what is an 'early' 3.4 996?

[Smollet]

MarkW34 said:

As you say, you've "been considering an early 996 for some time.", so you've emotionally decided it's something you need in your life.

If it meets 90% of your expectations; get it bought.

If you don't buy it, that'll be a further period without one. Once you have a 911 in your life, you'll wonder why you deliberated for so long.

I did deliberate and I do wonder what took me so long; but I love having one at last.

Absolutely spot on. All my mates breathed a sigh of relief when I eventually bought mine. I’d been boring them witless for over six months with my shall I shan’t I, which one, how much should I spend ruminations .

[ATM]

Smollet said:

MarkW34 said:

As you say, you've "been considering an early 996 for some time.", so you've emotionally decided it's something you need in your life.

If it meets 90% of your expectations; get it bought.

If you don't buy it, that'll be a further period without one. Once you have a 911 in your life, you'll wonder why you deliberated for so long.

I did deliberate and I do wonder what took me so long; but I love having one at last.

Absolutely spot on. All my mates breathed a sigh of relief when I eventually bought mine. I’d been boring them witless for over six months with my shall I shan’t I, which one, how much should I spend ruminations .

I went on so much about mine once I had it that my mate bought one too. Mine has cost me a fortune. I still love it.

[EGTE]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Okay, gotcha ;-)

[ATM]

ATM said:

Smollet said:

MarkW34 said:

As you say, you've "been considering an early 996 for some time.", so you've emotionally decided it's something you need in your life.

If it meets 90% of your expectations; get it bought.

If you don't buy it, that'll be a further period without one. Once you have a 911 in your life, you'll wonder why you deliberated for so long.

I did deliberate and I do wonder what took me so long; but I love having one at last.

Absolutely spot on. All my mates breathed a sigh of relief when I eventually bought mine. I’d been boring them witless for over six months with my shall I shan’t I, which one, how much should I spend ruminations .

I went on so much about mine once I had it that my mate bought one too. Mine has cost me a fortune. I still love it.

Just to carry on gushing - for the people reading who have never driven one - the feedback through the steering wheel and your bum is immense. Initial turn in feels a little light or unwilling but a slight lift of the throttle and the front tightens. You find you can adjust the rotation with slight adjustments of the throttle and this is all at sane speeds. If you go even quicker it's more of the same but the point is you can enjoy the feel of the car at sensible speeds. Yes if you want to go quick you can go quick too. If you turn the wheel quick enough it will throw you out of the seat - even in the wet. My car isn't standard so I don't know how much different mine is but the tyres on mine are 5 or 6 year old Michelin with good tread so nothing spectacular but have been sat around in someone's garage for years and years without being used. The feeling of weight shifting around at the back is always there. So you point it at a bend and the adjust to kind of feel for the back to get into the right angle to point the car where you want to go. Then you can start to apply throttle and it will maintain the angle. I enjoy setting up this angle early and then trying to continue without an adjustment mid bend. Now please understand i am a very very average driver at best. But I enjoy driiving this car more than any I have ever driven. Maybe I talk a good story or maybe it is that good. Buy one and decide for yourself.

[ferrisbueller]

Hard to put that in to a context without a datum.

Compared to an Elise, M3, NSX etc etc?

[EGTE]

To add to ATM and cmoose, I recently test-drove a couple of fairly recent-version Lotus Evoras.

I expected the world-renowned Lotus steering feel to far surpass the 996's due to contemporary reviews raving about that, but it absolutely did not, in either car. That says a lot about the 996.

[ferrisbueller]

Well, can tell you for a fact the NSX pummels the 996. But it's 5x the price now so not really relevant anymore.

Driven Cayman S and NSX back to back at length and the result was the same. However, per above and musings elsewhere it's now NSX vs GT3 purely on price.

I've a friend who has owned 996 and 987 and he backs 987 all the way. This in part has added to my in decision.

I've driven 3.4 C4 and I didn't come away overly excited. Ditto 986 S. However, who is if say whether I drove good ones or not.

The Cayman I drove was a demo and the NSX was my own so at that point in time, several moons ago, that was a very level playing field, at the start of proceedings at least.

Drove Elise and 996 back to back. I love the intimacy and sensational stimulus of the Elise but it was pretty compromised as a daily and a 'yota donk'd 111R is still nudging £20,000.

Difficult to form a matrix of references to base judgements on and you really need to own things to appreciate them fully. I've never owned a Porsche. Was going to buy a GT3 but change of plans mean a potential interim toe dabbling.

[ATM]

ferrisbueller said:

Hard to put that in to a context without a datum.

Compared to an Elise, M3, NSX etc etc?

My other Porsche is a 981 and this has virtually no steering feel by comparison. In the 981 you kind of turn and hope. It always gets you round the bend but you don't feel like you accomplished anything. In the 996 you can feel the effects of adjustments you have made - either intentionally or by accident - and this makes you feel part of the package rather than a passenger.

I've also had a 986 but this was about 13 or 14 years ago. I've not driven one recently. I also had a 997 shortly after their launch. It was a great machine but I don't remember feeling the fluidity that I do in the 996.

Maybe i need to try some more Porsches now and see how they feel. But I can't imagine anything being better than the 996, but different maybe which is not necessarily a bad thing.

[ferrisbueller]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The NSX is better. But then, IMO, it's better than a 348/355 and, if you ask me on certain days, 360, too.

It's not a competitor at current prices.

[ferrisbueller]

ATM said:

ferrisbueller said:

Hard to put that in to a context without a datum.

Compared to an Elise, M3, NSX etc etc?

My other Porsche is a 981 and this has virtually no steering feel by comparison. In the 981 you kind of turn and hope. It always gets you round the bend but you don't feel like you accomplished anything. In the 996 you can feel the effects of adjustments you have made - either intentionally or by accident - and this makes you feel part of the package rather than a passenger.

I've also had a 986 but this was about 13 or 14 years ago. I've not driven one recently. I also had a 997 shortly after their launch. It was a great machine but I don't remember feeling the fluidity that I do in the 996.

Maybe i need to try some more Porsches now and see how they feel. But I can't imagine anything being better than the 996, but different maybe which is not necessarily a bad thing.

I've not driven a 986 for a long time, or a 996 for even longer.

Part of the issue really. Taking a potentially expensive punt on a relatively unknown quantity is never easy.

[EGTE]

One thing 996 is not, is expensive. Even more so with the 986.

The internet horror-stories are over-done. Even if the worst happened, the total cost would be way less than anything else that's as good.

[ferrisbueller]

EGTE said:

One thing 996 is not, is expensive. Even more so with the 986.

The internet horror-stories are over-done. Even if the worst happened, the total cost would be way less than anything else that's as good.

We're talking not insignificant amounts of money here. I'm some way of throwing chunks of £5k about willy-nilly.

[ferrisbueller]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I've spent time in a Cayman on 17s but not driving. Said car ended up being punted to WBAC such was its list of expensive maladies and the owner's frustration.

I've driven many hundreds of cars and owned a fair stack, including quite a few discussed around the place.

Comparing a 996 to an NSX now is somewhat pointless because of the delta in entry cost (why is that?!) but in absolute terms the Porsche enters the ring with its heritage and swagger and the ref. stops the fight before the end of the first. It's an irrelevant debate on the basis of purchase cost. That aside, it's a mauling. Pretty sure the NSX would be cheaper to run and the cost of ownership would be negative based on their increase in values. It's just a inconvenient question of capital.

[ferrisbueller]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I've not spent enough time driving GT3s to make a full comparison, but I liked what I experienced (It was a 996.2 FWIW) and it felt a very different animal to a C2/4. Time in the passenger seats gives some feel but its clearly not the same (but would extend the list out to 996.1 GT3, too. And a distant memory of 993 RS).

It is a fact of my reality that taste alters with budget. My taste at 5k is different to that at 15k. And very different from that at 50k+. Ironically choices at that level are more easily made I think.

I'm looking at 986/7 and 996 because that's what I want to spend. There's quite a bit of choice at that point. The value aspect then becomes subjective again.

[ferrisbueller]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I can't actually make sense of the start of your response tbh. No, but yes?

The 360 has flaws, for sure, but I wouldn't offset the slightly imperfect throttle pedal positioning of a 360 against the 8,700 rpm V8 masterpiece sat behind the cabin, for example.

I assume in your comparison you're factoring in the quick and easy adjustment of a 360 chassis, including Challenge Stradale geo., to your liking? Or is it only the Boxster that can be tuned?

[ferrisbueller]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

On the one hand you're telling me a 986 is better than a 360. Then I should look at something else, without saying what.

As I was saying, it's the hard to establish value quotient. Is a 996 GT3 better than a 996 C2? I'm going to go for a yes here (acknowledging that the 986 slays all comers but parking that for a second). Is a 996 GT3 worth 5 times as much as a C2? Very different debate. As I said affordability enters the equation and the comparisons twist. What you're saying is that if you could afford a £100k car, you'd still drive a £5k one. That is a significant statement.

Anything interesting tends to have a cost. I'm reading on here about owners of 996s having spend partially, if not wholly, offset by increase in value. That gets my attention, for sure. Having a net running cost of £300 or more a month on a 986 is something I'm not sure I'm going to rationalise. There's some pretty significant scope creep when numbers like that start appearing.

In a nutshell, these are reasons for indecision.

[ferrisbueller]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'm merely trying to rationalise what I'm reading as there are some big statements in there.

FWIW, I don't agree. In particular your engine assessment is, IMO, majorly off. I cannot think of one level on which the Porsche engine is better. 3.6 GT3 lump is a more interesting comparitor but still a bit short.

[ferrisbueller]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think I can live with "subjective" but "objective" and you've strayed off piste. I'm thinking I'm concerned for the health of the 360 you tried. I made a point of the reference to the engine as being the element of your assessment which was farthest from reality. When you say "subjective" it's just opinion and differences within that are expected and considered on that basis. Objective and that's not up for debate. That's OK, to an extent, as long as you're right. Here, you're wrong.

So what? Well, you're talking about a key part of the car on a number of levels and we're making cross-sectional comparisons of various types.

If your adulation could be turned in to something empirical and validated I would go and buy a car tomorrow. As it is, you make subjective statements and frame them as objective ones and objective ones which are way off base, which then leaves me confused as to what is dependable and what isn't.

I look at things with an open mind and as rationally as possible in most cases, regardless of badge loyalties (see NSX), with a view to making an informed choice.

I'll skip the financial bit as recently a high capital outlay leaves you in a place where owning such cars pays you to do so.

[gixermark]

Why has this thread got into a 6 figure pissing context?

Great thread, but let’s keep to the early 996 ‘sweet’ ? Spot.......

[ferrisbueller]

gixermark said:

Why has this thread got into a 6 figure pissing context?

Great thread, but let’s keep to the early 996 ‘sweet’ ? Spot.......

I'm pretty sure it hasn't? It's a debate about comparisons and trying to understand the relative merits of the 996 vs 986 and whatever else. I don't think I'm alone it trying to find a route through this maze.