what is an 'early' 3.4 996?

[CocoUK]

Business model;
See advertisement, immediately enquire if rusty and make sensible offer.
Collect vehicle, take straight to garage, get shopping list of repairs and spend £500-£2k.
Give it a wash and advertise;

Buy + spend + £2k profit = sale price

As a buyer you have to move quick and potentially gamble on private adverts or stump up the £2k extra for a trader.

[Fast Bug]

Have a search on 911UK for them

[dai1983]

roca1976 said:

This is the reason you need to join the 996 Facebook group

I was chatting to him last year about that car. I was mega keen and still would be.

I asked if my Porsche specialist friend could pop over to have a look and it went dead.

[James76G]

dai1983 said:

roca1976 said:

This is the reason you need to join the 996 Facebook group

I was chatting to him last year about that car. I was mega keen and still would be.

I asked if my Porsche specialist friend could pop over to have a look and it went dead.

I joined the FB group because of Roca1976 pointing this car out. While browsing through the group last night I also noticed that the same person who was offering the Zenith car was posting about a grey car that they had enquired about and that people should be careful as it was Cat C but undeclared on the eBay advert.

Nothing wrong with that in principle (actually quite helpful), but why would you be looking for your own 996 when you were selling a very similar 996 on behalf of your father? I guess there could be a simple explanation and I was going to drop him a note about the Zenith car but with lockdown there's no way I'd be able/willing to get to Bristol to go and have a look and I am not brave enough to buy it blind.

[James76G]

n3il123 said:

Any thoughts on Friends Green?

I've fallen a bit for this one Link.

Its quite expensive I think, but it seems to have had a decent amount of work done on it?

skinny said:

Looks good. However i wouldn't be surprised if they picked it up for £14k a month ago, which personally I'd find a bit galling.

Back when I was looking in 2018 I though much the same of FGP as they appeared to be hoovering up the nice private sale stock, and flipping them very soon afterwards with some very clear profit. I also remember there was a spat about somebody who bought a car, agreed for some work done and then backed out and there was a bit of a bad vibe about it on 911UK, although I can't remember the specifics.

Much more recently though I have been watching his/their prep videos on YouTube. They aren't too long, they are reasonably well filmed (better than I can manage, anyway) and actually I've concluded that they do seem to put in a decent amount of effort to get cars improved. What I like is they do what's required, but they don't go over the top with the prep work. A couple of cars have had some paint due to micro blistering, but where there's some stonechipping (i.e. normal wear and tear) they leave it.

In fact it's refreshing to see them doing some genuine value add work to cars, as I am sure there are plenty of dealers (of all marques) who just buy, clean and re-advertise without doing any remedial work. I would like to see them do a full alignment on cars that get suspension work, but maybe that's done but not mentioned/shown in the videos. They also offer an IMS upgrade for a fee, but I am not sure what happens if you don't take it and your IMS fails in the weeks that follow. I'd like to think you were still covered.

The Zenith car features in a few videos and it does seem to be very sorted and certainly sounds good. If it were to my taste, I'd be keen to go and see it, especially as they've had it a while as there is a video of it from the 17th January.

[skinny]

James76G said:

The dilemma then is do I buy a £14K to buy a 996 C2 3.4 but risk it quickly becoming a £20k car. Or do I buy a 997 C2 3.6 for £25k which "shouldn't" need as much doing to it, but "might" be more susceptible to bore scoring. Choices, choices.

Buy the right 14k 996 and you'll just need to keep on top of regular maintenance. If you've seen recent bills for clutch, suspension, a/c parts, cooling system, etc then you should have a pretty good time of it. And to find one with all that stuff done won't cost significantly more than one without, certainly nowhere near what it costs to do, as you never get your money back on maintenance.
And there's nothing to say a £25k 997 won't need exactly the same things spending on as a £14k 996 (well minus IMS if after 2006 i understand). They're all old cars now.

[CocoUK]

The magic number was £20k for a sorted 996.
Buy for less and spend a few quid or buy sorted and off you go.

That number may be lower now as plenty over recent years have been owned by enthusiasts and kept well maintained - eventually sold in the teens?

As above, a 997.1 is now ~15 years old.
The engine might be a gamble but the rest is likely due some spend coming up.

[porkey]

n3il123 said:

Any thoughts on Friends Green?

I've fallen a bit for this one Link.

Its quite expensive I think, but it seems to have had a decent amount of work done on it?

Nice looking car that. But miles would always be a worry though with big end bearing and potential crank wear on cars approaching 100k.

[Chris Stott]

If you discount anything approaching 100k miles you’re reducing the number of cars to choose from to a handful... theses are 20 year old cars. There are numerous owners on here running cars with well over 100k miles... mine has nearly 180k now... it’s had no engine work, uses no oil, and still pulls like a train.

As for the FG car, the price looks steep for the mileage, but it’s had work done that could easily run to 4K. All the small suspension bits alone would be 2k at an Indy, headers can be a nightmare of a job (22hrs to fit a new exhaust on mine), etc. It looks like a very well maintained car.

[Fast Bug]

Mine's on over 140k now, still pulls like a train and hasn't really spat any sizeable bills at me. I do have headers looming at some stage though, which like Chris says, can be a big job to do.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Good friend of mine is thinking about selling his mint, black on back 3.4 it's only done 36k miles with full main dealer history. C2 without aero kit.

[porkey]

Chris Stott said:

If you discount anything approaching 100k miles you’re reducing the number of cars to choose from to a handful... theses are 20 year old cars. There are numerous owners on here running cars with well over 100k miles... mine has nearly 180k now... it’s had no engine work, uses no oil, and still pulls like a train.

As for the FG car, the price looks steep for the mileage, but it’s had work done that could easily run to 4K. All the small suspension bits alone would be 2k at an Indy, headers can be a nightmare of a job (22hrs to fit a new exhaust on mine), etc. It looks like a very well maintained car.

180k and no engine work is impressive and perhaps puts things into perspective. We will have all read various info from a well known and respected 996 indy that 100k is were the crank could start to show signs of wear and in the event that the engine does need a rebuild , you may need to source a replacement.

However, for the money what other car offers the same bang for the buck?

[Chris Stott]

The ‘well known’ and ‘respected’ Indy with a vested interest?

So much scare mongering around. Sure, avoid the higher risk versions (primarily bore scoring related), but to write off cars simply because they are approaching 100k miles... you may as well just give up on a 996 if that’s your approach.

[roca1976]

I am at 90k now and just ordered millers oil analysis kit. I reckon annual assessment is my preferred form of defence.

This is one of my favourite early cars, some stunning options it's been for sale for ages so would be worth a cheeky offer, needs a nice carbon duckie and sort the noisy exhaust. It is on YouTube LLF if anyone wants to see more of it.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2020...

[roca1976]

This must be close to worth buying to swap out the 3.7 with a tired 3.4 in your coupe, Tequipment shift knob and handbrake, keep and refinish the Sport Techno if oem and not reps and punt back on for 11k this summer...

https://www.nicholascharlescars.co.uk/used-car/por...

[Dammit]

Chris Stott said:

The ‘well known’ and ‘respected’ Indy with a vested interest?

So much scare mongering around. Sure, avoid the higher risk versions (primarily bore scoring related), but to write off cars simply because they are approaching 100k miles... you may as well just give up on a 996 if that’s your approach.

I don't think anyone is writing them off, just being sensible about what the car is likely to need as the mileage increases.

Of course, I acknowledge that your motor is on 180k, but when n=1 it's not able to tell the complete story.

One thing to consider, when saying cui bono about who is talking of wear above 100k - waiting for the crank to be beyond use would make the rebuilder more money, they're advocating that the bearings be replaced at around 100k to avoid 3-4k for a new crank if it's scored beyond use or snaps.

I would factor in the basic engine rebuild at Hartech (which is surprisingly affordable, and is the most common thing that they do) when looking at any 100k+ 996 (and indeed any other vehicle with an M96 or derivative thereof.

[Dammit]

In other news, my car might be available for collection in the coming week, which is exciting as I dropped it off at the start of the year.

[Chris Stott]

Dammit said:

I would factor in the basic engine rebuild at Hartech (which is surprisingly affordable, and is the most common thing that they do) when looking at any 100k+ 996 (and indeed any other vehicle with an M96 or derivative thereof.

Adding c.7k to the purchase price?

fk that.

I’d rather take my chances and enjoy the car for 30/40/50k miles.

[Fast Bug]

Dammit said:

Chris Stott said:

The ‘well known’ and ‘respected’ Indy with a vested interest?

So much scare mongering around. Sure, avoid the higher risk versions (primarily bore scoring related), but to write off cars simply because they are approaching 100k miles... you may as well just give up on a 996 if that’s your approach.

I don't think anyone is writing them off, just being sensible about what the car is likely to need as the mileage increases.

Of course, I acknowledge that your motor is on 180k, but when n=1 it's not able to tell the complete story.

One thing to consider, when saying cui bono about who is talking of wear above 100k - waiting for the crank to be beyond use would make the rebuilder more money, they're advocating that the bearings be replaced at around 100k to avoid 3-4k for a new crank if it's scored beyond use or snaps.

I would factor in the basic engine rebuild at Hartech (which is surprisingly affordable, and is the most common thing that they do) when looking at any 100k+ 996 (and indeed any other vehicle with an M96 or derivative thereof.

Popopbangbang on here got to 300k before rebuilding his 996 engine. There's lots of cars in the States on over 200k miles as well. My indi says they're more reliable used often then the garage queens are

[skinny]

130k on mine now, all original engine-wise. Still very low wear metals in the oil analysis and 2 bar hot idle.
Im certainly not panicking that it's in imminent need of a rebuild just yet.
Car's only worth 12k tops, I'm in it for £16k. I could put another £14k into the engine, or i could buy a 997.2 for not much more. Or i could just drive it and enjoy it as it is.