what is an 'early' 3.4 996?
Discussion
Hi all, I hope this is the right place to ask for some guidance, I’ve been considering an early 996 for some time. As luck would have it an early car has popped up for sale just 3 miles up the road, I have arranged to view early next week.
It’s silver with red leather, Oct 98 reg (appears to be a very early one?) 3.4 manual C2 coupe, with 68k miles. I like the spec as it is MO30 suspension with sports seats, LSD, still has ambers and no aero kit. The current owner has had it for 6 years and in that time covered approx. 7k miles. It has clearly been a cherished 3rd car and speaking to the owner he seems as genuine and upfront as I could hope for, clearly a real enthusiast. It very recently passed an MOT with no advisories and there is nothing horrendous from previous tests.
I appreciate it is a 20 year old 996, so it will not be a purchase without risk, but I am just trying to ensure I buy the right car, accepting it will never be perfect.
My main concern surrounds the engine reliability. The current owner is not aware of any previous major engine work. There is no paperwork for a clutch change, so I assume it is possibly the original considering the lower mileage.
I understand an early car like this will be a dual row IMS, which seems to be the least prone to failure. The early 3.4’s don’t appear to suffer with bore scoring, but I understand can suffer from oval bores and cracking cylinder heads. I appreciate the risk of such failures are very low, but can’t be ignored. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
The car is due a service, which I understand the owner is planning to do, if we can agree a deal I was planning on getting a PPI done at the same time as the owner has the service done. As part of the PPI I was also going to have the bores scoped.
Or what I may do is hold fire on the service, get a PPI and the bores scoped and if I go ahead get Hartech to perform a gold service with a view to putting it on their monthly service plan, as my annual mileage would be less than 3k miles the cost isn’t too bad. Hartech aren’t local (300 mile round trip) but it might help me to relax about the possibility of a £10k plus rebuild.
Any other pointers or advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers.
It’s silver with red leather, Oct 98 reg (appears to be a very early one?) 3.4 manual C2 coupe, with 68k miles. I like the spec as it is MO30 suspension with sports seats, LSD, still has ambers and no aero kit. The current owner has had it for 6 years and in that time covered approx. 7k miles. It has clearly been a cherished 3rd car and speaking to the owner he seems as genuine and upfront as I could hope for, clearly a real enthusiast. It very recently passed an MOT with no advisories and there is nothing horrendous from previous tests.
I appreciate it is a 20 year old 996, so it will not be a purchase without risk, but I am just trying to ensure I buy the right car, accepting it will never be perfect.
My main concern surrounds the engine reliability. The current owner is not aware of any previous major engine work. There is no paperwork for a clutch change, so I assume it is possibly the original considering the lower mileage.
I understand an early car like this will be a dual row IMS, which seems to be the least prone to failure. The early 3.4’s don’t appear to suffer with bore scoring, but I understand can suffer from oval bores and cracking cylinder heads. I appreciate the risk of such failures are very low, but can’t be ignored. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
The car is due a service, which I understand the owner is planning to do, if we can agree a deal I was planning on getting a PPI done at the same time as the owner has the service done. As part of the PPI I was also going to have the bores scoped.
Or what I may do is hold fire on the service, get a PPI and the bores scoped and if I go ahead get Hartech to perform a gold service with a view to putting it on their monthly service plan, as my annual mileage would be less than 3k miles the cost isn’t too bad. Hartech aren’t local (300 mile round trip) but it might help me to relax about the possibility of a £10k plus rebuild.
Any other pointers or advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers.
CB 987 said:
Hi all, I hope this is the right place to ask for some guidance, I’ve been considering an early 996 for some time. As luck would have it an early car has popped up for sale just 3 miles up the road, I have arranged to view early next week.
It’s silver with red leather, Oct 98 reg (appears to be a very early one?) 3.4 manual C2 coupe, with 68k miles. I like the spec as it is MO30 suspension with sports seats, LSD, still has ambers and no aero kit. The current owner has had it for 6 years and in that time covered approx. 7k miles. It has clearly been a cherished 3rd car and speaking to the owner he seems as genuine and upfront as I could hope for, clearly a real enthusiast. It very recently passed an MOT with no advisories and there is nothing horrendous from previous tests.
I appreciate it is a 20 year old 996, so it will not be a purchase without risk, but I am just trying to ensure I buy the right car, accepting it will never be perfect.
My main concern surrounds the engine reliability. The current owner is not aware of any previous major engine work. There is no paperwork for a clutch change, so I assume it is possibly the original considering the lower mileage.
I understand an early car like this will be a dual row IMS, which seems to be the least prone to failure. The early 3.4’s don’t appear to suffer with bore scoring, but I understand can suffer from oval bores and cracking cylinder heads. I appreciate the risk of such failures are very low, but can’t be ignored. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
The car is due a service, which I understand the owner is planning to do, if we can agree a deal I was planning on getting a PPI done at the same time as the owner has the service done. As part of the PPI I was also going to have the bores scoped.
Or what I may do is hold fire on the service, get a PPI and the bores scoped and if I go ahead get Hartech to perform a gold service with a view to putting it on their monthly service plan, as my annual mileage would be less than 3k miles the cost isn’t too bad. Hartech aren’t local (300 mile round trip) but it might help me to relax about the possibility of a £10k plus rebuild.
Any other pointers or advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers.
The Hartech gold plan only covers you for their labour so a rebuild can still cost well over 5000 even with free labour.It’s silver with red leather, Oct 98 reg (appears to be a very early one?) 3.4 manual C2 coupe, with 68k miles. I like the spec as it is MO30 suspension with sports seats, LSD, still has ambers and no aero kit. The current owner has had it for 6 years and in that time covered approx. 7k miles. It has clearly been a cherished 3rd car and speaking to the owner he seems as genuine and upfront as I could hope for, clearly a real enthusiast. It very recently passed an MOT with no advisories and there is nothing horrendous from previous tests.
I appreciate it is a 20 year old 996, so it will not be a purchase without risk, but I am just trying to ensure I buy the right car, accepting it will never be perfect.
My main concern surrounds the engine reliability. The current owner is not aware of any previous major engine work. There is no paperwork for a clutch change, so I assume it is possibly the original considering the lower mileage.
I understand an early car like this will be a dual row IMS, which seems to be the least prone to failure. The early 3.4’s don’t appear to suffer with bore scoring, but I understand can suffer from oval bores and cracking cylinder heads. I appreciate the risk of such failures are very low, but can’t be ignored. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
The car is due a service, which I understand the owner is planning to do, if we can agree a deal I was planning on getting a PPI done at the same time as the owner has the service done. As part of the PPI I was also going to have the bores scoped.
Or what I may do is hold fire on the service, get a PPI and the bores scoped and if I go ahead get Hartech to perform a gold service with a view to putting it on their monthly service plan, as my annual mileage would be less than 3k miles the cost isn’t too bad. Hartech aren’t local (300 mile round trip) but it might help me to relax about the possibility of a £10k plus rebuild.
Any other pointers or advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers.
My clutch is quite nice and light. My mate's is stiff as F and recently started slipping a little. So if it feels stiff it needs changing.
CB 987 said:
Hi all, I hope this is the right place to ask for some guidance, I’ve been considering an early 996 for some time. As luck would have it an early car has popped up for sale just 3 miles up the road, I have arranged to view early next week.
It’s silver with red leather, Oct 98 reg (appears to be a very early one?) 3.4 manual C2 coupe, with 68k miles. I like the spec as it is MO30 suspension with sports seats, LSD, still has ambers and no aero kit. The current owner has had it for 6 years and in that time covered approx. 7k miles. It has clearly been a cherished 3rd car and speaking to the owner he seems as genuine and upfront as I could hope for, clearly a real enthusiast. It very recently passed an MOT with no advisories and there is nothing horrendous from previous tests.
I appreciate it is a 20 year old 996, so it will not be a purchase without risk, but I am just trying to ensure I buy the right car, accepting it will never be perfect.
My main concern surrounds the engine reliability. The current owner is not aware of any previous major engine work. There is no paperwork for a clutch change, so I assume it is possibly the original considering the lower mileage.
I understand an early car like this will be a dual row IMS, which seems to be the least prone to failure. The early 3.4’s don’t appear to suffer with bore scoring, but I understand can suffer from oval bores and cracking cylinder heads. I appreciate the risk of such failures are very low, but can’t be ignored. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
The car is due a service, which I understand the owner is planning to do, if we can agree a deal I was planning on getting a PPI done at the same time as the owner has the service done. As part of the PPI I was also going to have the bores scoped.
Or what I may do is hold fire on the service, get a PPI and the bores scoped and if I go ahead get Hartech to perform a gold service with a view to putting it on their monthly service plan, as my annual mileage would be less than 3k miles the cost isn’t too bad. Hartech aren’t local (300 mile round trip) but it might help me to relax about the possibility of a £10k plus rebuild.
Any other pointers or advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers.
That car has featured here (or on the PovPork thread) recently. It's advertised in several different places at different prices. It’s silver with red leather, Oct 98 reg (appears to be a very early one?) 3.4 manual C2 coupe, with 68k miles. I like the spec as it is MO30 suspension with sports seats, LSD, still has ambers and no aero kit. The current owner has had it for 6 years and in that time covered approx. 7k miles. It has clearly been a cherished 3rd car and speaking to the owner he seems as genuine and upfront as I could hope for, clearly a real enthusiast. It very recently passed an MOT with no advisories and there is nothing horrendous from previous tests.
I appreciate it is a 20 year old 996, so it will not be a purchase without risk, but I am just trying to ensure I buy the right car, accepting it will never be perfect.
My main concern surrounds the engine reliability. The current owner is not aware of any previous major engine work. There is no paperwork for a clutch change, so I assume it is possibly the original considering the lower mileage.
I understand an early car like this will be a dual row IMS, which seems to be the least prone to failure. The early 3.4’s don’t appear to suffer with bore scoring, but I understand can suffer from oval bores and cracking cylinder heads. I appreciate the risk of such failures are very low, but can’t be ignored. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
The car is due a service, which I understand the owner is planning to do, if we can agree a deal I was planning on getting a PPI done at the same time as the owner has the service done. As part of the PPI I was also going to have the bores scoped.
Or what I may do is hold fire on the service, get a PPI and the bores scoped and if I go ahead get Hartech to perform a gold service with a view to putting it on their monthly service plan, as my annual mileage would be less than 3k miles the cost isn’t too bad. Hartech aren’t local (300 mile round trip) but it might help me to relax about the possibility of a £10k plus rebuild.
Any other pointers or advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers.
It's on my saved list so I'm an interested spectator.
Cheers, yes I realise it only covers labour, but does make it a bit more bearable should the worst happen. Thanks for the clutch tip, will see how heavy it feels.
Yes it is the silver one in the Pov Pork thread, I’ve only seen it listed on autotrader, initially at £15,450, it then dropped to £14,999. I would be interested to know where else it’s been advertised.
Cheers!
Yes it is the silver one in the Pov Pork thread, I’ve only seen it listed on autotrader, initially at £15,450, it then dropped to £14,999. I would be interested to know where else it’s been advertised.
Cheers!
No hard and fast on the engine. Mine’s a 2000, is on 170k Miles, still pulls well and has clean bores.
My 1st clutch lasted >100k Miles.
In addition to the usual rads etc, check the pinion bearing in the diff is good - you can tell if it’s on its way out by coasting in 6th at c.60mph, and gently picking up the throttle. If you hear a whine the bearing is on its way. It’s not a cheap job.
My 1st clutch lasted >100k Miles.
In addition to the usual rads etc, check the pinion bearing in the diff is good - you can tell if it’s on its way out by coasting in 6th at c.60mph, and gently picking up the throttle. If you hear a whine the bearing is on its way. It’s not a cheap job.
CB 987 said:
Hi all, I hope this is the right place to ask for some guidance, I’ve been considering an early 996 for some time. As luck would have it an early car has popped up for sale just 3 miles up the road, I have arranged to view early next week.
It’s silver with red leather, Oct 98 reg (appears to be a very early one?) 3.4 manual C2 coupe, with 68k miles. I like the spec as it is MO30 suspension with sports seats, LSD, still has ambers and no aero kit. The current owner has had it for 6 years and in that time covered approx. 7k miles. It has clearly been a cherished 3rd car and speaking to the owner he seems as genuine and upfront as I could hope for, clearly a real enthusiast. It very recently passed an MOT with no advisories and there is nothing horrendous from previous tests.
I appreciate it is a 20 year old 996, so it will not be a purchase without risk, but I am just trying to ensure I buy the right car, accepting it will never be perfect.
My main concern surrounds the engine reliability. The current owner is not aware of any previous major engine work. There is no paperwork for a clutch change, so I assume it is possibly the original considering the lower mileage.
I understand an early car like this will be a dual row IMS, which seems to be the least prone to failure. The early 3.4’s don’t appear to suffer with bore scoring, but I understand can suffer from oval bores and cracking cylinder heads. I appreciate the risk of such failures are very low, but can’t be ignored. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
The car is due a service, which I understand the owner is planning to do, if we can agree a deal I was planning on getting a PPI done at the same time as the owner has the service done. As part of the PPI I was also going to have the bores scoped.
Or what I may do is hold fire on the service, get a PPI and the bores scoped and if I go ahead get Hartech to perform a gold service with a view to putting it on their monthly service plan, as my annual mileage would be less than 3k miles the cost isn’t too bad. Hartech aren’t local (300 mile round trip) but it might help me to relax about the possibility of a £10k plus rebuild.
Any other pointers or advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers.
As with anything, it's hard to judge. I have a 98 C2, bought it slightly on a whim but so far the engine has been utterly faithful with better oil consumption than the 2.7 986 that it replaced, it doesn't use a *drop* of oil between services.It’s silver with red leather, Oct 98 reg (appears to be a very early one?) 3.4 manual C2 coupe, with 68k miles. I like the spec as it is MO30 suspension with sports seats, LSD, still has ambers and no aero kit. The current owner has had it for 6 years and in that time covered approx. 7k miles. It has clearly been a cherished 3rd car and speaking to the owner he seems as genuine and upfront as I could hope for, clearly a real enthusiast. It very recently passed an MOT with no advisories and there is nothing horrendous from previous tests.
I appreciate it is a 20 year old 996, so it will not be a purchase without risk, but I am just trying to ensure I buy the right car, accepting it will never be perfect.
My main concern surrounds the engine reliability. The current owner is not aware of any previous major engine work. There is no paperwork for a clutch change, so I assume it is possibly the original considering the lower mileage.
I understand an early car like this will be a dual row IMS, which seems to be the least prone to failure. The early 3.4’s don’t appear to suffer with bore scoring, but I understand can suffer from oval bores and cracking cylinder heads. I appreciate the risk of such failures are very low, but can’t be ignored. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
The car is due a service, which I understand the owner is planning to do, if we can agree a deal I was planning on getting a PPI done at the same time as the owner has the service done. As part of the PPI I was also going to have the bores scoped.
Or what I may do is hold fire on the service, get a PPI and the bores scoped and if I go ahead get Hartech to perform a gold service with a view to putting it on their monthly service plan, as my annual mileage would be less than 3k miles the cost isn’t too bad. Hartech aren’t local (300 mile round trip) but it might help me to relax about the possibility of a £10k plus rebuild.
Any other pointers or advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers.
Having said that, it'll probably explode tomorrow, but if it does, I've had 18 months out of it and it's been a joy. Buy on condition and feel - if you're unable to determine that, get someone who can determine it for you. History, but not OPC stamps is what I'd look for. Mine had loads of receipts and a box of old bits, the PO got it serviced and maintained by his brother in law who was a Met Police maintenance team mechanic. Suspension creaked like an old bed, so I went through replacing everything but springs and dampers..
If it makes you feel good, buy it. They're awesome cars.
Mine is not for sale!
2 thousand miles of vigorous excersise, Munich to Bilbao just completed have convinced me - it is a great little car. The Ohlins and Cargraphic upgrades certainly help, but it did not miss a beat, or consume anything except petrol. With some room to stretch its legs and thousands of corners to get to grips with it seemed to come alive. My mates in more exotic/powerful machinery were slightly suprised how quickly it could cover ground, and I was too, certainly down to the car rather than me.
CB 987 said:
Hi all, I hope this is the right place to ask for some guidance, I’ve been considering an early 996 for some time. As luck would have it an early car has popped up for sale just 3 miles up the road, I have arranged to view early next week.
It’s silver with red leather, Oct 98 reg (appears to be a very early one?) 3.4 manual C2 coupe, with 68k miles. I like the spec as it is MO30 suspension with sports seats, LSD, still has ambers and no aero kit. The current owner has had it for 6 years and in that time covered approx. 7k miles. It has clearly been a cherished 3rd car and speaking to the owner he seems as genuine and upfront as I could hope for, clearly a real enthusiast. It very recently passed an MOT with no advisories and there is nothing horrendous from previous tests.
I appreciate it is a 20 year old 996, so it will not be a purchase without risk, but I am just trying to ensure I buy the right car, accepting it will never be perfect.
My main concern surrounds the engine reliability. The current owner is not aware of any previous major engine work. There is no paperwork for a clutch change, so I assume it is possibly the original considering the lower mileage.
I understand an early car like this will be a dual row IMS, which seems to be the least prone to failure. The early 3.4’s don’t appear to suffer with bore scoring, but I understand can suffer from oval bores and cracking cylinder heads. I appreciate the risk of such failures are very low, but can’t be ignored. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
The car is due a service, which I understand the owner is planning to do, if we can agree a deal I was planning on getting a PPI done at the same time as the owner has the service done. As part of the PPI I was also going to have the bores scoped.
Or what I may do is hold fire on the service, get a PPI and the bores scoped and if I go ahead get Hartech to perform a gold service with a view to putting it on their monthly service plan, as my annual mileage would be less than 3k miles the cost isn’t too bad. Hartech aren’t local (300 mile round trip) but it might help me to relax about the possibility of a £10k plus rebuild.
Any other pointers or advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers.
All the signs were good on this car. From what you can tell from the advert it looked like a bargain. I’m amazed he dropped the price! Would have thought he could have put it up!It’s silver with red leather, Oct 98 reg (appears to be a very early one?) 3.4 manual C2 coupe, with 68k miles. I like the spec as it is MO30 suspension with sports seats, LSD, still has ambers and no aero kit. The current owner has had it for 6 years and in that time covered approx. 7k miles. It has clearly been a cherished 3rd car and speaking to the owner he seems as genuine and upfront as I could hope for, clearly a real enthusiast. It very recently passed an MOT with no advisories and there is nothing horrendous from previous tests.
I appreciate it is a 20 year old 996, so it will not be a purchase without risk, but I am just trying to ensure I buy the right car, accepting it will never be perfect.
My main concern surrounds the engine reliability. The current owner is not aware of any previous major engine work. There is no paperwork for a clutch change, so I assume it is possibly the original considering the lower mileage.
I understand an early car like this will be a dual row IMS, which seems to be the least prone to failure. The early 3.4’s don’t appear to suffer with bore scoring, but I understand can suffer from oval bores and cracking cylinder heads. I appreciate the risk of such failures are very low, but can’t be ignored. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
The car is due a service, which I understand the owner is planning to do, if we can agree a deal I was planning on getting a PPI done at the same time as the owner has the service done. As part of the PPI I was also going to have the bores scoped.
Or what I may do is hold fire on the service, get a PPI and the bores scoped and if I go ahead get Hartech to perform a gold service with a view to putting it on their monthly service plan, as my annual mileage would be less than 3k miles the cost isn’t too bad. Hartech aren’t local (300 mile round trip) but it might help me to relax about the possibility of a £10k plus rebuild.
Any other pointers or advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers.
Anyway AT now showing as no longer available. Did you buy it?
griffter said:
All the signs were good on this car. From what you can tell from the advert it looked like a bargain. I’m amazed he dropped the price! Would have thought he could have put it up!
Anyway AT now showing as no longer available. Did you buy it?
I am not due to view until after the bank holiday, I can only assume the advert has expired? Anyway AT now showing as no longer available. Did you buy it?
Apparently he had a lot of interest, mostly lengthy e-mail enquiries with lots of questions, which he answered and never heard from again! I was one of the very few who picked the phone up. I thought it would have sold very quickly, no one else has viewed it which surprised me.
Agreed, all the signs are good, I just need to be as sure as I can be that there aren't any hidden bills lurking.
I have been wondering about whether I should hold out for a higher miler with a chunk of recent expenditure. Will have a better idea once I have gone through the service history.
Cheers.
[quote=CB 987
Agreed, all the signs are good, I just need to be as sure as I can be that there aren't any hidden bills lurking
[/quote]
There will be bills lurking, I'll be 99% certain of that on a nearly 20 year old car. It's just how much needs spending on what and when and how much you want to/can afford to spend. I'd budget at least £3k in the first year plus any upgrades...
Agreed, all the signs are good, I just need to be as sure as I can be that there aren't any hidden bills lurking
[/quote]
There will be bills lurking, I'll be 99% certain of that on a nearly 20 year old car. It's just how much needs spending on what and when and how much you want to/can afford to spend. I'd budget at least £3k in the first year plus any upgrades...
Fastlane said:
CB 987 said:
Agreed, all the signs are good, I just need to be as sure as I can be that there aren't any hidden bills lurking
There will be bills lurking, I'll be 99% certain of that on a nearly 20 year old car. It's just how much needs spending on what and when and how much you want to/can afford to spend. I'd budget at least £3k in the first year plus any upgrades...Running a 20 year old car at any mileage is a big gamble, things will break and wear out almost constantly.....maybe even catastrophically. The nice thing about a 996 is at least it should hold its value so would be worth fixing....
I wouldn't bother with a bore scope, 3.4s don't prematurely score unlike 3.6.
Don't even worry about the IMS bearing, its a non issue on a 3.4 IMO
Get the IMS bearing inspected and outer seal removed when / if you get a clutch. Mine is just on its third clutch at 130k, I checked the bearing and it was buttery smooth.
Check for rust! Sill ends, jacking points can be a tell tale. Surface corrosion no worries but if they are abut crumbly then you need to get the rear arch spats off and have a look in the sill ends.
Edited by was8v on Thursday 24th May 11:32
@CB987
Fingers crossed it checks out. But any Car / Porsche / 911 in this age bracket has the ability to hide a few forthcoming expenses that even a detailed inspection may not discover.
That said, I think that over the last few years the number of owners taking a proactive approach to maintenance rather than a reactive one has certainly increased. So in that respect the chances of finding / buying `a good un` have probably also increased.
Enjoy the search, but also expect that whichever car you buy will need some expenditure to get it - and keep it on the button. I have spent rather more on mine than I thought I would since purchase in 2015, but much of that has been elective. Not much has been due to component failure, but there have been items like the alternator or even the window mechanisms that have needed replacing or sorting which I was not really expecting. The list of unexpected items is quite substantial - including @£300 to have the original windscreen properly reinstalled as it was creaky, which apparently is common.
Fingers crossed it checks out. But any Car / Porsche / 911 in this age bracket has the ability to hide a few forthcoming expenses that even a detailed inspection may not discover.
That said, I think that over the last few years the number of owners taking a proactive approach to maintenance rather than a reactive one has certainly increased. So in that respect the chances of finding / buying `a good un` have probably also increased.
Enjoy the search, but also expect that whichever car you buy will need some expenditure to get it - and keep it on the button. I have spent rather more on mine than I thought I would since purchase in 2015, but much of that has been elective. Not much has been due to component failure, but there have been items like the alternator or even the window mechanisms that have needed replacing or sorting which I was not really expecting. The list of unexpected items is quite substantial - including @£300 to have the original windscreen properly reinstalled as it was creaky, which apparently is common.
CB 987 said:
...
Any other pointers or advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers.
As you say, you've "been considering an early 996 for some time.", so you've emotionally decided it's something you need in your life. Any other pointers or advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers.
If it meets 90% of your expectations; get it bought.
If you don't buy it, that'll be a further period without one. Once you have a 911 in your life, you'll wonder why you deliberated for so long.
I did deliberate and I do wonder what took me so long; but I love having one at last.
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