I doubt i will ever own a new GT car
Discussion
Shabs said:
If I were Porsche, I would simply rebaseline the list price for GT cars to generate the profit up front and unlimit the numbers. IMHO the current strategy is not customer friendly and will ultimately lose them custom across the range
But for the restricted number of hacked off customers Porsche gain many more customers so it is of limited concern to them as a PR exercise and business model overall.Don't forget they are masters at marketing.
Increasing the price of GT cars to their true value and increasing supply would actually be less profitable for Porsche as the brand filtering to higher production vanilla models would be substantially diluted.
av185 said:
But for the restricted number of hacked off customers Porsche gain many more customers so it is of limited concern to them as a PR exercise and business model overall.
Don't forget they are masters at marketing.
Increasing the price of GT cars to their true value and increasing supply would actually be less profitable for Porsche as the brand filtering to higher production vanilla models would be substantially diluted.
Agreed. Porsche have not become the world's most profitable car manufacturer by accident.Don't forget they are masters at marketing.
Increasing the price of GT cars to their true value and increasing supply would actually be less profitable for Porsche as the brand filtering to higher production vanilla models would be substantially diluted.
av185 said:
But for the restricted number of hacked off customers Porsche gain many more customers so it is of limited concern to them as a PR exercise and business model overall.
Don't forget they are masters at marketing.
Increasing the price of GT cars to their true value and increasing supply would actually be less profitable for Porsche as the brand filtering to higher production vanilla models would be substantially diluted.
That's an interesting point but what price would a GT3 be? £200k? That's proper supercar money. Don't forget they are masters at marketing.
Increasing the price of GT cars to their true value and increasing supply would actually be less profitable for Porsche as the brand filtering to higher production vanilla models would be substantially diluted.
However good they are, they share a body with the vanilla 911 and probably aren't percieved to be exotic in the way that an M4 is related to the 4 series
They have sold them too close to the normal 911 model pricepoint for too long really
Also I do wonder how many they would sell if they were unlimited. If they are doing it right it would be only a small amount more. I know you read about a lot of people on here who are dissapointed, but is this a representative sample?
I think the rarity makes them more desirable too. I bet Porsche have optimised the price they can charge with the volume they can sell. If they were more expensive, orless, they would probably sell less over time
As for the story of the man who bought 13 Macans to get an RS, I seriously doubt that anyone with the business acumen to have that sort of money spare, would waste that much rather than pay a speculator £30k for the car
Edited by jakesmith on Friday 31st March 21:44
jakesmith said:
That's an interesting point but what price would a GT3 be? £200k? That's proper supercar money.
However good they are, they share a body with the vanilla 911 and probably aren't percieved to be exotic in the way that an M4 is related to the 4 series
They have sold them too close to the normal 911 model pricepoint for too long really
Yes, the anticipated premium price on the 991.2 GT3 is interestingly £200k or thereabouts. Not hard to see why, as for all intents it will be on a par with the currently £200k 991 RS but with a torquier and higher revving engine. Manual gearbox or quicker changing PDK S to boot.However good they are, they share a body with the vanilla 911 and probably aren't percieved to be exotic in the way that an M4 is related to the 4 series
They have sold them too close to the normal 911 model pricepoint for too long really
Edited by jakesmith on Friday 31st March 21:44
Ceiling price on the 991.1 GT3 right spec was £170k+ Summer 2015.
Agree £200k is effectively supercar money and Porsche deliberately underprice their GT cars having regard to their overall ability. Look at the £95k GTS which whilst being a great package nevertheless looks expensive compared to even the recently price hiked £111800 GT3.
Exclusivity is an interesting one too. Whilst Ferrari has the edge for many, don't forget that the fantastic 458 is relatively common compared to the 991.1 GT3 with as many as c 1200 examples in the UK v 332 GT3s.
av185 said:
Yes, the anticipated premium price on the 991.2 GT3 is interestingly £200k or thereabouts. Not hard to see why, as for all intents it will be on a par with the currently £200k 991 RS but with a torquier and higher revving engine. Manual gearbox or quicker changing PDK S to boot.
Ceiling price on the 991.1 GT3 right spec was £170k+ Summer 2015.
Agree £200k is effectively supercar money and Porsche deliberately underprice their GT cars having regard to their overall ability. Look at the £95k GTS which whilst being a great package nevertheless looks expensive compared to even the recently price hiked £111800 GT3.
Exclusivity is an interesting one too. Whilst Ferrari has the edge for many, don't forget that the fantastic 458 is relatively common compared to the 991.1 GT3 with as many as c 1200 examples in the UK v 332 GT3s.
Is it a numbers game or is it a brand positioning one? We might differentiate a GT3, but to Joe Punter it's another 911. A Ferrari is a step up in exclusivity and brand perception in many people's minds, for right or for wrong. Ceiling price on the 991.1 GT3 right spec was £170k+ Summer 2015.
Agree £200k is effectively supercar money and Porsche deliberately underprice their GT cars having regard to their overall ability. Look at the £95k GTS which whilst being a great package nevertheless looks expensive compared to even the recently price hiked £111800 GT3.
Exclusivity is an interesting one too. Whilst Ferrari has the edge for many, don't forget that the fantastic 458 is relatively common compared to the 991.1 GT3 with as many as c 1200 examples in the UK v 332 GT3s.
Then we move on to McLaren. At £150k say the market is wide open. Would you take a 911 over a 570s? I'm thinking hard about that and in my mind, as a life long Porsche driver, the Macca is more exciting.
I think porsche are playing on the fact that people want what they can't have in the hope it creates brand awareness - just like sex sells. Unfortunately, at the price point GT cars are going for people can afford a lot of sex and can generally get the thrills they are after in different ways. The whole GT thing is getting a bit boring so I just moved on and bought another fun thing. Speaking to my OPC, Maclaren may as well be handing out flyers in the car park they are losing that much high end custom and this is the problem. People who can afford a GTS but want a GT3 will be fanboys and live in hope, writing 100 page threads about the next iteration and scheming financially ruinous ways to buy this mythical beast. People in the £140+ bracket will just buy a Macca/R8/Ferrari/Lambo etc and move on because to them, its just a weekend car and not some defining life goal
So yes, it is working and Porsche is getting a huge amount of brand awareness, but sentiment is turning negative and customers are finding alternatives. In the world of business strategy, unhappy customers looking for alternatives is a leading indicator of hard times
So yes, it is working and Porsche is getting a huge amount of brand awareness, but sentiment is turning negative and customers are finding alternatives. In the world of business strategy, unhappy customers looking for alternatives is a leading indicator of hard times
Shabs said:
I think porsche are playing on the fact that people want what they can't have in the hope it creates brand awareness - just like sex sells. Unfortunately, at the price point GT cars are going for people can afford a lot of sex and can generally get the thrills they are after in different ways. The whole GT thing is getting a bit boring so I just moved on and bought another fun thing. Speaking to my OPC, Maclaren may as well be handing out flyers in the car park they are losing that much high end custom and this is the problem. People who can afford a GTS but want a GT3 will be fanboys and live in hope, writing 100 page threads about the next iteration and scheming financially ruinous ways to buy this mythical beast. People in the £140+ bracket will just buy a Macca/R8/Ferrari/Lambo etc and move on because to them, its just a weekend car and not some defining life goal
So yes, it is working and Porsche is getting a huge amount of brand awareness, but sentiment is turning negative and customers are finding alternatives. In the world of business strategy, unhappy customers looking for alternatives is a leading indicator of hard times
You must have a short memory? So yes, it is working and Porsche is getting a huge amount of brand awareness, but sentiment is turning negative and customers are finding alternatives. In the world of business strategy, unhappy customers looking for alternatives is a leading indicator of hard times
Ealrly adoptors of McLaren ran away so fast and promised never to return only a few years ago for a whole verity of reasons, didn't seem to do too much damage to their business strategy? Please don't think pissing off customers is exclusive to Porsche or the end of the world, I'm afraid to say.
jimmyslr said:
Then we move on to McLaren. At £150k say the market is wide open. Would you take a 911 over a 570s? I'm thinking hard about that and in my mind, as a life long Porsche driver, the Macca is more exciting.
Do you know the eye watering costs of running a MCL out of warrantee? Tony 1234 said:
Do you know the eye watering costs of running a MCL out of warrantee?
To be honest no, but from the many threads I have gained the impression that reliability has improved in mclaren's relatively short life. It did sound like early 12C customers did the beta testing for mclaren but that things had improved. For a car in the 150-200 range one would expect chunky running costs, especially in the main dealer network, as part of the joy of ownership! I'm think Ferrari etc.The very peculiar situation of immediate "overs" coupled with the first few years of any new car being relatively cost free (warranty, nothing's worn out yet and so on) mean that the financial proposition on new GT3s has become too attractive. Get to run a good car for free and make some money; what's not to like? Surely that's unsustainable and frankly I hope it is as this market anomaly is frustrating for many of us.
On the bright side it is pushing me to consider the many other options out there. I am in with a chance of a 991.2GT3 in the second wave having missed out on wave 1, but I'm not sure I fancy my chances. If I don't get one then I doubt I will bring myself to pay overs and it will be hello mclaren. I went to mclaren ascot at Christmas to get a feel for all the cars in the flesh as I'd never really spent much time up close. I wanted to hold off until I got a feel for my .2GT3 chances though.
I'm a lifelong Porsche fan, I've had a 964rs, a 993rs, a 996 GT3 cup car I raced and now a 997.2GT3 but these days it seems I can't get a new car. I'm fully au fait with porsche's business logic, but I'm not feeling the love for the brand in the same way I used to; it leaves an unpleasant taste. Then one hears stories of OPC DPs getting GT3s, and their friends and their family, then the richest customer as a perk etc. Let's see how things pan out over the next few months as wave 2 comes out and when the first cars start getting flipped. We saw it on the .1GT3, the RS and the GT4 and frankly it's getting boring.
Rant over 😀. It's a lovely day and I need to decide which car or bike to take out for a run, a quality problem!
Tony 1234 said:
jimmyslr said:
Then we move on to McLaren. At £150k say the market is wide open. Would you take a 911 over a 570s? I'm thinking hard about that and in my mind, as a life long Porsche driver, the Macca is more exciting.
Do you know the eye watering costs of running a MCL out of warrantee? Shabs said:
At £140k the competition is super tough and I wasn't happy to "make do" with a GTS. If I were Porsche, I would simply rebaseline the list price for GT cars to generate the profit up front and unlimit the numbers. IMHO the current strategy is not customer friendly and will ultimately lose them custom across the range
I wouldn't disagree with you. I think sentiment is turning somewhat; whilst the strategy previously added cachet it is now starting to piss people off. woollyjoe said:
R8 V10 manual is high on my list too, but I like the 911 package more - They are just better in almost every regard.
If not for manual, the recent good prices for 991.1 GT3 make them look great value. I can see they are all being sold too!
A £100k car list 4 years old with a black cloud over the engine is now good value at £130k If not for manual, the recent good prices for 991.1 GT3 make them look great value. I can see they are all being sold too!
the world and thoughts about cars have gone mad lol
with the new one out fully speced to the nines at £130k one would have to be crazy to be buying into the 991.1 GT3 market atm
Might be a nice buy at £90k but we are going to see a ton of GT3 to market on the part ex over the next 12 months.
jimmyslr said:
Is it a numbers game or is it a brand positioning one? We might differentiate a GT3, but to Joe Punter it's another 911. A Ferrari is a step up in exclusivity and brand perception in many people's minds, for right or for wrong.
Then we move on to McLaren. At £150k say the market is wide open. Would you take a 911 over a 570s? I'm thinking hard about that and in my mind, as a life long Porsche driver, the Macca is more exciting.
Hi Jimmy drove 488 on track and road .........amazing .........we love our Porsches , if you have time , at Donny we are shaking down some new RSRs soon ..Then we move on to McLaren. At £150k say the market is wide open. Would you take a 911 over a 570s? I'm thinking hard about that and in my mind, as a life long Porsche driver, the Macca is more exciting.
But hard to get a road car as my OPC said there is a lot of new buyers with big money , we knew a specialist sportscar company , which is now a bigger company things change
Porsche911R said:
A £100k car list 4 years old with a black cloud over the engine is now good value at £130k
the world and thoughts about cars have gone mad lol
with the new one out fully speced to the nines at £130k one would have to be crazy to be buying into the 991.1 GT3 market atm
Might be a nice buy at £90k but we are going to see a ton of GT3 to market on the part ex over the next 12 months.
Although the 8750 rpm max 991 RS engines have not been without issues. The 9000rpm max 991 GT3 engines are the sweeter engines too.the world and thoughts about cars have gone mad lol
with the new one out fully speced to the nines at £130k one would have to be crazy to be buying into the 991.1 GT3 market atm
Might be a nice buy at £90k but we are going to see a ton of GT3 to market on the part ex over the next 12 months.
Current c £200k for an RS could make the £130k 991.1 GT3 look like a bargain....as the JZM car selling quickly within days recently proved.
jimmyslr said:
Tony 1234 said:
Do you know the eye watering costs of running a MCL out of warrantee?
To be honest no, but from the many threads I have gained the impression that reliability has improved in mclaren's relatively short life. It did sound like early 12C customers did the beta testing for mclaren but that things had improved. For a car in the 150-200 range one would expect chunky running costs, especially in the main dealer network, as part of the joy of ownership! I'm think Ferrari etc.The very peculiar situation of immediate "overs" coupled with the first few years of any new car being relatively cost free (warranty, nothing's worn out yet and so on) mean that the financial proposition on new GT3s has become too attractive. Get to run a good car for free and make some money; what's not to like? Surely that's unsustainable and frankly I hope it is as this market anomaly is frustrating for many of us.
On the bright side it is pushing me to consider the many other options out there. I am in with a chance of a 991.2GT3 in the second wave having missed out on wave 1, but I'm not sure I fancy my chances. If I don't get one then I doubt I will bring myself to pay overs and it will be hello mclaren. I went to mclaren ascot at Christmas to get a feel for all the cars in the flesh as I'd never really spent much time up close. I wanted to hold off until I got a feel for my .2GT3 chances though.
I'm a lifelong Porsche fan, I've had a 964rs, a 993rs, a 996 GT3 cup car I raced and now a 997.2GT3 but these days it seems I can't get a new car. I'm fully au fait with porsche's business logic, but I'm not feeling the love for the brand in the same way I used to; it leaves an unpleasant taste. Then one hears stories of OPC DPs getting GT3s, and their friends and their family, then the richest customer as a perk etc. Let's see how things pan out over the next few months as wave 2 comes out and when the first cars start getting flipped. We saw it on the .1GT3, the RS and the GT4 and frankly it's getting boring.
Rant over ??. It's a lovely day and I need to decide which car or bike to take out for a run, a quality problem!
jimmyslr said:
av185 said:
Yes, the anticipated premium price on the 991.2 GT3 is interestingly £200k or thereabouts. Not hard to see why, as for all intents it will be on a par with the currently £200k 991 RS but with a torquier and higher revving engine. Manual gearbox or quicker changing PDK S to boot.
Ceiling price on the 991.1 GT3 right spec was £170k+ Summer 2015.
Agree £200k is effectively supercar money and Porsche deliberately underprice their GT cars having regard to their overall ability. Look at the £95k GTS which whilst being a great package nevertheless looks expensive compared to even the recently price hiked £111800 GT3.
Exclusivity is an interesting one too. Whilst Ferrari has the edge for many, don't forget that the fantastic 458 is relatively common compared to the 991.1 GT3 with as many as c 1200 examples in the UK v 332 GT3s.
Is it a numbers game or is it a brand positioning one? We might differentiate a GT3, but to Joe Punter it's another 911. A Ferrari is a step up in exclusivity and brand perception in many people's minds, for right or for wrong. Ceiling price on the 991.1 GT3 right spec was £170k+ Summer 2015.
Agree £200k is effectively supercar money and Porsche deliberately underprice their GT cars having regard to their overall ability. Look at the £95k GTS which whilst being a great package nevertheless looks expensive compared to even the recently price hiked £111800 GT3.
Exclusivity is an interesting one too. Whilst Ferrari has the edge for many, don't forget that the fantastic 458 is relatively common compared to the 991.1 GT3 with as many as c 1200 examples in the UK v 332 GT3s.
Then we move on to McLaren. At £150k say the market is wide open. Would you take a 911 over a 570s? I'm thinking hard about that and in my mind, as a life long Porsche driver, the Macca is more exciting.
Whilst being more 'common' in terms of numbers produced, the 458 is arguably more exclusive with the Ferrari badge but as a drivers car in terms of involvement the 991 GT3 is ahead I say this not only as a past enthusiastic 458 (Italia) owner, but this was also confirmed by Steve Sutcliffe at the time in his previous eminant life with Autocar.
Re the Mclaren, nice contemporary package, but too expensive, high depreciation and running costs and poor dealer backup, expired future warranty implications are the usual obvious gripes. But the main one is the turbo engine. Although the lack of 'manuel' gearbox will be the biggest killer for most keen drivers.
And these are areas where the Porsche wins hands down.
SidewaysSi said:
I am a Porsche GT man - a McLaren is not my sort of thing at all - I have no desire at all to get ome. Likewise I find R8s dull and Ferraris too OTT.
And that's why Porsche can continue doing what they are doing. When you have a captive market, people keep coming back for more no matter how much they have got run over before 
MDL111 said:
Tony 1234 said:
jimmyslr said:
Then we move on to McLaren. At £150k say the market is wide open. Would you take a 911 over a 570s? I'm thinking hard about that and in my mind, as a life long Porsche driver, the Macca is more exciting.
Do you know the eye watering costs of running a MCL out of warrantee? Plus service every year @ £2600 plus parts, and you have to put up with (IMO) shoddy fitting body panels
A GT Porsche is MILES cheaper to run than that!!
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