what is an 'early' 3.4 996?
Discussion
Fast Bug said:
Lightweight flywheels. Good? Bad? Indifferent? Mines booked in for a new clutch, manifolds, the brake line that goes over the box + whatever else gets thrown at me so it's a good time to see if it's worth doing.
Also manifolds = the cheapy eBay ones? I seem to remember they're as good as any
I would love a lightweight flywheel but when I was doing my clutch and flywheel there was a lot of concern around harmonics and snapped cranks. The flywheel end of the crank is unsupported compared to some engine designs so I held off. But I think ATM has one and is happy?Also manifolds = the cheapy eBay ones? I seem to remember they're as good as any
I've got the ebay manifolds and they seem OK! Would love to see a back to back comparison with the OE ones.
I think with flywheels both sides of the argument are valid. The engine has all worn together and you're disturbing a fundamental part. Or, you've removed weight from an unsupported part of the crank. I've seen the snapped crank in a thread on 911uk, but was it definitely attributed to a lightweight flywheel?
With experience of them in other engines I'd absolutely go for one when I need a new clutch. If it did cause issues there may be underlying causes in my 133k miles engine. A lot of specialists would say it is ready for a rebulid now. Not a criticism, it probably does. Don't Hartech put in an extra bearing when doing a rebuild if you want one?
With regards to the air filter it's unlikely to ever give an increase you could notice, ear dyno may suggest otherwise. It will be interesting to see what they find when it goes on a dyno, hopefully not just a rolling road. Flowbenches are useful tools, but the percentage increase in flow is very rarely seen as that in power. Airflow bouncing off the back of a closed valve tends to mess things up.
With experience of them in other engines I'd absolutely go for one when I need a new clutch. If it did cause issues there may be underlying causes in my 133k miles engine. A lot of specialists would say it is ready for a rebulid now. Not a criticism, it probably does. Don't Hartech put in an extra bearing when doing a rebuild if you want one?
With regards to the air filter it's unlikely to ever give an increase you could notice, ear dyno may suggest otherwise. It will be interesting to see what they find when it goes on a dyno, hopefully not just a rolling road. Flowbenches are useful tools, but the percentage increase in flow is very rarely seen as that in power. Airflow bouncing off the back of a closed valve tends to mess things up.
shalmaneser said:
I would love a lightweight flywheel but when I was doing my clutch and flywheel there was a lot of concern around harmonics and snapped cranks. The flywheel end of the crank is unsupported compared to some engine designs so I held off. But I think ATM has one and is happy?
Yes I'm not up to speed on all the scare mongering around these. I bought my car with one already installed. The blurb also talks about a lightweight clutch too and it is a bit stiffer than the standard clutch in my 986 which is basically brand new and totally standard and feels lovely by comparison. It is almost impossible to stall my 986 but the 996 with LWFW will stall and does stall if you are not paying attention. So yes it is tricky to use the LWFW. If you give it too many revs before letting it up fully then you can get some slip from the clutch and if you give it too many revs after letting it up then it will spin the tyres easily. So if your use case is fun car I can't see why you would not want one - scare mongering aside. My use case is pottering around in city traffic and for this its a pain. But I still manage fine. I am not sure if I notice the pick up is quicker when you accelerate but I do notice the deceleration is more pronounced when you lift off. The more skilled 996 drivers among us should appreciate the way it shifts its weight to front when you lift if you are approaching a bend and want to get some weight over the nose. But you do need to be a bit more careful as it feels snappier going back on to the throttle mid bend. So for me that adds to the fun even if it probably makes me slower overall. julian987R said:
I think you’ve hit the wrong thread….julian987R said:
I remember watching that car on Collecting Cars last year, I was quite tempted at the time 
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2001-porsche-9...
giraffeinbath said:
julian987R said:
I remember watching that car on Collecting Cars last year, I was quite tempted at the time https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2001-porsche-9...
So the results of the engine diagnostics came back a few weeks ago... in the words of the Donald - very not good!
Had a bit of back and forth with the engine builder who's diagnosing the issue, as we were talking through a few options - standard bottom-spec 3.4L rebuild using good quality used pistons, the same with new Mahle pistons and some bolt-on upgrades, or the 3.7L upgrade using ductile iron liners. Then they discovered their liner supplier won't warranty their standard (if there is such a thing) 3.7L upgrade for track work.
The outcome of all that is that it's getting the Capricorn (who supply Hartech, Autofarm, F1 teams etc.) liners and pistons which they'll happily warranty for three years. Just about anything else that can be replaced while in there will be - chains, tensioners, oil pumps, tappets, EPS IMS upgrade, ARP bolts where possible, LWFW & clutch etc... it's a long list and I'll need a few 'overseas allowance' trips away with work to make me feel a bit better about the cost
Some parts are 6-8wk lead time so it's likely to be into March before I make the long trip to collect the old girl. It's going to be a long wait!
Had a bit of back and forth with the engine builder who's diagnosing the issue, as we were talking through a few options - standard bottom-spec 3.4L rebuild using good quality used pistons, the same with new Mahle pistons and some bolt-on upgrades, or the 3.7L upgrade using ductile iron liners. Then they discovered their liner supplier won't warranty their standard (if there is such a thing) 3.7L upgrade for track work.
The outcome of all that is that it's getting the Capricorn (who supply Hartech, Autofarm, F1 teams etc.) liners and pistons which they'll happily warranty for three years. Just about anything else that can be replaced while in there will be - chains, tensioners, oil pumps, tappets, EPS IMS upgrade, ARP bolts where possible, LWFW & clutch etc... it's a long list and I'll need a few 'overseas allowance' trips away with work to make me feel a bit better about the cost
Some parts are 6-8wk lead time so it's likely to be into March before I make the long trip to collect the old girl. It's going to be a long wait!
Edited by WojaWabbit on Friday 23 December 18:18
Edited by WojaWabbit on Friday 23 December 18:20
WojaWabbit said:
So the results of the engine diagnostics came back a few weeks ago... in the words of the Donald - very not good!
Had a bit of back and forth with the engine builder as they discovered their liner supplier won't warranty their standard (if there is such a thing) 3.7 upgrade for track work. The long shot of all that is that it's getting the Capricorn kit (who supply Hartech, Autofarm, F1 teams etc.) which they'll warranty for three years. Just about anything else that can be replaced while in there will be - chains, tensioners, oil pumps, tappets, EPS IMS upgrade, ARP bolts where possible, LWFW & clutch etc... it's a long list and I'll need a few 'overseas allowance' trips away with work to make me feel a bit better about the cost
Some parts are 6-8wk lead time so it's likely to be into March before I make the long trip to collect the old girl. It's going to be a long wait!
What's going on, did I miss this?Had a bit of back and forth with the engine builder as they discovered their liner supplier won't warranty their standard (if there is such a thing) 3.7 upgrade for track work. The long shot of all that is that it's getting the Capricorn kit (who supply Hartech, Autofarm, F1 teams etc.) which they'll warranty for three years. Just about anything else that can be replaced while in there will be - chains, tensioners, oil pumps, tappets, EPS IMS upgrade, ARP bolts where possible, LWFW & clutch etc... it's a long list and I'll need a few 'overseas allowance' trips away with work to make me feel a bit better about the cost
Some parts are 6-8wk lead time so it's likely to be into March before I make the long trip to collect the old girl. It's going to be a long wait!
You had a 3.7 engine and it broke?
You can source something called a Capricorn kit which is the kit which Hartech uses - does this mean the liners they use for their builds?
Standard 3.4 engine didn't last long after purchase. Details on p490 of the thread.
TL;DR - it developed a taping sound after a few laps of the 'ring. That turned out to be the bore scoring you see above. As it needs a full rebuild anyway, I'm going for a 3.7L conversion.
(I've edited the post so it makes a bit more sense )
TL;DR - it developed a taping sound after a few laps of the 'ring. That turned out to be the bore scoring you see above. As it needs a full rebuild anyway, I'm going for a 3.7L conversion.
(I've edited the post so it makes a bit more sense
)Edited by WojaWabbit on Friday 23 December 18:19
WojaWabbit said:
Standard 3.4 engine didn't last long after purchase. Details on p490 of the thread.
TL;DR - it developed a taping sound after a few laps of the 'ring. That turned out to be the bore scoring you see above. As it needs a full rebuild anyway, I'm going for a 3.7L conversion.
(I've edited the post so it makes a bit more sense )
What miles were on it? TL;DR - it developed a taping sound after a few laps of the 'ring. That turned out to be the bore scoring you see above. As it needs a full rebuild anyway, I'm going for a 3.7L conversion.
(I've edited the post so it makes a bit more sense
)Edited by WojaWabbit on Friday 23 December 18:19
gixermark said:
WojaWabbit said:
Standard 3.4 engine didn't last long after purchase. Details on p490 of the thread.
TL;DR - it developed a taping sound after a few laps of the 'ring. That turned out to be the bore scoring you see above. As it needs a full rebuild anyway, I'm going for a 3.7L conversion.
(I've edited the post so it makes a bit more sense )
What miles were on it? TL;DR - it developed a taping sound after a few laps of the 'ring. That turned out to be the bore scoring you see above. As it needs a full rebuild anyway, I'm going for a 3.7L conversion.
(I've edited the post so it makes a bit more sense
)Edited by WojaWabbit on Friday 23 December 18:19
I’ve a ‘99 C4 manual bought with 78k miles & FSH & it ran fine. Mine was immediately given a major service as it was due one (with all fluids changed) & drove fine for about 6 months until it started to develop a tapping noise....my techie said “little end wear” aka gudgeon pins so I bit the bullet & he stripped it down to confirmed this. The camshaft was also identified as being out of tolerance with associated parts also worn including the chain guides. A full rebuild with the attitude “whilst it’s out....” followed so anything that might need replacing in the next few years was
The slight silver lining to my situation was I’d bought a car at the bottom of the price range but it still was a deep intake of breath as the costs mounted but I’d prefer to know I’ve spent the £s (indirectly saving later labour costs as the engine was out already & stripped) & can have full peace of mind for the future - it also has helped me stop looking to change it as I’ve now got so much invested in it (full suspension rebuild now done & I’ve added a “leichtbau” homage interior) that it seems pointless to go & buy another as I’ve pretty much created my perfect 911 for what I can afford!
I’m one of a group of 4 who’ve had 996s & the first who required engine work but the other who needed work (a 3.6 manual) was a dropped valve at 92k miles which in itself is a rare failure according to Hartech.
If anyone is rebuilding their engine I recommend they ask their techie to take full pics as I think it’d be useful when you come to sell it in the future.
The slight silver lining to my situation was I’d bought a car at the bottom of the price range but it still was a deep intake of breath as the costs mounted but I’d prefer to know I’ve spent the £s (indirectly saving later labour costs as the engine was out already & stripped) & can have full peace of mind for the future - it also has helped me stop looking to change it as I’ve now got so much invested in it (full suspension rebuild now done & I’ve added a “leichtbau” homage interior) that it seems pointless to go & buy another as I’ve pretty much created my perfect 911 for what I can afford!
I’m one of a group of 4 who’ve had 996s & the first who required engine work but the other who needed work (a 3.6 manual) was a dropped valve at 92k miles which in itself is a rare failure according to Hartech.
If anyone is rebuilding their engine I recommend they ask their techie to take full pics as I think it’d be useful when you come to sell it in the future.
ATM said:
Gen 2 with Hartech 3.9 conversion showing invoice total was £16,071.46
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14268494
Ad says Sold already https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14268494
A good friend of mine recently bought a Cayman GTS & whilst he tried to justify keeping his Hartech engined manual 996 Targa as his daily, he knew the likely domestic grief would be too much!! He sold his on SOR via a Porsche specialist William Crawford in less than a month which for the time of year/doom mongering in the media was good (& has achieved a good price without the hassle).
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