what is an 'early' 3.4 996?
Discussion
I'm reasonably sure I can leave most of my Porsches for 5 weeks and they wont go flat if the battery was fully charged at the start of the 5 weeks. The CSR is the exception as I think I have a problem with the ignition switch - soon to be changed. I do try to keep my batteries topped up with charge. That gets quite complicated as I'm juggling several cars [and now a Van] and I cant connect a charger to all of them without moving them around. I know I keep going on about LiFePo4 but I also have one in my big gay yellow truck. It is used as a leisure battery but charges off the alternator. I drove it around for a few hours this weekend because the Bluetooth monitor told me it was low. I got it up to 90% without much effort and no charging from the mains. You just cant do that with lead acid. They really need overnight charging if they are low.
I realize this might be an unpopular opinion, but regarding batteries, I like big old iron pigs of batteries.
I had a nut welded to the last hole of the battery tray, so I could fit a bigger 353x175x190 battery.
Out with the old 315x175x175 mm Varta with 85 Ah and 800 CCA and in with the new Exide 353x175x190 mm with 100 Ah and 900 CCA.
Yes, it is heavy, but with my driving profile, I wouldn‘t notice. I admire builds like the sub 1‘000kg 996, but I‘m very happy with my 1.45 ton (probably, with full fuel tank and driver) 997. Still feels light an nimble. And I like the cca‘s and that I don‘t have to worry nit driving it for a couple of weeks.
I had a nut welded to the last hole of the battery tray, so I could fit a bigger 353x175x190 battery.
Out with the old 315x175x175 mm Varta with 85 Ah and 800 CCA and in with the new Exide 353x175x190 mm with 100 Ah and 900 CCA.
Yes, it is heavy, but with my driving profile, I wouldn‘t notice. I admire builds like the sub 1‘000kg 996, but I‘m very happy with my 1.45 ton (probably, with full fuel tank and driver) 997. Still feels light an nimble. And I like the cca‘s and that I don‘t have to worry nit driving it for a couple of weeks.
gixermark said:
Hi guys,
Is there a month/year that indicates what an early 3.4 is? And does that engine generally not suffer bore score at all? I gather they have the dual row IMS so relatively safe?
My thinking is outside the turbos... An until you get into gen 2 997, the rest have questionable potential to go wrong.... I like the shape of the 997, but really wouldn't take the gamble of a gen 1...
Is an early 3.4 The 'safe' option? One of them with a factory aero kit in guards red sod be a nice keeper me thinks.....
500 pages later, has the answer been reached?Is there a month/year that indicates what an early 3.4 is? And does that engine generally not suffer bore score at all? I gather they have the dual row IMS so relatively safe?
My thinking is outside the turbos... An until you get into gen 2 997, the rest have questionable potential to go wrong.... I like the shape of the 997, but really wouldn't take the gamble of a gen 1...
Is an early 3.4 The 'safe' option? One of them with a factory aero kit in guards red sod be a nice keeper me thinks.....
julian987R said:
gixermark said:
Hi guys,
Is there a month/year that indicates what an early 3.4 is? And does that engine generally not suffer bore score at all? I gather they have the dual row IMS so relatively safe?
My thinking is outside the turbos... An until you get into gen 2 997, the rest have questionable potential to go wrong.... I like the shape of the 997, but really wouldn't take the gamble of a gen 1...
Is an early 3.4 The 'safe' option? One of them with a factory aero kit in guards red sod be a nice keeper me thinks.....
500 pages later, has the answer been reached?Is there a month/year that indicates what an early 3.4 is? And does that engine generally not suffer bore score at all? I gather they have the dual row IMS so relatively safe?
My thinking is outside the turbos... An until you get into gen 2 997, the rest have questionable potential to go wrong.... I like the shape of the 997, but really wouldn't take the gamble of a gen 1...
Is an early 3.4 The 'safe' option? One of them with a factory aero kit in guards red sod be a nice keeper me thinks.....
3.4 generally a safer bet than a 3.6 all round. Or just roll the dice and keep 10k in the bank for a Hartech job but don't expect to get it back when you sell.
Brakes.
I'm hoping to do some track days in my 996.1 C2 Coupe next year.
Background - I used to have an early S2000 that I thoroughly enjoyed taking to trackdays. Ironically the best brake setup I found for it was stock Honda discs & pads, Motul RBF600 fluid and a master cylinder brace (which massively improved the feel... at least in my head). I tried other combos including the 'halo' DBA4000 Discs with DS2500 pads, which I found to be absolutely awful.
I currently have, err, I think ECP pagid discs and pads on there, with whatever fluid was done at the service 18 months ago.
Based on what I've read, it seems like everyone says the stock setup is fine, and just do a fluid change for something a bit better (What do people recommend these days?) and potentially consider different pads and a GT3 master cylinder to improve the pedal feel.
So step one seems like I should do a fluid change before I do my first day, and put something good in (see above me asking for suggestions folks).
In case these ECP Pagid pads are going to be awful, what pads are people using? I hated the DS2500s as honestly they didn't seem any better than the Honda items on track, and on the road they were absolutely deadly until you had loads of heat in them. I want something that will be fine day to day if the wife takes the kids out in it for whatever reason.
Thanks in advance
I'm hoping to do some track days in my 996.1 C2 Coupe next year.
Background - I used to have an early S2000 that I thoroughly enjoyed taking to trackdays. Ironically the best brake setup I found for it was stock Honda discs & pads, Motul RBF600 fluid and a master cylinder brace (which massively improved the feel... at least in my head). I tried other combos including the 'halo' DBA4000 Discs with DS2500 pads, which I found to be absolutely awful.
I currently have, err, I think ECP pagid discs and pads on there, with whatever fluid was done at the service 18 months ago.
Based on what I've read, it seems like everyone says the stock setup is fine, and just do a fluid change for something a bit better (What do people recommend these days?) and potentially consider different pads and a GT3 master cylinder to improve the pedal feel.
So step one seems like I should do a fluid change before I do my first day, and put something good in (see above me asking for suggestions folks).
In case these ECP Pagid pads are going to be awful, what pads are people using? I hated the DS2500s as honestly they didn't seem any better than the Honda items on track, and on the road they were absolutely deadly until you had loads of heat in them. I want something that will be fine day to day if the wife takes the kids out in it for whatever reason.
Thanks in advance
Oops, too slow, responding to Shalmaneser. Judging by the last few pages of the poverty Pork thread shouldn't we be upping that to 12-15k? The receipt, for just under 9k, posted only shows three liners replaced and it is 7 years old. I've had 10k in my head for the last three and a half years, the cost of the 3.7 was quite an eye opener.
Personally if I need to call on Hartech in the future I'll definitey be going closed deck.
Personally if I need to call on Hartech in the future I'll definitey be going closed deck.
Edited by Cleanhands on Wednesday 30th November 22:45
Edited by Cleanhands on Wednesday 30th November 22:48
SteveStrange said:
I think there are several of us on this thread who have similar experiences. Mine ives outside, is my daily (school runs etc), rain, sun or now etc etc, and has a LOT more than 100k miles!
Mine is used daily, lives outside, 138k miles. I bought it to enjoy it not make money on it because its absolutely pristine with sub 70k miles. If its up to oil temp the full rev range is used and I enjoy every single second of it. Sure I'll pay for this staying on top of corrosion due to salty roads and having to replace suspension parts to keep it as it should be, but I'll take that on the chin. Its a 911 Carrera, not a Ferrari 250 GTO.
conanius said:
Brakes.
I'm hoping to do some track days in my 996.1 C2 Coupe next year.
Background - I used to have an early S2000 that I thoroughly enjoyed taking to trackdays. Ironically the best brake setup I found for it was stock Honda discs & pads, Motul RBF600 fluid and a master cylinder brace (which massively improved the feel... at least in my head). I tried other combos including the 'halo' DBA4000 Discs with DS2500 pads, which I found to be absolutely awful.
I currently have, err, I think ECP pagid discs and pads on there, with whatever fluid was done at the service 18 months ago.
Based on what I've read, it seems like everyone says the stock setup is fine, and just do a fluid change for something a bit better (What do people recommend these days?) and potentially consider different pads and a GT3 master cylinder to improve the pedal feel.
So step one seems like I should do a fluid change before I do my first day, and put something good in (see above me asking for suggestions folks).
In case these ECP Pagid pads are going to be awful, what pads are people using? I hated the DS2500s as honestly they didn't seem any better than the Honda items on track, and on the road they were absolutely deadly until you had loads of heat in them. I want something that will be fine day to day if the wife takes the kids out in it for whatever reason.
Thanks in advance
OEM pads would be my recommendation - either Textar or ATE from autodoc. Really good bite and feel. A good compromise I'm hoping to do some track days in my 996.1 C2 Coupe next year.
Background - I used to have an early S2000 that I thoroughly enjoyed taking to trackdays. Ironically the best brake setup I found for it was stock Honda discs & pads, Motul RBF600 fluid and a master cylinder brace (which massively improved the feel... at least in my head). I tried other combos including the 'halo' DBA4000 Discs with DS2500 pads, which I found to be absolutely awful.
I currently have, err, I think ECP pagid discs and pads on there, with whatever fluid was done at the service 18 months ago.
Based on what I've read, it seems like everyone says the stock setup is fine, and just do a fluid change for something a bit better (What do people recommend these days?) and potentially consider different pads and a GT3 master cylinder to improve the pedal feel.
So step one seems like I should do a fluid change before I do my first day, and put something good in (see above me asking for suggestions folks).
In case these ECP Pagid pads are going to be awful, what pads are people using? I hated the DS2500s as honestly they didn't seem any better than the Honda items on track, and on the road they were absolutely deadly until you had loads of heat in them. I want something that will be fine day to day if the wife takes the kids out in it for whatever reason.
Thanks in advance
conanius said:
Brakes.
I'm hoping to do some track days in my 996.1 C2 Coupe next year.
Background - I used to have an early S2000 that I thoroughly enjoyed taking to trackdays. Ironically the best brake setup I found for it was stock Honda discs & pads, Motul RBF600 fluid and a master cylinder brace (which massively improved the feel... at least in my head). I tried other combos including the 'halo' DBA4000 Discs with DS2500 pads, which I found to be absolutely awful.
I currently have, err, I think ECP pagid discs and pads on there, with whatever fluid was done at the service 18 months ago.
Based on what I've read, it seems like everyone says the stock setup is fine, and just do a fluid change for something a bit better (What do people recommend these days?) and potentially consider different pads and a GT3 master cylinder to improve the pedal feel.
So step one seems like I should do a fluid change before I do my first day, and put something good in (see above me asking for suggestions folks).
In case these ECP Pagid pads are going to be awful, what pads are people using? I hated the DS2500s as honestly they didn't seem any better than the Honda items on track, and on the road they were absolutely deadly until you had loads of heat in them. I want something that will be fine day to day if the wife takes the kids out in it for whatever reason.
Thanks in advance
Textar pads (same as wot as how Porsche supply in a Porsche box) and Motul RBF660 is it now? Too cold to go into the garage and look.....I'm hoping to do some track days in my 996.1 C2 Coupe next year.
Background - I used to have an early S2000 that I thoroughly enjoyed taking to trackdays. Ironically the best brake setup I found for it was stock Honda discs & pads, Motul RBF600 fluid and a master cylinder brace (which massively improved the feel... at least in my head). I tried other combos including the 'halo' DBA4000 Discs with DS2500 pads, which I found to be absolutely awful.
I currently have, err, I think ECP pagid discs and pads on there, with whatever fluid was done at the service 18 months ago.
Based on what I've read, it seems like everyone says the stock setup is fine, and just do a fluid change for something a bit better (What do people recommend these days?) and potentially consider different pads and a GT3 master cylinder to improve the pedal feel.
So step one seems like I should do a fluid change before I do my first day, and put something good in (see above me asking for suggestions folks).
In case these ECP Pagid pads are going to be awful, what pads are people using? I hated the DS2500s as honestly they didn't seem any better than the Honda items on track, and on the road they were absolutely deadly until you had loads of heat in them. I want something that will be fine day to day if the wife takes the kids out in it for whatever reason.
Thanks in advance
nebpor said:
conanius said:
Brakes.
I'm hoping to do some track days in my 996.1 C2 Coupe next year.
Background - I used to have an early S2000 that I thoroughly enjoyed taking to trackdays. Ironically the best brake setup I found for it was stock Honda discs & pads, Motul RBF600 fluid and a master cylinder brace (which massively improved the feel... at least in my head). I tried other combos including the 'halo' DBA4000 Discs with DS2500 pads, which I found to be absolutely awful.
I currently have, err, I think ECP pagid discs and pads on there, with whatever fluid was done at the service 18 months ago.
Based on what I've read, it seems like everyone says the stock setup is fine, and just do a fluid change for something a bit better (What do people recommend these days?) and potentially consider different pads and a GT3 master cylinder to improve the pedal feel.
So step one seems like I should do a fluid change before I do my first day, and put something good in (see above me asking for suggestions folks).
In case these ECP Pagid pads are going to be awful, what pads are people using? I hated the DS2500s as honestly they didn't seem any better than the Honda items on track, and on the road they were absolutely deadly until you had loads of heat in them. I want something that will be fine day to day if the wife takes the kids out in it for whatever reason.
Thanks in advance
OEM pads would be my recommendation - either Textar or ATE from autodoc. Really good bite and feel. A good compromise I'm hoping to do some track days in my 996.1 C2 Coupe next year.
Background - I used to have an early S2000 that I thoroughly enjoyed taking to trackdays. Ironically the best brake setup I found for it was stock Honda discs & pads, Motul RBF600 fluid and a master cylinder brace (which massively improved the feel... at least in my head). I tried other combos including the 'halo' DBA4000 Discs with DS2500 pads, which I found to be absolutely awful.
I currently have, err, I think ECP pagid discs and pads on there, with whatever fluid was done at the service 18 months ago.
Based on what I've read, it seems like everyone says the stock setup is fine, and just do a fluid change for something a bit better (What do people recommend these days?) and potentially consider different pads and a GT3 master cylinder to improve the pedal feel.
So step one seems like I should do a fluid change before I do my first day, and put something good in (see above me asking for suggestions folks).
In case these ECP Pagid pads are going to be awful, what pads are people using? I hated the DS2500s as honestly they didn't seem any better than the Honda items on track, and on the road they were absolutely deadly until you had loads of heat in them. I want something that will be fine day to day if the wife takes the kids out in it for whatever reason.
Thanks in advance
New decent brake fluid too is important but should be part of normal maintenance.
I've got Brembo pads on one of mine because I thought they were standard but it seems I got confused. They work fine but road use only and I'm gentle on brakes.
I've got some grumbling grinding pads on another one of mine which I believe are performance friction but not sure. Been on there since I had it and I believe were for track use. A little less bite when cold and produce lots of dust. Seems standard for a racey pad.
EBC Yellow [recent] on my big BMW with ATE discs - seems like a very good combo. Almost feel sticky in use. Not noisy on my BMW but I did get some squealing. Again only road use and I'm gentle on brakes but for a big heavy car it stops well. I believe EBC had a bad reputation years ago but now better hence the recent comment above. I like to give UK businesses a chance so I've bought a set of Yellows for the 996 but never got round to fitting them. There were some shortages just after covid so it took me weeks to get both pairs and that's why I went with the Brembos - pic below.
I think standard brakes can struggle on these cars on track because modern tyres so much better than 25+ years ago when they designed the car. My 996 which saw track use with PO has KW Clubsport and wore r888 tyres too so even more grip. So I think if you're doing bigger sessions on track and have decent tyres you'll need stronger pads. You could always try it first and see how it copes. Plenty of people use these cars standard for little hot laps. But if you're changing anyway and don't mind some noise and dust then why not try a more aggressive pad. My 996 with angry pads drives ok on road which is why I've not rushed to swap them over.
Some of these cars get their disc faces rusted up from lack of use or too much gentle road use so I try to give my brakes a good firm prod when driving round town just to keep them in good condition but no idea if that's even helping. Always makes me wander what other people think if they see me performing an emergency stop for no good reason.
I've got some grumbling grinding pads on another one of mine which I believe are performance friction but not sure. Been on there since I had it and I believe were for track use. A little less bite when cold and produce lots of dust. Seems standard for a racey pad.
EBC Yellow [recent] on my big BMW with ATE discs - seems like a very good combo. Almost feel sticky in use. Not noisy on my BMW but I did get some squealing. Again only road use and I'm gentle on brakes but for a big heavy car it stops well. I believe EBC had a bad reputation years ago but now better hence the recent comment above. I like to give UK businesses a chance so I've bought a set of Yellows for the 996 but never got round to fitting them. There were some shortages just after covid so it took me weeks to get both pairs and that's why I went with the Brembos - pic below.
I think standard brakes can struggle on these cars on track because modern tyres so much better than 25+ years ago when they designed the car. My 996 which saw track use with PO has KW Clubsport and wore r888 tyres too so even more grip. So I think if you're doing bigger sessions on track and have decent tyres you'll need stronger pads. You could always try it first and see how it copes. Plenty of people use these cars standard for little hot laps. But if you're changing anyway and don't mind some noise and dust then why not try a more aggressive pad. My 996 with angry pads drives ok on road which is why I've not rushed to swap them over.
Some of these cars get their disc faces rusted up from lack of use or too much gentle road use so I try to give my brakes a good firm prod when driving round town just to keep them in good condition but no idea if that's even helping. Always makes me wander what other people think if they see me performing an emergency stop for no good reason.
shalmaneser said:
Completely disagree, OEM pads (textar) and pagid disc are fine on road but wilt under track use in my experience.
Maybe the discs were your problem. I had the Sebros (allegedly the same as OE) and Textars, and on track the brakes were as good at the start as the end, and thousands of miles on road with the same set as well.We'll have to completely disagree
with our experiences. Orangecurry said:
shalmaneser said:
Completely disagree, OEM pads (textar) and pagid disc are fine on road but wilt under track use in my experience.
Maybe the discs were your problem. I had the Sebros (allegedly the same as OE) and Textars, and on track the brakes were as good at the start as the end, and thousands of miles on road with the same set as well.We'll have to completely disagree
with our experiences. 
shalmaneser said:
Completely disagree, OEM pads (textar) and pagid disc are fine on road but wilt under track use in my experience. I've used yellowstuff pads on track and they're great, loads of bite when up to temp (which happens quickly). Too noisy and dusty if used daily though for me, plus a bit rubbish when cold.
New decent brake fluid too is important but should be part of normal maintenance.
And that is exactly why I said go OEM - no point in having good track brakes that are rubbish on the road - I spent 10 years doing track days in my DC2 ITR (I know it's a lighter car, but an early 996 isn't that heavy) and have tried virtually everything - good track brakes are typically crap road brakes and vice versa ... my own experience of Porsche-spec pads is that they are great on the road, and ok for the track if you are only doing it now and again and limit your sessions ... I do agree they are nothing like as good as a track pad, but I think it's only worthwhile fitting them if you are doing a lot of track daysNew decent brake fluid too is important but should be part of normal maintenance.
My advice on a 996C2/4 would be to get a set of turbo/4S callipers and up the braking force, as it's quite cheap - the problem I have upgrading my turbo is that GT3 callipers ain't cheap!!
Edited by nebpor on Thursday 1st December 11:10
nebpor said:
shalmaneser said:
Completely disagree, OEM pads (textar) and pagid disc are fine on road but wilt under track use in my experience. I've used yellowstuff pads on track and they're great, loads of bite when up to temp (which happens quickly). Too noisy and dusty if used daily though for me, plus a bit rubbish when cold.
New decent brake fluid too is important but should be part of normal maintenance.
And that is exactly why I said go OEM - no point in having good track brakes that are rubbish on the road - I spent 10 years doing track days in my DC2 ITR (I know it's a lighter car, but an early 996 isn't that heavy) and have tried virtually everything - good track brakes are typically crap road brakes and vice versa ... my own experience of Porsche-spec pads is that they are great on the road, and ok for the track if you are only doing it now and again and limit your sessions ... I do agree they are nothing like as good as a track pad, but I think it's only worthwhile fitting them if you are doing a lot of track daysNew decent brake fluid too is important but should be part of normal maintenance.
My advice on a 996C2/4 would be to get a set of turbo/4S callipers and up the braking force, as it's quite cheap - the problem I have upgrading my turbo is that GT3 callipers ain't cheap!!
Edited by nebpor on Thursday 1st December 11:10
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