Why is Clubsport considered essential on GT cars?

[Bunk]

I've often wondered this. I know the GT cars are road/track cars but how many people actually race or push the cars on track to the point where a rollover is a distinct risk/possibility? Most people I know actually going at it to that extent on track have actual non-road-legal track/race cars that they trailer to/from tracks.

It just seems weird to me that loads of people wouldn't consider buying a GT3 for example that didn't have the CS option, but half the time I wonder are they just going "look at me, I'm well hard, I am" and is this essentially just a fashion accessory for the car?

BTW I understand the buckets and am not talking about that, I personally don't find the sports seats in my 997 Turbo that comfortable where the race seats in my 458 are among the most comfortable seats I've ever owned, so I get someone wanting the buckets/sports buckets but personally, if my numbers come up and I get a 991.2 allocation, I think I'd find the practicality of being able to access the back of the car far more useful than the CS option.

I wouldnt be buying as a flipper but come eventual resale does this make it a dud?

[n17ves]

Bunk said:

I've often wondered this. I know the GT cars are road/track cars but how many people actually race or push the cars on track to the point where a rollover is a distinct risk/possibility? Most people I know actually going at it to that extent on track have actual non-road-legal track/race cars that they trailer to/from tracks.

It just seems weird to me that loads of people wouldn't consider buying a GT3 for example that didn't have the CS option, but half the time I wonder are they just going "look at me, I'm well hard, I am" and is this essentially just a fashion accessory for the car?

BTW I understand the buckets and am not talking about that, I personally don't find the sports seats in my 997 Turbo that comfortable where the race seats in my 458 are among the most comfortable seats I've ever owned, so I get someone wanting the buckets/sports buckets but personally, if my numbers come up and I get a 991.2 allocation, I think I'd find the practicality of being able to access the back of the car far more useful than the CS option.

I wouldnt be buying as a flipper but come eventual resale does this make it a dud?

Harnesses and buckets! The cage and extinguisher is a bonus.

I much prefer to be strapped in whilst driving on track, after all, a GT car is designed to be taken on track regularly.

[Digga]

For rear access, you can get folding buckets:

[throt]

I think when Porsche made the 991GT3 an ""auto"" it attracted a total different type of buyer. On release of the 991GT3 I was told that many were spec with the 18 way adaptives. However, I think the Gen2 will see the return of a large majority towards the bucket seats..Would be interesting to find out somehow the percentages of buckets / adaptives.

[Bunk]

Yes guys, as in my original post, I get the desire for the buckets but you can get those or the sports buckets without having to get the scaffolding in the back. On my old Gt3RS, I had the whole shebang but I felt supported enough in the buckets just using the regular seatbelt and half the time never bothered with the harnesses.

[Digga]

If you ever have a biggish off - speaking as someone who's experienced two - you will be happier with harnesses. I know they do offer support too, but IME their primary benefit is in limiting driver/passenger movement and injury in the (hopefully rare) event they are needed.

[MDL111]

for me, if a cage is available on a car I will take it for safety reasons. Mine did safe my life once on the road - did not wear the harness though which I rather regret as it lead to shaving off the top of my scalp on the windscreen.

Current car has no cage, but that is because it's a 2-tonne 4-seater

Would not consider a GT3/GT2 without cage if I ever buy one again

I do understand though why somebody would not want it as it does make the rear space pretty much useless which is a bit of a pain on longer trips

[Cheib]

Good question OP and one I have contemplated. I think a lot of people want a CS car because historically it seems like nobody specced buckets without the scaffolding.

I think for a decent amount of people its the Buckets they want rather than the Cage (including me)

I also think there will be a much higher uptake on PCCB's with 991.2

I think the "least popular" spec car would be a PDK, Comfort Spec (i.e. 18 ways and no Cage) and Steels. I think most people will at least one want one of Buckets, PCCB's, Cage and Manual. Although of course a track car will be very popular i.e. Steels, Cage, Buckets and PDK.

First world problems.

Edited by Cheib on Thursday 13th April 14:17

[Porsche911R]

"Why is Clubsport considered essential on GT cars?"

It's not I bet more GT4 and 991 GT3 were option without !

cages are a pain in the arse and clunk, also in the GT4 it did not seem worth it to add one for what it is plus the £2.8k and more weight.
At least in a GT3 it looks the part and is free.

[Digga]

Cheib said:

First world problems.

Speaking of which, I suspect the gardener of stealing the organic peanuts from the bird feeder.

[Bunk]

Porsche911R said:

"Why is Clubsport considered essential on GT cars?"

It's not I bet more GT4 and 991 GT3 were option without !

cages are a pain in the arse and clunk, also in the GT4 it did not seem worth it to add one for what it is plus the £2.8k and more weight.
At least in a GT3 it looks the part and is free.

I must admit I thought it was - looking at the Gt3 spec thread, practically everyone is picking the CS option and you often hear comments like the above "I wouldn't even consider a Gt3 that didn't have CS".

Now there are people who are pushing the car enough where it makes a difference but I suspect 90+% of people ordering clubsport are doing so purely for looks/cachet etc and don't need it.

Personally, I'm comfortable enough to admit that my track days are over (I'll still do them but family etc means they will be occasional rather than frequent), and I see the Gt3 as a way to get a 911R for a fraction of the price.

So I think I'lll be going non-CS, but with the Sports Buckets, and manual.**

ETA; ** should my lucky numbers come up and I get a car.

[cormeist]

I have a 991.1 GT3 with CS, having come from a 991.1 GT3-RS, i 100% prefer the Full buckets in the RS, over the folding Buckets, I find the folding buckets inner bolsters pinch my ribs, I'm not a fatty, just tall and large shoulders, and I like the fact the fixed buckets have the height option, if I do get a .2 I will 100% opt for the fixed buckets. And I for 1 think you have to have the CS Spec, what's the point owning a GT3 without one! For me, it's a occasion, makes me feel like I'm something special!

[mfmman]

Probably less of an issue in a modern car but in days past bucket seats and harnesses without a cage was considered more dangerous as a heavy roll would have seen the roof collapse inwards (at least in part) but no ability of the driver/passengers to move or be pushed away from it

[Porsche911R]

Bunk said:

I must admit I thought it was - looking at the Gt3 spec thread, practically everyone is picking the CS option and you often hear comments like the above "I wouldn't even consider a Gt3 that didn't have CS".

Now there are people who are pushing the car enough where it makes a difference but I suspect 90+% of people ordering clubsport are doing so purely for looks/cachet etc and don't need it.

Personally, I'm comfortable enough to admit that my track days are over (I'll still do them but family etc means they will be occasional rather than frequent), and I see the Gt3 as a way to get a 911R for a fraction of the price.

So I think I'lll be going non-CS, but with the Sports Buckets, and manual.**

ETA; ** should my lucky numbers come up and I get a car.

PH is a small amount of owners really. you get 20 or 30 owners from the 600 cars sold and those owners here shout louder that's all.

[Bunk]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

but if considering it as a cut price 911R, do you or don't you delete the stereo, or the air con or.......

round these ways, there were some who were vocal as calling stereo fitment to a 911R as heresy.

It is outrageous people spec cars they buy how they want them, as opposed to speccing them for residuals and willy waving purposes.

nah, I wouldn't be that anal about it. These things have so much power and capability these days I'm not going to notice the weight difference, Also, as I would intend to drive this car a lot (my 997 Turbo is currently my daily and this would replace it), despite what most purists would have you believe ("what do you need a stereo for when you have that engine" etc), you will end up spending a lot of time doing mundane stuff where you'll wish you had a stereo.

[throt]

cormeist said:

I have a 991.1 GT3 with CS, having come from a 991.1 GT3-RS, i 100% prefer the Full buckets in the RS, over the folding Buckets, I find the folding buckets inner bolsters pinch my ribs, I'm not a fatty, just tall and large shoulders, and I like the fact the fixed buckets have the height option, if I do get a .2 I will 100% opt for the fixed buckets. And I for 1 think you have to have the CS Spec, what's the point owning a GT3 without one! For me, it's a occasion, makes me feel like I'm something special!

This is it, all this ""are they comfortable"" is according to ones build and if they have a iffy lower back or not. If buckets butcher your lower back and ruin your drives out then you have to consider the normal seats. How the bigger set guys get comfortable in these seats is a head scratcher for me. Any of the seats available can't be the best seats in the house for the larger drivers.

[Bunk]

cormeist said:

I have a 991.1 GT3 with CS, having come from a 991.1 GT3-RS, i 100% prefer the Full buckets in the RS, over the folding Buckets, I find the folding buckets inner bolsters pinch my ribs, I'm not a fatty, just tall and large shoulders, and I like the fact the fixed buckets have the height option, if I do get a .2 I will 100% opt for the fixed buckets. And I for 1 think you have to have the CS Spec, what's the point owning a GT3 without one! For me, it's a occasion, makes me feel like I'm something special!

Re Fixed Buckets vs Sports Buckets, the only reason I would pick the folding ones is that I would put a fair amount of mileage on the car and the fixed ones would kill my back. When I had my Gt3RS, I also had a Challenge Stradale and the ability to recline the buckets in the Strad meant it was night and day comfort wise. I actually think the Ferrari bucket/race seats are among the most comfortable seats going - I'd have them in my Audi Q7 if I could.

[Digga]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Digga said:

Cheib said:

First world problems.

Speaking of which, I suspect the gardener of stealing the organic peanuts from the bird feeder.

I bet the Gamekeeper dobbed him in huh ?

Via the cleaner.

[cormeist]

Bunk said:

Re Fixed Buckets vs Sports Buckets, the only reason I would pick the folding ones is that I would put a fair amount of mileage on the car and the fixed ones would kill my back. When I had my Gt3RS, I also had a Challenge Stradale and the ability to recline the buckets in the Strad meant it was night and day comfort wise. I actually think the Ferrari bucket/race seats are among the most comfortable seats going - I'd have them in my Audi Q7 if I could.

But you can't recline the folding buckets... for me it's the padding in the inside bolsters that I don't like in the folding buckets, as a larger (taller) guy I was in heaven in the fixed. I have had back issues in the past, so was concerned the fixed would 'play up' but I was astonished to report that they were super comfortable !

[Fokker]

When I asked a dealer how specs were going they said everyone up to that point, a couple weeks ago had spec'd steels over ceramics. I would imagine a lot of people will be specing comfort and PDK just like the Gen 1. Why would it change?

A manual Club Sport car though would be my choice. If you have the buckets, you might as well have the safety harnesses and even better, they're free.
If I wasn't going to track it though, I'd probably go folding buckets and utilise the space in the rear for the odd pot plant from Homebase.