what is an 'early' 3.4 996?
Discussion
rival38 said:
@hyphen: For now it certainly feels, sounds and drives in a nicely sorted way, but it has lots of bits and pieces which could fail so one never knows. I am hoping for some regular servicing only respite though, we shall see.
But just like any car of this age there are known unknowns and unknown unknowns! The prior owner sold it to me because the unknowns had become unacceptable to him / his Mrs. He had some chunky unexpected bills and pulled the plug. Some but not all of his expenses in the last year were, new AOS, new coolant expansion tank - and very expensively ( from an OPC) a new ignition barrell, 2 new keys and an alarm re programme. Luckily for me he also fitted a CarGraphic exhaust.
And there is always going to be the elective item or two, I had a creaky original windscreen cured with a new fitting kit from Porsche recently, not vital, but for a few hundred well worth it. I suspect my gearbox mount is rather past its best, and although the gesrshift is fine, a new 997 selector becons. I would also like to upgrade the original headers, but will let them soldier on for now. Some of the items which the perfectionist will want to refresh are damned expensive, things like door seals can essily cost alarming amounts, mine are ok but they might start whistling and need changing one day. But I do think that without letting perfectionism rear its ugly head, once ‘sorted’ running costs can be capped at servicing - untill something needs attention because it no longer works. In reality sorted in the mechanical sense means that the engine / cooling and associated ancilliarirs are known as far as is possible to be in good health, and that the brakes and suspension components are also in good fettle and set up properly.
The list of things you just mentioned just a little bit insane imho, and pure-over complexity. 2 new keys and alarm programme itself is totally redundant for that age for a german car. I know its common, cuz my old boxster's ignition was starting to give bad signs before I sold it. But just like any car of this age there are known unknowns and unknown unknowns! The prior owner sold it to me because the unknowns had become unacceptable to him / his Mrs. He had some chunky unexpected bills and pulled the plug. Some but not all of his expenses in the last year were, new AOS, new coolant expansion tank - and very expensively ( from an OPC) a new ignition barrell, 2 new keys and an alarm re programme. Luckily for me he also fitted a CarGraphic exhaust.
And there is always going to be the elective item or two, I had a creaky original windscreen cured with a new fitting kit from Porsche recently, not vital, but for a few hundred well worth it. I suspect my gearbox mount is rather past its best, and although the gesrshift is fine, a new 997 selector becons. I would also like to upgrade the original headers, but will let them soldier on for now. Some of the items which the perfectionist will want to refresh are damned expensive, things like door seals can essily cost alarming amounts, mine are ok but they might start whistling and need changing one day. But I do think that without letting perfectionism rear its ugly head, once ‘sorted’ running costs can be capped at servicing - untill something needs attention because it no longer works. In reality sorted in the mechanical sense means that the engine / cooling and associated ancilliarirs are known as far as is possible to be in good health, and that the brakes and suspension components are also in good fettle and set up properly.
Do not kill me guys but I would wait a bit more to see if they go near 5k, then I might buy 2x just incase (what a fantasy)
I mean the part/fixing prices and things will fail just adds up so much in a few years, you might buy a used 991.1 instead?
slightly OT but since the start of June I have been trying to use my 2000 C4 coupe as a daily & it has been a joy to nip to work in, so small & responsive.
This morning for various reasons I had to use the family car (a new Volvo XC60 auto) & 2 thing really stood out for me after a near month on 996 driving.
1) New cars are so comfortable & quite, car refinement really has moved on in the 18 years since my 996 was made.
2) The lack of driver input required to get me to work was frankly scary, even when I got there, you just walk away from it!
This morning for various reasons I had to use the family car (a new Volvo XC60 auto) & 2 thing really stood out for me after a near month on 996 driving.
1) New cars are so comfortable & quite, car refinement really has moved on in the 18 years since my 996 was made.
2) The lack of driver input required to get me to work was frankly scary, even when I got there, you just walk away from it!
ferrisbueller said:
Bit of both. Got too much on to be super proactive but will look at anything that comes up with potential if logistics permit. If things had fallen a little differently I'd have gone after the threadist's black C2 Friend's Green snapped up - I'd done some homework but it was too far away for me to be quick to it. I'm patient and can already see dealers actively pursuing the same cars I'd be interested in e.g. that one and I'm not going to pay them a £3k premium. Have spoken to a few people and have some with an ear to the ground already. Obviously wrong time of year to bag a bargain Boxster but keeping an eye out there, too, though I think I'd rather the 911.
In the meantime it's good to get info from actual owners and see what people have done with their cars, too. I have an idea of how mine would evolve if I found one.
potential car coming to the market: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=128592In the meantime it's good to get info from actual owners and see what people have done with their cars, too. I have an idea of how mine would evolve if I found one.
This is a potential view of ownership costs - note that I've removed a lot of stuff that I have chosen to do, as it was elective, leaving only the needed works:
I've spent almost double this, as amongst other things I've switched to Ohlins R/T, had the car fully repainted and replaced the roof - but another owner may well have chosen not to do this.
I've spent almost double this, as amongst other things I've switched to Ohlins R/T, had the car fully repainted and replaced the roof - but another owner may well have chosen not to do this.
Ouch.
I have had my 996 3.4 for 5 years and taken it from 110k to 135k miles year round use.
I bought it with clunky suspension and few other bits that I knew about.
In 5 years I have:
ALL new suspension arms, forked, coffin, inner outer track rods, dog bones top mounts
6k services, oil/filters/plugs etc, yearly MOT
coilpacks
MAF
wheel bearing
window regulators
air con compressor + long pipe etc
rads + fan resistors
Clutch, slave, DMS flywheel and updated 997 clutch lever
AOS and RMS
both exhausts
Couple of sets of kumho tyres
engine + gearbox mounts
battery
steering rack hard lines
All exposed steel brake pipes replaced with kunifer + new flexis
discs and textar pads + handbrake shoes
rust removal and treat/ protect
Only "optional" items are a used 3 spoke wheel + a low miles 997 shifter (the old one was somewhat sloppy)
Everything except VED, insurance and fuel comes to £6000 mostly in parts (I did all the work myself except alignment and MOTs) and I spent a lot of time sourcing OE made parts at low cost.
Any 996 over 100k miles without a list like that will need it over the next few years, most of it is age and mileage related.
I've spent nowhere near £20k in total, but if I had just handed it over to an indy to do all this work I rather suspect I would have.
I have had my 996 3.4 for 5 years and taken it from 110k to 135k miles year round use.
I bought it with clunky suspension and few other bits that I knew about.
In 5 years I have:
ALL new suspension arms, forked, coffin, inner outer track rods, dog bones top mounts
6k services, oil/filters/plugs etc, yearly MOT
coilpacks
MAF
wheel bearing
window regulators
air con compressor + long pipe etc
rads + fan resistors
Clutch, slave, DMS flywheel and updated 997 clutch lever
AOS and RMS
both exhausts
Couple of sets of kumho tyres
engine + gearbox mounts
battery
steering rack hard lines
All exposed steel brake pipes replaced with kunifer + new flexis
discs and textar pads + handbrake shoes
rust removal and treat/ protect
Only "optional" items are a used 3 spoke wheel + a low miles 997 shifter (the old one was somewhat sloppy)
Everything except VED, insurance and fuel comes to £6000 mostly in parts (I did all the work myself except alignment and MOTs) and I spent a lot of time sourcing OE made parts at low cost.
Any 996 over 100k miles without a list like that will need it over the next few years, most of it is age and mileage related.
I've spent nowhere near £20k in total, but if I had just handed it over to an indy to do all this work I rather suspect I would have.
Edited by was8v on Wednesday 27th June 10:41
Edited by was8v on Wednesday 27th June 10:42
was8v said:
Ouch.
I have had my 996 3.4 for 5 years and taken it from 110k to 135k miles year round use.
I bought it with clunky suspension and few other bits that I knew about.
In 5 years I have:
ALL new suspension arms, forked, coffin, inner outer track rods, dog bones top mounts
6k services, oil/filters/plugs etc, yearly MOT
coilpacks
MAF
wheel bearing
window regulators
air con compressor + long pipe etc
rads + fan resistors
Clutch, slave, DMS flywheel and updated 997 clutch lever
AOS and RMS
both exhausts
Couple of sets of kumho tyres
engine + gearbox mounts
battery
steering rack hard lines
All exposed steel brake pipes replaced with kunifer + new flexis
discs and textar pads + handbrake shoes
rust removal and treat/ protect
Only "optional" items are a used 3 spoke wheel + a low miles 997 shifter (the old one was somewhat sloppy)
Everything except VED, insurance and fuel comes to £6000 mostly in parts (I did all the work myself except alignment and MOTs) and I spent a lot of time sourcing OE made parts at low cost.
Any 996 over 100k miles without a list like that will need it over the next few years, most of it is age and mileage related.
I've spent nowhere near £20k in total, but if I had just handed it over to an indy to do all this work I rather suspect I would have.
That sounds right to me. I've had most of the same issues, plus some extra ones (gearbox/diff, fuel pump, handbrake, manifolds, heater matrix, water pump, power steering lines). And I don't have the ability to do it myself, so have had to pay an Indy.I have had my 996 3.4 for 5 years and taken it from 110k to 135k miles year round use.
I bought it with clunky suspension and few other bits that I knew about.
In 5 years I have:
ALL new suspension arms, forked, coffin, inner outer track rods, dog bones top mounts
6k services, oil/filters/plugs etc, yearly MOT
coilpacks
MAF
wheel bearing
window regulators
air con compressor + long pipe etc
rads + fan resistors
Clutch, slave, DMS flywheel and updated 997 clutch lever
AOS and RMS
both exhausts
Couple of sets of kumho tyres
engine + gearbox mounts
battery
steering rack hard lines
All exposed steel brake pipes replaced with kunifer + new flexis
discs and textar pads + handbrake shoes
rust removal and treat/ protect
Only "optional" items are a used 3 spoke wheel + a low miles 997 shifter (the old one was somewhat sloppy)
Everything except VED, insurance and fuel comes to £6000 mostly in parts (I did all the work myself except alignment and MOTs) and I spent a lot of time sourcing OE made parts at low cost.
Any 996 over 100k miles without a list like that will need it over the next few years, most of it is age and mileage related.
I've spent nowhere near £20k in total, but if I had just handed it over to an indy to do all this work I rather suspect I would have.
Edited by Chris Stott on Wednesday 27th June 11:12
My hat is off to you `was8v`
Top spanner skills, which I can only dream of. That is one serious list of jobs to do d-i-y. I imagine if you have access to a lift it would help a bit, but even so....
I took about a day to merely research, then complete removal and replacement of my door cards to fix rattles !
Top spanner skills, which I can only dream of. That is one serious list of jobs to do d-i-y. I imagine if you have access to a lift it would help a bit, but even so....
I took about a day to merely research, then complete removal and replacement of my door cards to fix rattles !
Dammit said:
This is a potential view of ownership costs - note that I've removed a lot of stuff that I have chosen to do, as it was elective, leaving only the needed works:
I've spent almost double this, as amongst other things I've switched to Ohlins R/T, had the car fully repainted and replaced the roof - but another owner may well have chosen not to do this.
Are you sure they did the service properly in 2018 I've spent almost double this, as amongst other things I've switched to Ohlins R/T, had the car fully repainted and replaced the roof - but another owner may well have chosen not to do this.
Thanks to everyone, very helpful for someone who is umming and aahing over joining the club.
rival38 said:
My hat is off to you `was8v`
Top spanner skills, which I can only dream of. That is one serious list of jobs to do d-i-y. I imagine if you have access to a lift it would help a bit, but even so....
I took about a day to merely research, then complete removal and replacement of my door cards to fix rattles !
Ha thanks, none of it is very "hard" - very few stuck bolts etc. Its a case of having the right tools, there is loads of help on 911uk and US forums.Top spanner skills, which I can only dream of. That is one serious list of jobs to do d-i-y. I imagine if you have access to a lift it would help a bit, but even so....
I took about a day to merely research, then complete removal and replacement of my door cards to fix rattles !
The drip drip drip of things wearing out is annoying, like any old car. If I knew I would replace that lot, I would have booked a month off work when I bought the car and done it all in one go and enjoyed it. But its part of the fun I suppose!
I've not had to do any real engine work, just coils, RMS, AOS and some chain tensioner seals. I do send oil for analysis to keep an eye on evidence of wear.
Now I have a car that almost drives like new, but maybe needs some love to the paintwork.
One more question guys, how specialised is the work on a 911?
As wondering if for stuff like suspension and brakes, does it require indie knowledge? As assuming labour rates, coz Porsche, will be way above a normal garage.
Would it be a substantial savings if you got work general work done at a good local garage, or even a vag indie who I am guessing is cheaper?
How much are porsche indie hourly rates?
As wondering if for stuff like suspension and brakes, does it require indie knowledge? As assuming labour rates, coz Porsche, will be way above a normal garage.
Would it be a substantial savings if you got work general work done at a good local garage, or even a vag indie who I am guessing is cheaper?
How much are porsche indie hourly rates?
Just to add most of this stuff is a "one off cost" and should last another 100k / 15 years. If I rebuilt the engine the car would be as new.
But will be applicable to any 15+ year old car really, have your eyes open, but at the same time it doesn't have to be eye watering if you have a socket set and enthusiasm.
I'm convinced all manufacturers design every major component to last 15 years / 150k miles as cost/benefit exercise.
But will be applicable to any 15+ year old car really, have your eyes open, but at the same time it doesn't have to be eye watering if you have a socket set and enthusiasm.
I'm convinced all manufacturers design every major component to last 15 years / 150k miles as cost/benefit exercise.
hyphen said:
One more question guys, how specialised is the work on a 911?
As wondering if for stuff like suspension and brakes, does it require indie knowledge? As assuming labour rates, coz Porsche, will be way above a normal garage.
Would it be a substantial savings if you got work general work done at a good local garage, or even a vag indie who I am guessing is cheaper?
How much are porsche indie hourly rates?
If I can do it on my driveway any decent mechanic can do it.As wondering if for stuff like suspension and brakes, does it require indie knowledge? As assuming labour rates, coz Porsche, will be way above a normal garage.
Would it be a substantial savings if you got work general work done at a good local garage, or even a vag indie who I am guessing is cheaper?
How much are porsche indie hourly rates?
Sometimes I spend a long time researching jobs, that are particular to a 996 e.g. engine faults or the best way to get the gearbox off. A mechanic won't do that and just dive in, whereas an indy would already just know the quickest way to do it.
hyphen said:
One more question guys, how specialised is the work on a 911?
As wondering if for stuff like suspension and brakes, does it require indie knowledge? As assuming labour rates, coz Porsche, will be way above a normal garage.
Would it be a substantial savings if you got work general work done at a good local garage, or even a vag indie who I am guessing is cheaper?
How much are porsche indie hourly rates?
your lucky if my guy is £10 an hour more than basic indy garage, so much so that I used to shove my Mrs 12 year old Saab Convertible to him as I trust him not to try and rip me off.As wondering if for stuff like suspension and brakes, does it require indie knowledge? As assuming labour rates, coz Porsche, will be way above a normal garage.
Would it be a substantial savings if you got work general work done at a good local garage, or even a vag indie who I am guessing is cheaper?
How much are porsche indie hourly rates?
hyphen said:
do you have a medical issue with your left leg?Dropped to £17.5k
Somebody get it bought!
1998 C2 manual
35k miles
As supplied with 17s, 4 spoke wheel, amber and dealer sticker.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Somebody get it bought!
1998 C2 manual
35k miles
As supplied with 17s, 4 spoke wheel, amber and dealer sticker.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
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