what is an 'early' 3.4 996?
Discussion
Chris Stott said:
The ‘well known’ and ‘respected’ Indy with a vested interest?
So much scare mongering around. Sure, avoid the higher risk versions (primarily bore scoring related), but to write off cars simply because they are approaching 100k miles... you may as well just give up on a 996 if that’s your approach.
Yes, I agree, the vast majority of cars are now up to and beyond 100k and finding one with significantly less miles is getting tricky.So much scare mongering around. Sure, avoid the higher risk versions (primarily bore scoring related), but to write off cars simply because they are approaching 100k miles... you may as well just give up on a 996 if that’s your approach.
The point I was making is that in the unlikely event that your 100k+ miles engine goes pop you may need to factor in the cost of S/H crank into the rebuild.adding quite a few ££'s to the cost.
CocoUK said:
Business model;
See advertisement, immediately enquire if rusty and make sensible offer.
Collect vehicle, take straight to garage, get shopping list of repairs and spend £500-£2k.
Give it a wash and advertise;
Buy + spend + £2k profit = sale price
As a buyer you have to move quick and potentially gamble on private adverts or stump up the £2k extra for a trader.
I have no grumble at all with business's like above, they are not forcing you to buy it & they are taking some of the risk out of the process for you.See advertisement, immediately enquire if rusty and make sensible offer.
Collect vehicle, take straight to garage, get shopping list of repairs and spend £500-£2k.
Give it a wash and advertise;
Buy + spend + £2k profit = sale price
As a buyer you have to move quick and potentially gamble on private adverts or stump up the £2k extra for a trader.
jonny996 said:
I have no grumble at all with business's like above, they are not forcing you to buy it & they are taking some of the risk out of the process for you.
Exactly. Presumably the guys not expected to spend his working life buying and selling cars for the good of his health? If they don’t buy cars privately where are they supposed to get the stock from?
Chris Stott said:
Adding c.7k to the purchase price?
f
k that.
I’d rather take my chances and enjoy the car for 30/40/50k miles.
Well, yes - you either account for it when you purchase the car and negotiate the purchase price accordingly, or you buy at a higher price because you're comfortable that you have the 10k that a scrapped crank re-build will cost.f
k that. I’d rather take my chances and enjoy the car for 30/40/50k miles.
Or you buy a 130,000 mile car for £15,000 and scrap it if/when the engine goes because you can't afford to rebuild it, I suppose.
Personally I'd want a car on over 100k miles to be at or under 10k, and the further past 100k it is, the further under 10k I'd want it to be, unless it's had a refresh with new bearings etc, and of course bearing in mind the state of the suspension, cooling, gearbox and clutch - the usual stuff.
skinny said:
James76G said:
The dilemma then is do I buy a £14K to buy a 996 C2 3.4 but risk it quickly becoming a £20k car. Or do I buy a 997 C2 3.6 for £25k which "shouldn't" need as much doing to it, but "might" be more susceptible to bore scoring. Choices, choices.
Buy the right 14k 996 and you'll just need to keep on top of regular maintenance. If you've seen recent bills for clutch, suspension, a/c parts, cooling system, etc then you should have a pretty good time of it. And to find one with all that stuff done won't cost significantly more than one without, certainly nowhere near what it costs to do, as you never get your money back on maintenance. And there's nothing to say a £25k 997 won't need exactly the same things spending on as a £14k 996 (well minus IMS if after 2006 i understand). They're all old cars now.
Biggest thing I would recommend people think about on these cars is the gearbox. No one talks about the gearbox when talking about these cars. I know we all hate the tiptronic but the manual is a known weak point if you ask me. Anyone who knows these cars will tell you they eat gearboxes. If nothing breaks and you just want a refurb that's 3 or 4 grand. All that gets you is some new bearings which dont whine.
When I play back videos of mine just after purchase I can hear the terrible whining from the box. I didn't even know gearboxes were a weak point. On other second hand cars everyone assumes a manual gearbox will just last forever. That is not the case with these cars.
Jobs done - on my car - 2 grand or more here
Brake pipes - rigid full length of the car. I've seen some 997 ads which mention having had this done recently
Hydraulic pipes for PAS. One of mine was weeping. There might only be one but that wouldn't make sense
Clutch pipe - yes these can be repaired or bodged - mine had been repaired or bodged previously so it was replaced with a genuine Porsche part
Slave cylinder for clutch
Coolant pipes - I think these were the flexi pipes changed on mine as the rigid ones probably stay for the life of the car
Gear selector cables
Jobs might need doing at some point
Master cylinder - sticky clutch pedal - if that doesnt fix it then more work needed
Starter Motor and Y cable connecting the Starter Motor - lazy hot starter
A very well maintained car will need some mention of the above bits and pieces. Mine swallowed 6 grand even though it came to me with - recent bills for clutch, suspension, a/c parts, cooling system.
My advice is dont expect that well maintained example to cost you less. You still need a good 5 or 6 grand in reserve just in case. Yeah you can save money on the above doing some work yourself. But the big items like gearbox and engine are just going to swallow money.
My advice is worry less about saving a grand on the purchase price and get a car you like for other reasons like the condition or the colour or the spec or whatever turns you on. You need a car you will love because if it throws a bill at you for 4 grand you need to able to think I dont really care because I love the car. So buy one you will love and if it doesn't cost you a fortune you can feel lucky. If that means spending more for low mileage then do it - if that turns you on. If that means waiting for a yellow one then do it - if that tuns you on. If that means waiting for one with the aero kit in Green then do it - if that turns you on etc etc etc.
Not sure anyone is suggesting to pay 15k for a car with 130k miles on it.
Much more likely you buy a car with 90-100k miles for 12-13k, put 20k on it over 4 years, have no engine issues and enjoy it.
Personally, if I was looking at manual 3.4’s at that mileage I’d be more concerned about the general mechanical condition than the engine. Otherwise you’re looking at minimum 2k/year to replace stuff that just wears out.
Much more likely you buy a car with 90-100k miles for 12-13k, put 20k on it over 4 years, have no engine issues and enjoy it.
Personally, if I was looking at manual 3.4’s at that mileage I’d be more concerned about the general mechanical condition than the engine. Otherwise you’re looking at minimum 2k/year to replace stuff that just wears out.
For £30 a year an oil analysis seems to be one of the best ways of keeping tabs on the engine instead of just chucking an IMS in (assuming you aren't doing a clutch anyway) or dropping the sump pan and bore scopes.
Mine (996.2 / 3.6) doesn't need a clutch or gearbox, it isn't making any nasty ticking noises and doesn't use oil or coolant so I will continue with annual oil change and analysis and take it a year at a time (currently 90k) Unfortunately AFN Reading were unwilling to divulge any information about its service history so apart from stamps in the book I have no idea if it had a replacement IMS. I would like to assume it was checked for wobble when they did the clutch at 80k (The RMS was changed).
Due to the relatively low purchase price I don't intend to spend out on a full monty engine build if that time comes, a nice straight non-sunroof C2 in black over black is always going to be worth 8-9k as a parts car?
Without the funds to upgrade to a 997.2 I would probably look at adding £6k and jumping into a 2.7 Cayman or maybe a V8 M3 (£570 VED is a bit salty). Nothing else relatively modern around £15k floats my boat unless I lucked upon a sorted 996.1.
Mine (996.2 / 3.6) doesn't need a clutch or gearbox, it isn't making any nasty ticking noises and doesn't use oil or coolant so I will continue with annual oil change and analysis and take it a year at a time (currently 90k) Unfortunately AFN Reading were unwilling to divulge any information about its service history so apart from stamps in the book I have no idea if it had a replacement IMS. I would like to assume it was checked for wobble when they did the clutch at 80k (The RMS was changed).
Due to the relatively low purchase price I don't intend to spend out on a full monty engine build if that time comes, a nice straight non-sunroof C2 in black over black is always going to be worth 8-9k as a parts car?
Without the funds to upgrade to a 997.2 I would probably look at adding £6k and jumping into a 2.7 Cayman or maybe a V8 M3 (£570 VED is a bit salty). Nothing else relatively modern around £15k floats my boat unless I lucked upon a sorted 996.1.
jeezus I would sell my kids for this: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
I definitely agree about gearboxes. I think 'someone' tried to hide that mine had a whine. When I had it served a year in I had the transmission oil done too and suddenly there's a whine. You can only hear it at very low speed but it's not quite like driving a Mini yet though. I'd like to get it done in a few years time if it doesn't worsen significantly. As far as I can tell now audible change since 2015 but then that's probably only 10k miles of driving.
m444ttb said:
I definitely agree about gearboxes. I think 'someone' tried to hide that mine had a whine. When I had it served a year in I had the transmission oil done too and suddenly there's a whine. You can only hear it at very low speed but it's not quite like driving a Mini yet though. I'd like to get it done in a few years time if it doesn't worsen significantly. As far as I can tell now audible change since 2015 but then that's probably only 10k miles of driving.
Interesting that you only noticed it after a fluid change. Can they mask it with some form of additive or thicker fluid?roca1976 said:
jeezus I would sell my kids for this: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Nice that
Edited by ATM on Friday 22 May 10:44
ATM said:
skinny said:
James76G said:
The dilemma then is do I buy a £14K to buy a 996 C2 3.4 but risk it quickly becoming a £20k car. Or do I buy a 997 C2 3.6 for £25k which "shouldn't" need as much doing to it, but "might" be more susceptible to bore scoring. Choices, choices.
Buy the right 14k 996 and you'll just need to keep on top of regular maintenance. If you've seen recent bills for clutch, suspension, a/c parts, cooling system, etc then you should have a pretty good time of it. And to find one with all that stuff done won't cost significantly more than one without, certainly nowhere near what it costs to do, as you never get your money back on maintenance. And there's nothing to say a £25k 997 won't need exactly the same things spending on as a £14k 996 (well minus IMS if after 2006 i understand). They're all old cars now.
Biggest thing I would recommend people think about on these cars is the gearbox. No one talks about the gearbox when talking about these cars. I know we all hate the tiptronic but the manual is a known weak point if you ask me. Anyone who knows these cars will tell you they eat gearboxes. If nothing breaks and you just want a refurb that's 3 or 4 grand. All that gets you is some new bearings which dont whine.
When I play back videos of mine just after purchase I can hear the terrible whining from the box. I didn't even know gearboxes were a weak point. On other second hand cars everyone assumes a manual gearbox will just last forever. That is not the case with these cars.
Jobs done - on my car - 2 grand or more here
Brake pipes - rigid full length of the car. I've seen some 997 ads which mention having had this done recently
Hydraulic pipes for PAS. One of mine was weeping. There might only be one but that wouldn't make sense
Clutch pipe - yes these can be repaired or bodged - mine had been repaired or bodged previously so it was replaced with a genuine Porsche part
Slave cylinder for clutch
Coolant pipes - I think these were the flexi pipes changed on mine as the rigid ones probably stay for the life of the car
Gear selector cables
Jobs might need doing at some point
Master cylinder - sticky clutch pedal - if that doesnt fix it then more work needed
Starter Motor and Y cable connecting the Starter Motor - lazy hot starter
A very well maintained car will need some mention of the above bits and pieces. Mine swallowed 6 grand even though it came to me with - recent bills for clutch, suspension, a/c parts, cooling system.
My advice is dont expect that well maintained example to cost you less. You still need a good 5 or 6 grand in reserve just in case. Yeah you can save money on the above doing some work yourself. But the big items like gearbox and engine are just going to swallow money.
My advice is worry less about saving a grand on the purchase price and get a car you like for other reasons like the condition or the colour or the spec or whatever turns you on. You need a car you will love because if it throws a bill at you for 4 grand you need to able to think I dont really care because I love the car. So buy one you will love and if it doesn't cost you a fortune you can feel lucky. If that means spending more for low mileage then do it - if that turns you on. If that means waiting for a yellow one then do it - if that tuns you on. If that means waiting for one with the aero kit in Green then do it - if that turns you on etc etc etc.
Advantage of buying from a trader is if this stuff crops up and they're decent you can chuck the car back at them for the first 6 months or so. But that assumes you're a switched on buyer; the dealer is good; the car gives up it's secrets in the first few months etc etc.
For me I am relatively happy to do the greasy bits as I don't drive the car to work so it's a toy really, but the £3k for the gearbox rebuild (and the weekend spent sweating and covered in oil) will sting a little.
James76G said:
Re the yellow one, I also like it. A lot. And the tips can be changed, presumably.
What do we think of the price? Fair given the work and the spec or too much in the current market given the potential for prices to plummet due to the wider economic issues from CV19.
There is no detail on who did the engine rebuild at 60k. So it could have been a replacement short block which is as likely to score as any other. Were the heads then refurbed later because they needed doing again or were they missed first time round. I'm not sure I am keen on the aero side skirts on a none aero car. Could these have been added to hide something nasty underneath?What do we think of the price? Fair given the work and the spec or too much in the current market given the potential for prices to plummet due to the wider economic issues from CV19.
Re my earlier ramblings about buying a car you love. If you love yellow then there isn't much choice so you buy it for the colour and hopefully love it whatever comes.
I think the price is a bit puchy personally. I do like yellow and think the gen 2 gt3 kit looks brilliant compared to the gen 1.
I think that car might have gen 1 aero skirts which are technically incorrect.
I would fit a gen 2 gt3 front bumper and gen 2 gt3 skirts and then deliberate on what to do about the rear down force.
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