How important is outright performance?
Discussion
Outright performance in the modern day is much less relevant than in once was.....with all sorts of machinery able to break 5 and even 4 secs people just don't get close to the performance envelope of these cars on public roads. In the days when a performance car was 0-60 in say 6 secs and a hot hatch was 8 secs you genuinely could use all of that performance on a back road blast.
The body dials itself into speed very quickly. So thrills are pretty short lived. A day of 400 bhp and you'll want 500. After a day of 500 you will want 600 etc..The buzz is in the poise and handling. Braking and cornering is where the real fun is to be had. for some reason the body and the brain take longer to dial into it so it stays a novelty for longer - but you cant really enjoy that on the road.
Digga said:
I checked and you;re right; the new 4l AMG V8 is based on two four-cyclinder units on a common crank. It does sound quite 'fruity' V8 though, which is quite clever. IIRC I think the config helps them run on one bank of cylinders on coasting for economy.
I knew the new one was a 4l but i didn't realise it was still a v8. It might be quicker in the dry but I bet if it's a bit damp, the 996 will have no issue storming away.Digga said:
FWIW and how it sounds, I'm pretty sure the latest AMG V8s are not flat plane cranks. I know some of the new BMW M units may be, but do not believe the Mercs are.
I think NA cars are key. I do love my 996 turbo and the power delivery is intoxicating, plus I love the subtle styling and engine links to the legendary GT1 and 959, but once on track, the throttle control through corners is much less adjustable, because of the effects of the turbos.
The M3 V8 is a cross-plane too. One that does 8400rpm I think NA cars are key. I do love my 996 turbo and the power delivery is intoxicating, plus I love the subtle styling and engine links to the legendary GT1 and 959, but once on track, the throttle control through corners is much less adjustable, because of the effects of the turbos.
At some point in history I had a TVR, it was fast in a straight line but could not handle at all. I liked the TVR bunch and kept in touch when I changed my TVR for an Elise (think it had 190bhp). In a straight line it was significantly slower, but on a real road it outperformed every TVR that I went on runs with (which was all of them). Handling, braking, feel and agility are what make a sports car IMO.
IMI A said:
Having the performance on the road is next to useless here in UK but send a Porsche turbo to any proper tuner and you will be smoking Ferrari 488, Maccas, NSX, GTR, Aventador, Huracan, F12 and the list goes on. Friend was in an F12 TDF last weekend and he thinks my 9e turbo pulls harder than it! .
But then tune the 488, Mac, gtr, huracan etc. by the same amount and suddenly the porsche turbo needs binoculars to see where the hell the other car went.TDF is a piece of automotive aristocracy, probably one of the most exciting, most coveted machines of the past 2 decades. Mentioning some crappy max powered blown 911 in the same paragraph is just insulting.
Juno said:
I've had more cars than I can remember and totally agree the most fun can be had from lower HP cars with a more analog delivery!
It is defiantly the twisties that count in my opinion where it's not all about out and out BHP.
I recently bought this bonkers build and rare EVO6RS and have to say I have never had more fun driving than in this thing!
Just 450hp circa 1200kgs, the only thing anything will see on the twisties is the rear end dissaper no matter what the horse power!
Long live the older less powerful analog light cars
GT3 still on order but for now this is my current fun!
Clean as well
A well setup caterham with about 250bhp will leave the evo for dead in about 3 corners. It can stop, change direction and get into an apex far far quicker, not to mention a higher bhp/ton so faster up to about 120/130.It is defiantly the twisties that count in my opinion where it's not all about out and out BHP.
I recently bought this bonkers build and rare EVO6RS and have to say I have never had more fun driving than in this thing!
Just 450hp circa 1200kgs, the only thing anything will see on the twisties is the rear end dissaper no matter what the horse power!
Long live the older less powerful analog light cars
GT3 still on order but for now this is my current fun!
Clean as well
SRT Hellcat said:
The Carrera GT gets my vote as one of the best supercars ever produced. The closest you can get to an LMP car for the road.
Agreed.The CGT is perhaps an example of a fast car that still gives in full when driven slowly. After a morning at the track yesterday experiencing for the first time the relentless V10 howl, but changing from 4th to 5th at a modest 7k, I then dawdled home through the 50mph average speed cameras on the M1 before a final B road run. The car is alive at any speed with a constant chatter and feedback while remaining comfortable and civilised. I have not driven any other car which communicates so much on so many different levels. Driving one is a richly rewarding experience.
lowndes said:
SRT Hellcat said:
The Carrera GT gets my vote as one of the best supercars ever produced. The closest you can get to an LMP car for the road.
Agreed.The CGT is perhaps an example of a fast car that still gives in full when driven slowly. After a morning at the track yesterday experiencing for the first time the relentless V10 howl, but changing from 4th to 5th at a modest 7k, I then dawdled home through the 50mph average speed cameras on the M1 before a final B road run. The car is alive at any speed with a constant chatter and feedback while remaining comfortable and civilised. I have not driven any other car which communicates so much on so many different levels. Driving one is a richly rewarding experience.
SRT Hellcat said:
The Carrera GT gets my vote as one of the best supercars ever produced. The closest you can get to an LMP car for the road.
Only thing closer is the McLaren F1 or, in terms of experience, in not authenticity, an Ultima.CGT is incredible. Being overtaken by a howling CGT was a highlight of my first trip to the Nurburgring.
WCZ said:
Digga said:
nly thing closer is the McLaren F1 or, in terms of experience, in not authenticity, an Ultima.
CGT is incredible. Being overtaken by a howling CGT was a highlight of my first trip to the Nurburgring.
the SGC003S is probably the closest thing you can buy CGT is incredible. Being overtaken by a howling CGT was a highlight of my first trip to the Nurburgring.
SRT Hellcat said:
The Carrera GT gets my vote as one of the best supercars ever produced. The closest you can get to an LMP car for the road.
This gets bandied around a lot. Let's see. LMP900 class car for 2000 - 900kg minimum weight, literally tons of downforce. CGT - 1460kg fully fuelled as delivered, a couple of hundred kg of downforce.
Similar?
The CGT is an extraordinary car and given the right circumstances provides an adrenaline hit that is hard to believe but a LMP car for the road it most certainly is not. Just because it's development was underpinned by the Porsche LMP2000 project, does not mean the completed car is anything like the original project. A Radical driven on the road will have far greater similarity than the CGT to a road going LMP car if that's what you're looking for.
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