991.2 GT3 - Colours. Spec. Q+A. etc etc..

[isaldiri]

Taffy66 said:

I had PCCBs on my GT4 and you tell when driving fast on a bumpy road in wheel rebound..GT4 benefits most from PCCBs as its a full 18kg unsprung weight saving on a car which weighs 75Kg less than a manual 991.2 GT3...

I am not really making a claim either way about the benefits or otherwise of ceramics. Personally I've driven on both on a gt car but felt little difference but can accept some people do. Someone smarter than me has pointed out that one never talks about how much less feel a set of new tyres has compared to the worn set when the rotational impact is not entirely dissimilar to the weight saving on ceramics though....

But anyhow I was more observing that 911R was happy to talk up steel vs ceramic on the gt4 when the impact would actually be more when he had steels but has curiously changed his mind on the gt3 which coincidentally he has ceramics on...

[Porsche911R]

isaldiri said:

Brake performance on the GT cars is tyre limited.

not true ;-)

[Porsche911R]

isaldiri said:

But anyhow I was more observing that 911R was happy to talk up steel vs ceramic on the gt4 when the impact would actually be more when he had steels but has curiously changed his mind on the gt3 which coincidentally he has ceramics on...

why do you think I choose PCCB this time round ;-) I said the cost was NOT worth it on the GT4 price point, it' was a massive % of the cars cost. I never said a GT4 with steels would have the same feel did I ! I did say the GT4 lacks bite on the oem set up.
What I also said was the steels are up to the job unlike the R and other cars which have brakes not quite upto it esp every BMW !

Having owned the GT4 on steels and running the R vs the Spyder with one of each brake system on it, I went all out on the GT3 to get the best you can get money no object. No back tracking what so ever I have ran a PCCB car for 7 years. ANd while the GT4 steels are up to the job the PCCB do a better job in more area's inc. looks and not having bloody disk hubs !!! and of course some buy them just so they don't spend 3 hours cleaning wheels :-)

Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 26th September 18:11

[isaldiri]

Porsche911R said:

isaldiri said:

Brake performance on the GT cars is tyre limited.

not true ;-)

2 can play this game.

Oh yes it is tyre limited. More than comparable test has proven that.

[RBT0]

Still not clear to me which ones are the cheapest to maintain w/o doing track days (or just few per year), steel or PCCB? Let's say 3k miles per year...

[Taffy66]

Porsche911R said:

isaldiri said:

Brake performance on the GT cars is tyre limited.

not true ;-)

Ultimately what determines maximum braking distance is tyre contact patch in relation to speed and weight of car..PCCBs offer vastly improved fade resistance which means that after repeated hard braking its the brake rotors which determine braking distance.
This means your both right..

[MartinRS2K]

RBT0 said:

Still not clear to me which ones are the cheapest to maintain w/o doing track days (or just few per year), steel or PCCB? Let's say 3k miles per year...

I’ll save the money in pH neutral alloy wheel cleaner as the PCCB’s leave no brake dust on the wheels and are a doddle to keep clean.

In my first 3000 miles I’ve found them amazing

[LaurasOtherHalf]

I've driven back to back with steels vs ceramics at the Porsche Experience Centre and the difference was indeed massive (was the 987 Spyder event).

[isaldiri]

Taffy66 said:

Ultimately what determines maximum braking distance is tyre contact patch in relation to speed and weight of car..PCCBs offer vastly improved fade resistance which means that after repeated hard braking its the brake rotors which determine braking distance.

I don't believe you can cause the 380mm iron rotors on a GT car to overheat to the point that you start getting brake fade. Or if you can the ceramics are likely going to have the same issue and/or the rest of the braking system is going to be overheating anyway. Car and driver in the US I believe did a comparison test on this some years ago between 2 Porsches with steels and ceramics and found their performance to be very similar over a large number of stops. Evo irrc also did a similar test on a Jaguar or something and found the same.

P.S and braking distance I don't believe actually takes weight of the car into account as long as the brakes can cope with the heat dissipation, merely coefficient of friction (between the tyre and road) and speed.

Edited by isaldiri on Wednesday 26th September 19:53

[GT4RS]

isaldiri said:

Porsche911R said:

I act said the GT4 had very little bite, but is another 80kg lighter than a GT3 and a lot slower.
The GT4 never rips your face off like my other 2 cars.
I would not want the same set up as that on a 500bhp car which weighs a lot more.

plus the cost was too a big a % on a £64k car to add PCCB imo.

I have always raved about PCCB on the 987 platform, it's night and day performance.

I think the steels are fine for the GT4, but the car would feel better with PCCB's. but the GT4 needs better pad for more bite say a DS1.11 or some thing.

Brake performance on the GT cars is tyre limited. Steel 380s aren't going to fade so ceramics don't have any advantage there either.

Also, the fact the gt4 is lighter than the gt3 means any weight saving from ceramics will actually be more significant as it's a larger % of weight reduced.

The post above is correct, good input

[Taffy66]

isaldiri said:

I don't believe you can cause the 380mm iron rotors on a GT car to overheat to the point that you start getting brake fade. Or if you can the ceramics are likely going to have the same issue and/or the rest of the braking system is going to be overheating anyway. Car and driver in the US I believe did a comparison test on this some years ago between 2 Porsches with steels and ceramics and found their performance to be very similar over a large number of stops. Evo irrc also did a similar test on a Jaguar or something and found the same.

I agree from a pure braking POV the 380mm steels on the GT4 is already overkill, as 385HP on a 1340Kg car gets a relatively easy time compared to the same brakes on a 540HP and 1670Kg 991 Turbo Cabrio.
The benefits i found on my GT4 was enhanced wheel control on bumpy roads due to 18KG unsprung saving..The car which benefits least in terms of improved braking also benefits the most from savings in unsprung weight..

[A1mjb]

Taffy66 said:

I agree from a pure braking POV the 380mm steels on the GT4 is already overkill, as 385HP on a 1340Kg car gets a relatively easy time compared to the same brakes on a 540HP and 1670Kg 991 Turbo Cabrio.
The benefits i found on my GT4 was enhanced wheel control on bumpy roads due to 18KG unsprung saving..The car which benefits least in terms of improved braking also benefits the most from savings in unsprung weight..

Good to see the post alive again !!
Went quiet for a few days
Anyone heard next allocations of Gt3rs.2
And the particulate filter ?

[xbowdan]

RBT0 said:

Still not clear to me which ones are the cheapest to maintain w/o doing track days (or just few per year), steel or PCCB? Let's say 3k miles per year...

My 997.1RS on ceramics- 20+ trackdays, 18k Miles - new pads @£900 per 4 trackdays. 19k for replacement rotors at end of ownership.

My 991.2 GT3 on steels- 2 track days, no brake fade at all, 3k miles, plenty left on everything.

I really don’t see me spending £24k on discs and pads on in 18k miles on my steels.

As for “feeling it”, what a load of bullst on a road car!!! Some of the things you read on this forum are so laughable regarding precise setup and ‘feeling’ a few kgs!! Just drive them and enjoy yourself, who gives a F about a half second a lap on a road car track day!!

[Racer26]

xbowdan said:

My 997.1RS on ceramics- 20+ trackdays, 18k Miles - new pads @£900 per 4 trackdays. 19k for replacement rotors at end of ownership.

My 991.2 GT3 on steels- 2 track days, no brake fade at all, 3k miles, plenty left on everything.

I really don’t see me spending £24k on discs and pads on in 18k miles on my steels.

As for “feeling it”, what a load of bullst on a road car!!! Some of the things you read on this forum are so laughable regarding precise setup and ‘feeling’ a few kgs!! Just drive them and enjoy yourself, who gives a F about a half second a lap on a road car track day!!

+1 Well said.

[993rsr]

Porsche911R said:

hunter 66 said:

Porsche911R , go and put some PPF on your car and drive ... maybe even on track ... all the drivel is even driving me mad .......

Yesterdays hoon, no need to spunk £1.5k on track when you live next to roads like this.

So no drivel and not a piece of PPF in site, I drive for fun pretty much every day of my life.
testing out the clubby after a few tweaks, and this colder weather making the turbo pull very hard.

pretty much a daily thing be it the clubby, Spyder or the GT3 only thing in common is they are all manual :-)

Prob nip out in a bit for a sun set drive and photoshoot :-)

Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 26th September 16:50

I'm amazed you have time to drive, you're always posting on here!!

[993rsr]

p1stonhead said:

Porsche911R said:

Phooey said:

Yup, by about £2-3k.

In all seriousness, and just to put the PCCB myth to bed, I asked a couple of OPCs a few weeks ago how much *extra* they'd pay for PCCBs. Difficult to get a definitive figure.. but basically - depends on the overall spec of the car, but.... "upto £3k!". So yes, PCCBs cars will be worth more, but not £6k more. How do I know? I've just sold my GT3.

the opc will take a bath on your car imo, it was a very low spec, you are very lucky to get what you did. they have dropped it from the £35k overs already, but it still looks very bad value.

buyers are not stupid they are looking at the list price of cars for sale , not the bottom line price of cars for sale.

I own 2 cars with PCCB, I would not go back, they are amazing, and the weight saving on the GT3 is big, makes for a far better steer esp when I get my wheels saving another 11kg's in rotation and unsprung mass.

Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 26th September 16:11

You cant seriously suggest you can tell the difference unless you are a test driver doing lap after lap for Porsche.

Oh he can, and does, post count through the roof with nothing of use to offer except the perpetual self opinionated drivel.

There was a sliver of hope that the forum might actually offer something useful but once again we are back to Porsche911R white noise...

Has anyone actually witnessed the master in action on track?

For god's sake man you've lost any shred of credibility FFS give it a rest.

[Porsche911R]

993rsr said:

Oh he can, and does, post count through the roof with nothing of use to offer except the perpetual self opinionated drivel.

There was a sliver of hope that the forum might actually offer something useful but once again we are back to Porsche911R white noise...

Has anyone actually witnessed the master in action on track?

For god's sake man you've lost any shred of credibility FFS give it a rest.

Stuck record, yawn ! , Trolling today is rife. people do get angry if they feel they are missing out of something money cannot buy..
You refused to chat off line, you refused to go out on track with me, you now slag me off , but you want all my data !

[993rsr]

Porsche911R said:

993rsr said:

Oh he can, and does, post count through the roof with nothing of use to offer except the perpetual self opinionated drivel.

There was a sliver of hope that the forum might actually offer something useful but once again we are back to Porsche911R white noise...

Has anyone actually witnessed the master in action on track?

For god's sake man you've lost any shred of credibility FFS give it a rest.

Stuck record, yawn ! , Trolling today is rife. people do get angry if they feel they are missing out of something money cannot buy..
You refused to chat off line, you refused to go out on track with me, you now slag me off , but you want all my data !

Like many on here, tired of your posting style, you really are an odious individual who just want's to be omnipresent on the forum.

What do you mean people getting angry missing out on something money cannot buy?

Oh and as for wanting all your data, don't get delusions of grandeur.

[Porsche911R]

993rsr said:

Like many on here, tired of your posting style, you really are an odious individual who just want's to be omnipresent on the forum.

What do you mean people getting angry missing out on something money cannot buy?

Oh and as for wanting all your data, don't get delusions of grandeur.

You do your thing, I'll do mine, every one is happy. you can keep Trolling me and threads if you wish, there are no mods to ban you sadly, so knock yourself out :-) club together with Slippy and really go for it if you wish, it's good for the forum to see what people are really like on line.

We have you calling me a "extremely unpleasant and repulsive person" it's get better. I feel sorry for people who have the need to be so nasty to other people.

[993rsr]

Porsche911R said:

993rsr said:

Like many on here, tired of your posting style, you really are an odious individual who just want's to be omnipresent on the forum.

What do you mean people getting angry missing out on something money cannot buy?

Oh and as for wanting all your data, don't get delusions of grandeur.

You do your thing, I'll do mine, every one is happy. you can keep Trolling me and threads if you wish, there are no mods to ban you sadly, so knock yourself out :-) club together with Slippy and really go for it if you wish, it's good for the forum to see what people are really like on line.

We have you calling me a "extremely unpleasant and repulsive person" it's get better. I feel sorry for people who have the need to be so nasty to other people.

It's not trolling you, it's just I and many others are weary of your egocentric bias.