL time is made under brakes and in the 1st part of the bend, hence PDK gives you a MASSIVE advantage. the rest of the circuit is quite simple, hoon it out the bend with maybe some steering correction and off down the straights !!!
GT4 had great apex speeds, not tracked a RWS car yet myself but been in them. inside the car the RWS as a passenger made the car feel more GT4 like.
All I notice atm on the limit on the road with an oem geo the cars very very alive, on throttle lift the nose tucks right back in on round abouts at quite a speed. This is going to catch a lot of people out imo on the manual cars.
blackmamba said:
Tony 1234 said:
Cheib said:
It’s a GT3...it needs and deserves to look special!
Tony 1234 said:
blackmamba said:
Tony 1234 said:
Cheib said:
It’s a GT3...it needs and deserves to look special!
Tony 1234 said:
blackmamba said:
Tony 1234 said:
Cheib said:
It’s a GT3...it needs and deserves to look special!
Tony 1234 said:
blackmamba said:
Tony 1234 said:
Cheib said:
It’s a GT3...it needs and deserves to look special!
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff