991.1 GT3RS - steels vs. ceramics
Discussion
After 2 years away from GT cars, I'm starting to feel the itch to get back into ownership - and now we see .1 RS's close to/below £200k I've starting looking at them with more interest.
Although well aquainted and comfortable with ceramics on the road, I'm open to cars with steels with the right 'discount' factored in. I've picked up that the new option price for ceramics is/was some £6-odd k but would appreciate any inputs you guys can give as to what level of price difference I should be looking at on an otherwise like-for-like spec/condition car.
TIA
Andy
Although well aquainted and comfortable with ceramics on the road, I'm open to cars with steels with the right 'discount' factored in. I've picked up that the new option price for ceramics is/was some £6-odd k but would appreciate any inputs you guys can give as to what level of price difference I should be looking at on an otherwise like-for-like spec/condition car.
TIA
Andy
£6k atm
new cars tend to go for overs and the overs are always the same price, people love to post up very cheap cars and say the markets falling, but these cheaper cars are still the same overs, some times a few ££ in overs more than the high spec cars in fact as people try it on.
One would have to say the new 991.2 GT3 looks a better buy at £130k though because they have done an proper job on the Engine. I am not sure what an RS brings to the party bar looks now, as normal all these cars are great at list, but at £220k one must be a bit uber rich.
I was shocked to see this new engine in a box standard GT3 with RS BHP but it makes the gen one 991 the R and the RS look very meh now.
Porsche even say the best engine they have ever done, that's going some.
new cars tend to go for overs and the overs are always the same price, people love to post up very cheap cars and say the markets falling, but these cheaper cars are still the same overs, some times a few ££ in overs more than the high spec cars in fact as people try it on.
One would have to say the new 991.2 GT3 looks a better buy at £130k though because they have done an proper job on the Engine. I am not sure what an RS brings to the party bar looks now, as normal all these cars are great at list, but at £220k one must be a bit uber rich.
I was shocked to see this new engine in a box standard GT3 with RS BHP but it makes the gen one 991 the R and the RS look very meh now.
Porsche even say the best engine they have ever done, that's going some.
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 22 March 09:15
Chamboy said:
After 2 years away from GT cars, I'm starting to feel the itch to get back into ownership - and now we see .1 RS's close to/below £200k I've starting looking at them with more interest.
Although well aquainted and comfortable with ceramics on the road, I'm open to cars with steels with the right 'discount' factored in. I've picked up that the new option price for ceramics is/was some £6-odd k but would appreciate any inputs you guys can give as to what level of price difference I should be looking at on an otherwise like-for-like spec/condition car.
TIA
Andy
Hey Andy - personally I would stretch to ceramics. I had them on my 997 GT3 and loved them. Aside from performance (which only really comes in on hard track use) they just look so much better, larger diameter fits the wheels much better and of course no dust...Although well aquainted and comfortable with ceramics on the road, I'm open to cars with steels with the right 'discount' factored in. I've picked up that the new option price for ceramics is/was some £6-odd k but would appreciate any inputs you guys can give as to what level of price difference I should be looking at on an otherwise like-for-like spec/condition car.
TIA
Andy
Has to be Carbon brakes from me also, having had the privilege of owning a UV 991 RS, had to say just looking at the brakes me dribble! Sooo much nicer to look at, but if tracking the car i would 100% take the steels option for sure.
Good luck with your search, exciting times lie ahead for you.
Good luck with your search, exciting times lie ahead for you.
And for track I would 100% go for ceramics ...
It's not hard to feel the difference ... in the tactility of the steering, in the responsiveness of the suspension, in the agility of reduced inertia ... and in the accelerated heat dissipation when worked consistently hard --- just make sure that you warm them up and cool them down !
It's not hard to feel the difference ... in the tactility of the steering, in the responsiveness of the suspension, in the agility of reduced inertia ... and in the accelerated heat dissipation when worked consistently hard --- just make sure that you warm them up and cool them down !
ChrisW. said:
And for track I would 100% go for ceramics ...
It's not hard to feel the difference ... in the tactility of the steering, in the responsiveness of the suspension, in the agility of reduced inertia ... and in the accelerated heat dissipation when worked consistently hard --- just make sure that you warm them up and cool them down !
+1It's not hard to feel the difference ... in the tactility of the steering, in the responsiveness of the suspension, in the agility of reduced inertia ... and in the accelerated heat dissipation when worked consistently hard --- just make sure that you warm them up and cool them down !
Guys
Thanks so much for the responses - kind of reinforces my thinking. After 2 GT3's its time for an RS so even IF i could get a place on the .2 list, the .1 RS is where my heart is. I've been to see a nice Steel low miler example - it has everything I would want bar the brakes - but in my heart of hearts I DO want/need Ceramics so unless there's a serious 'low ball' position available to give me the space for a retrofit I guess I'll be playing the waiting game - we can only see...
1st world problems and all that, eh!
Cheers,
Andy
Thanks so much for the responses - kind of reinforces my thinking. After 2 GT3's its time for an RS so even IF i could get a place on the .2 list, the .1 RS is where my heart is. I've been to see a nice Steel low miler example - it has everything I would want bar the brakes - but in my heart of hearts I DO want/need Ceramics so unless there's a serious 'low ball' position available to give me the space for a retrofit I guess I'll be playing the waiting game - we can only see...
1st world problems and all that, eh!
Cheers,
Andy
ChrisW. said:
And for track I would 100% go for ceramics ...
It's not hard to feel the difference ... in the tactility of the steering, in the responsiveness of the suspension, in the agility of reduced inertia ... and in the accelerated heat dissipation when worked consistently hard --- just make sure that you warm them up and cool them down !
the pccb are always bigger than the steels ! and you see many ceramic cars with glowing disks as they heat up quicker also, this then boils people fluid or as I have seen sets pads on fire as people think they can just misuse PCCB and stay out.It's not hard to feel the difference ... in the tactility of the steering, in the responsiveness of the suspension, in the agility of reduced inertia ... and in the accelerated heat dissipation when worked consistently hard --- just make sure that you warm them up and cool them down !
They do have better heat resilience, but then people don't seem to bleed the fluid after track days ! as the parts around these glowing disks are the same heat resilience !
race cars esp GT3 format use iron disks with a pad which works hotter, I think people stay oem pad on steels then want to track the car hard !
there are many plus and minus with either system the main one being cost of replacement with the PCCB's at £20k for 4 disks, if you want a car under warranty and stay oem.
And you also have to be very anal with cooling down laps, which is not ideal when the last track day I did had 7 red flags and you have to come straight in !
Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 23 March 09:14
Fl0pp3r said:
ChrisW. said:
And for track I would 100% go for ceramics ...
It's not hard to feel the difference ... in the tactility of the steering, in the responsiveness of the suspension, in the agility of reduced inertia ... and in the accelerated heat dissipation when worked consistently hard --- just make sure that you warm them up and cool them down !
+1It's not hard to feel the difference ... in the tactility of the steering, in the responsiveness of the suspension, in the agility of reduced inertia ... and in the accelerated heat dissipation when worked consistently hard --- just make sure that you warm them up and cool them down !
If you buy a car with PCCB's you can always put a set of steels on if you want to do heavy track work, if available for the RS?
You can always buy a set of Surface transforms which are also carbon and box your OEM items until resale.
https://surfacetransforms.com
A costly option, but a good one!
You can always buy a set of Surface transforms which are also carbon and box your OEM items until resale.
https://surfacetransforms.com
A costly option, but a good one!
The bit of advice I was given about PCCBs and track work was that the longer circuits, Spa Silverstone the 'Ring and the like, have the straights to allow sufficient coolingto keep the ceramics in their safe operating temperature range.
There is more risk of doing damage if you're at the shorter uk tracks.
Understand the need to warm up and cool down carefully but if they are overheating in the middle of your session that's a little academic.
Fokker said:
If you buy a car with PCCB's you can always put a set of steels on if you want to do heavy track work, if available for the RS?
the issue with putting steels on a PCCB car is the much larger size so you are adding even more weight with a 420mm Iron disk, it would be a daft thing to do !esp when there is nothing wrong with the 380mm oem set up.
abidr500 said:
The bit of advice I was given about PCCBs and track work was that the longer circuits, Spa Silverstone the 'Ring and the like, have the straights to allow sufficient coolingto keep the ceramics in their safe operating temperature range.
There is more risk of doing damage if you're at the shorter uk tracks.
Understand the need to warm up and cool down carefully but if they are overheating in the middle of your session that's a little academic.
I generally do two cooling down laps ... where I carry speed in the corners but try not to use the brakes .. regarding heat soak, that's why it's recommended not to run pad depth down below half the new thickness ..There is more risk of doing damage if you're at the shorter uk tracks.
Understand the need to warm up and cool down carefully but if they are overheating in the middle of your session that's a little academic.
Porsche911R said:
Fokker said:
If you buy a car with PCCB's you can always put a set of steels on if you want to do heavy track work, if available for the RS?
the issue with putting steels on a PCCB car is the much larger size so you are adding even more weight with a 420mm Iron disk, it would be a daft thing to do !esp when there is nothing wrong with the 380mm oem set up.
Chamboy said:
After 2 years away from GT cars, I'm starting to feel the itch to get back into ownership - and now we see .1 RS's close to/below £200k I've starting looking at them with more interest.
Although well aquainted and comfortable with ceramics on the road, I'm open to cars with steels with the right 'discount' factored in. I've picked up that the new option price for ceramics is/was some £6-odd k but would appreciate any inputs you guys can give as to what level of price difference I should be looking at on an otherwise like-for-like spec/condition car.
TIA
Andy
How are you getting on Andy? Found anything? No one really answered your question and I would say that the price difference is about 15-20k looking at the OPC market. There were two cars without PCCB recently, one at Cardiff and one at Swindon just below £200k and all those with PCCB's are min 215k.Although well aquainted and comfortable with ceramics on the road, I'm open to cars with steels with the right 'discount' factored in. I've picked up that the new option price for ceramics is/was some £6-odd k but would appreciate any inputs you guys can give as to what level of price difference I should be looking at on an otherwise like-for-like spec/condition car.
TIA
Andy
If you're looking at cars on Pistonheads as a whole then the narrowest gap currently apart from the one at AA performance car which is to me very much overpriced considering the base spec, is 10k. It will also obviously depend on the rest of the spec but the gap isn't 6k as was previously suggested. I would say you need to be paying a good 10-15k less for a car on steels. If they were 6k new then you have to factor in the whole car price increase and the PCCB's are a big part of that equation.
To me the RS will always be a prized item and no way can I see them dropping much in value. They might initially drop a bit more while the new GT3 is being delivered be they will stabilise and I can see some of those that didn't get a new GT3 allocation opting for one. They were 131k plus option new which is frankly pocket money for such a car.
Cheers
ChrisW. said:
I generally do two cooling down laps ... where I carry speed in the corners but try not to use the brakes .. regarding heat soak, that's why it's recommended not to run pad depth down below half the new thickness ..
It is also a fact that the pads wear unevenly in the calliper and taper. Whilst on your hands and knees bleeding the fluid after your trackday it pays to flip the pads to even the wear out. Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff