what is an 'early' 3.4 996?
Discussion
Greggy69 said:
I had a long chat with a private vendor on Fri eve and was encouraged by the level of detail he could provide on the mechanical attention his car had received. Based on the description it sounds lovely but the car is located north of Aberdeen. I'm just not sure I want to shell out £150 on flights to view it.
Would you be OK to pm me the details of the car North of Aberdeen?That's assuming you've decided you're not going for it of course.
Greggy69 said:
Well I've now been and looked at 3 cars and have to say I am massively disappointed! Perhaps my expectations of how a 17 yr old 996 should look is unrealistic.
In fairness all three maintained a reasonable lustre to their paint and although the seats were in reasonable condition all had faded and stained carpeting & doorcards. Also switchgear was scratched and peeling. I assume the interiors don't wear too well on 996s then?
Other horrors inc: Cracked and torn tyre sidewalls beneath a veneer of tyreshine. A full service history that isn't. A recent "full service completed by a Porsche specialist" that as far as I can see was an oil and filter change by "We Service NE Car" for the princely sum of £150!! The name alone puts me off. The last car I looked at had the front edge of the wheel arch down to the bare metal on both sides. The salesman said this would be addressed as part of the sale. However although he volunteered that the alloys needed a refurb this would cost me an extra £75 per wheel!! I suspect that this last car also had a bore score issue.
If anyone else out there is looking for a car please be careful. I now understand cmoose's cynicism.
All 3 cars I've seen have been in the £16-18k price bracket and sub80k miles so far from cheap or high milers.
I had a long chat with a private vendor on Fri eve and was encouraged by the level of detail he could provide on the mechanical attention his car had received. Based on the description it sounds lovely but the car is located north of Aberdeen. I'm just not sure I want to shell out £150 on flights to view it.
Are my expectations unrealistic? Whilst out of my price range I have thought about going to see the car RPM Tecknik are selling to see what a good example could look like. As things stand I'm wondering if for my budget the 996 isn't really the car for me. I would have looked at a newer Cayman/Boxster but i need to have a 2+2.
My advice would be to put in the miles and just keep looking until the right car pops up for sale and don't settle for something grotty.In fairness all three maintained a reasonable lustre to their paint and although the seats were in reasonable condition all had faded and stained carpeting & doorcards. Also switchgear was scratched and peeling. I assume the interiors don't wear too well on 996s then?
Other horrors inc: Cracked and torn tyre sidewalls beneath a veneer of tyreshine. A full service history that isn't. A recent "full service completed by a Porsche specialist" that as far as I can see was an oil and filter change by "We Service NE Car" for the princely sum of £150!! The name alone puts me off. The last car I looked at had the front edge of the wheel arch down to the bare metal on both sides. The salesman said this would be addressed as part of the sale. However although he volunteered that the alloys needed a refurb this would cost me an extra £75 per wheel!! I suspect that this last car also had a bore score issue.
If anyone else out there is looking for a car please be careful. I now understand cmoose's cynicism.
All 3 cars I've seen have been in the £16-18k price bracket and sub80k miles so far from cheap or high milers.
I had a long chat with a private vendor on Fri eve and was encouraged by the level of detail he could provide on the mechanical attention his car had received. Based on the description it sounds lovely but the car is located north of Aberdeen. I'm just not sure I want to shell out £150 on flights to view it.
Are my expectations unrealistic? Whilst out of my price range I have thought about going to see the car RPM Tecknik are selling to see what a good example could look like. As things stand I'm wondering if for my budget the 996 isn't really the car for me. I would have looked at a newer Cayman/Boxster but i need to have a 2+2.
I looked at 10 before finding mine.
Not sure what your ideal spec is, but be prepared to be flexible on certain things as well. Sports seats, M030 suspension etc is nice but not the end of the world if the car doesn't have them.
In general I found that the interiors on most cars had worn pretty well considering how old they are now.
For the budget you have, you should be able to get something really nice.
I did.
Edited by porkey on Monday 3rd July 08:56
M030 (and, indeed, any suspension) is going to need a refresh at the kind of mileage that these cars are at now - unless maintaining absolute adherence to the under-bonnet sticker is important to you I'd just plan on replacing the dampers for whatever you want when you do your post-purchase service. Unless the seller has just replaced them, of course.
NJH said:
I think we all know that best low stress likelihood of great condition option is a 987.2, but then it wouldn't be a 911. For me its a heart v head thing, my head says look for a nice sub 20k 987.2 boxster S, or a 2.9 Cayman, my heart says early 996 C2 and the result of all this internal debate is I have been prepping my 944 S2 race car for an MoT again with the intention of using her more (sometimes a little bit crazy is probably the best thing).
Neil, there's certainly something about the 996 that makes it feel a more grown-up car than the 986. I really liked my 986S & It's surprising how different the two cars are when they share so much. I have no doubt the 3.2 986 is outstanding value, and the induction noise is wonderful, but as you say, it's not a 911.Its maybe covering old ground but what really stuck in my mind is the cabin in the Cayman/Boxster felt really small and claustrophobic to me compared to the contemporary 911s. Its a first impression thing that I haven't shaken off, that is the one area where my head points to a 996, that and I can always remember the EMC boys extolling how wonderful the 996 is when they started racing the things.
I don't think I'd pass on a car if it needed a bit of paint or work as long as the price reflected it. Mine needs some time and money spent on the interior, but the price reflected that. It had a fair bit of paintwork prior to me buying it, if I was being hyper critical the roof could do with being painted, but that can be done another time. More important to me was that the suspension had been refreshed as had the brakes (although I did get uprated front pads and braided hoses done)
I think that is the issue, cars that need a £3-4K refresh are not priced £3-4K less than the good ones.
you would assume that the good cars are now a family's second or third car & the fact they have a 911 indicates they may not have that burning need for the £15k they would get for it so as noted less & less good ones are coming up.
Was it not 18 months ago we were discussing the possibility of a £5k rough 996 being uneconomical to refresh
you would assume that the good cars are now a family's second or third car & the fact they have a 911 indicates they may not have that burning need for the £15k they would get for it so as noted less & less good ones are coming up.
Was it not 18 months ago we were discussing the possibility of a £5k rough 996 being uneconomical to refresh
NJH said:
Its maybe covering old ground but what really stuck in my mind is the cabin in the Cayman/Boxster felt really small and claustrophobic to me compared to the contemporary 911s. Its a first impression thing that I haven't shaken off, that is the one area where my head points to a 996, that and I can always remember the EMC boys extolling how wonderful the 996 is when they started racing the things.
The 996 cabin is very airy with incredibly good visibility. Obviously if you just look forwards it's identical to the 986 ...might go for a drive this afternoon
edh said:
NJH said:
Its maybe covering old ground but what really stuck in my mind is the cabin in the Cayman/Boxster felt really small and claustrophobic to me compared to the contemporary 911s. Its a first impression thing that I haven't shaken off, that is the one area where my head points to a 996, that and I can always remember the EMC boys extolling how wonderful the 996 is when they started racing the things.
The 996 cabin is very airy with incredibly good visibility. Obviously if you just look forwards it's identical to the 986 ...might go for a drive this afternoon
I also had a poor experience trying to find a 'good' early 996 C2, I looked at a number of them over a 2 year period (yes, 2 years! - I gave up in the middle and started to consider other cars), I too wondered if my expectations were too high - rust, oval bore tapping, poor general condition... I tried to improve my chances by widening the search criteria to include 997.1's too although the few I looked at (including rebuilt ones, Hartech etc.) still had a number of issues with condition, service history, skimping on rebuild spec etc.
As has been said these cars are not cheap to run 'properly' and I found most owners had been of the type to 'just own it for a year or two before passing it on' and hence perhaps not wanted to invest lots of money into maintenance, particularly given the prices 996's had sunk to going back a few years.
All I would say to anyone else looking for a 'good' early 996 is don't give up, persevere. I personally preferred the more analogue feel of the early 996's to 997's, mainly steering/suspension. Make a list of questions to ask sellers and make sure you run through these on the phone. This process can help massively weed out the bad ones - I'm sorry but 'FSH in the advert' should not mean last serviced 4 years ago!
Type of questions I had on my list included but not limited to:
How long owned / type of journeys used for
Service history:
• Each year irrespective of mileage?
• When last service/oil change/by who/what type of oil used?
Engine/Gearbox
• Previously rebuilt? When/by who/documented? Both ‘banks’ or bank 2 only?
• IMS / RMS leaks? Replaced?
• When was clutch last replaced?
• 2nd gear crunch from cold?
• Oil consumption – Much/any oil used between services?
• Good oil pressure?
• Any oil leaks?
• Radiators and AC condensers good?
• Smoke when starting up? Both exhausts or just one side?
Suspension/steering/brakes
• Been overhauled/refreshed in recent years?
• When the shocks were last replaced?
• When were front coffin arms last replaced?
• Front to rear brake pipes replaced (as they run over the top of the engine/gearbox and are expensive to replace)
Bodywork/rust
• Any known previous accident damage?
• Any noticeable marks?
Interior/boot:
• Condition / any damp?
Single key for all locks and both originals exist?
Yes, I was a 'picky' buyer but I eventually found the right car, in the right spec - owned for 11 years by someone who had a complete money no object approach to maintenance, serviced every year without fail with any advisories tackled - all suspension replaced (due to advisory on slight corrosion on front struts!), all brake pipes replaced (due to another minor advisory) etc. They are out there. Thing is, with mine the advert was really understated and I almost passed it by. I only made contact as I was viewing another in the vicinity which was advertised on an owners forum waxing lyrical about the car. When both talking on the phone and viewing it was clear which was the better car.
As has been said these cars are not cheap to run 'properly' and I found most owners had been of the type to 'just own it for a year or two before passing it on' and hence perhaps not wanted to invest lots of money into maintenance, particularly given the prices 996's had sunk to going back a few years.
All I would say to anyone else looking for a 'good' early 996 is don't give up, persevere. I personally preferred the more analogue feel of the early 996's to 997's, mainly steering/suspension. Make a list of questions to ask sellers and make sure you run through these on the phone. This process can help massively weed out the bad ones - I'm sorry but 'FSH in the advert' should not mean last serviced 4 years ago!
Type of questions I had on my list included but not limited to:
How long owned / type of journeys used for
Service history:
• Each year irrespective of mileage?
• When last service/oil change/by who/what type of oil used?
Engine/Gearbox
• Previously rebuilt? When/by who/documented? Both ‘banks’ or bank 2 only?
• IMS / RMS leaks? Replaced?
• When was clutch last replaced?
• 2nd gear crunch from cold?
• Oil consumption – Much/any oil used between services?
• Good oil pressure?
• Any oil leaks?
• Radiators and AC condensers good?
• Smoke when starting up? Both exhausts or just one side?
Suspension/steering/brakes
• Been overhauled/refreshed in recent years?
• When the shocks were last replaced?
• When were front coffin arms last replaced?
• Front to rear brake pipes replaced (as they run over the top of the engine/gearbox and are expensive to replace)
Bodywork/rust
• Any known previous accident damage?
• Any noticeable marks?
Interior/boot:
• Condition / any damp?
Single key for all locks and both originals exist?
Yes, I was a 'picky' buyer but I eventually found the right car, in the right spec - owned for 11 years by someone who had a complete money no object approach to maintenance, serviced every year without fail with any advisories tackled - all suspension replaced (due to advisory on slight corrosion on front struts!), all brake pipes replaced (due to another minor advisory) etc. They are out there. Thing is, with mine the advert was really understated and I almost passed it by. I only made contact as I was viewing another in the vicinity which was advertised on an owners forum waxing lyrical about the car. When both talking on the phone and viewing it was clear which was the better car.
I think any 20 year old car will need ongoing maintenance. Find one that's had a chunk done recently, expect to follow up with a few bits and bobs, then make sure you stay on top with essential maintenance plus discretionary spend every year to get the car exactly how you want it.
Two years is a long time and a lot of effort to find a perfect car when you could be using a 90%er and planning upgrades. The cost differential would be tiny too.
Yes, I'll be annoyed if I need an engine rebuild in the next year, but I'd live with it and accept the opportunity to plan the next 100 thousand miles.
Even the catastrophic failure modes are only the same cost as a few options on a new 991.
Two years is a long time and a lot of effort to find a perfect car when you could be using a 90%er and planning upgrades. The cost differential would be tiny too.
Yes, I'll be annoyed if I need an engine rebuild in the next year, but I'd live with it and accept the opportunity to plan the next 100 thousand miles.
Even the catastrophic failure modes are only the same cost as a few options on a new 991.
Bparry said:
I purchased this low mileage '99 manual last month and love it to bits just wanted to say this thread has been very insightful so thankyou all.
Lovely, that's exactly what mine looked like 6 weeks ago before the wheel refurb and re-ambering. just wanted to say this thread has been very insightful so thankyou all.I may go back to silver wheels. Undecided.
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