what is an 'early' 3.4 996?
Discussion
ATM said:
My mate has a 996.2 c2 and wants to refresh some of his suspension but not go crazy. We cant seem to find standard springs anywhere. What is the go to nowadays for standard - so springs and also dampers?
TIA
Bilstein are the oe damper supplier so if you buy b4 shocks then you're getting 'standard' stuff. Springs are quite complex as there were lots of different types fitted depending on spec, there are some guides out there but your best bet is probably Porsche!TIA
One of my friends has just put Koni Sport active shocks on his Targa to soften the ride from the M030 kit he put on 6 yrs ago.
I've Bilstein B8s with H&R lowering springs to replace the M030 that the car came with although the ride is firm to say the least. If you want an idea on what each different spec/combo of springs/dampers rides like from an experts' view, there was a feature in 911 & Porsche magazine a couple of years ago where the boys from Center Gravity tested various cars & gave their opinion on things. If you want a honest view on getting as close to OEM setup, give them a call as they'll speak about what's close to OEM in ride quality/height and what gives best value for money from their experience.
I've Bilstein B8s with H&R lowering springs to replace the M030 that the car came with although the ride is firm to say the least. If you want an idea on what each different spec/combo of springs/dampers rides like from an experts' view, there was a feature in 911 & Porsche magazine a couple of years ago where the boys from Center Gravity tested various cars & gave their opinion on things. If you want a honest view on getting as close to OEM setup, give them a call as they'll speak about what's close to OEM in ride quality/height and what gives best value for money from their experience.
MrC986 said:
One of my friends has just put Koni Sport active shocks on his Targa to soften the ride from the M030 kit he put on 6 yrs ago.
Would you use Koni with standard springs or stiffer mo30 type springs?MrC986 said:
I've Bilstein B8s with H&R lowering springs to replace the M030 that the car came with although the ride is firm to say the least.
H&R lowering springs get mentioned a lot. Would these match well with the Koni shocks?It feels a bit wrong for me going from standard springs to lowering springs without going a bit stiffer with the shocks. Surely if H&R lowering springs are lower than mo30 they must be a bit stiffer too.
ATM said:
H&R lowering springs get mentioned a lot. Would these match well with the Koni shocks?
It feels a bit wrong for me going from standard springs to lowering springs without going a bit stiffer with the shocks. Surely if H&R lowering springs are lower than mo30 they must be a bit stiffer too.
H&R’s are generally considered to be stiffer than the Eibach equivalent. I’d suggest possibly a bit too stiff for the UK’s poorly surfaced roads.It feels a bit wrong for me going from standard springs to lowering springs without going a bit stiffer with the shocks. Surely if H&R lowering springs are lower than mo30 they must be a bit stiffer too.
I’d go with Eibach, but for confirmation speak to Chris or Pete at CG, or Ken at 9E.
I'm getting mine back tomorrow, finally, with:
- gearbox refreshed with all new bearings, new output shaft/pinion and crown wheel, new syncro on 1st and 2nd.
- Quaife ATB
- gearbox mount replaced
- Y cable replaced
- All manifold bolts replaced,
- TopGear equal length manifolds,
- Silencer to exhaust mid section clamps replaced
ATM said:
Hmmm...small print said:
Hi all,
I have been answering questions from interested parties and this has highlighted certain issues that I believe are relevant to your consideration of my Porsche, and which I should have maybe included in my original “condition” section. It was not an attempt to deceive, but an over familiarisation with the car that I have driven for the last 17 years which has resulted in the “oddities” being accepted as normal.
1) There is only one ignition key (I’ve never had a spare), and this only works manually (key turn in lock) and not electronically (press fob). I understand that an additional key with “remote” facilities can be purchased for a couple of hundred pounds but I haven’t felt the need.
2) The interior seats are black leather and are (for a 23 year old car) in pretty good shape. However the prefabricated seam connecting the facing of the driver’s seat to the back panel is open and requires reattachment by someone who has the appropriate tool (zipper?)
3) I do have the original book pack. Unfortunately at some stage some of the booklets have got very damp with the result that some of the pages have stuck together making them impossible to read. This applies to the "Guarantees and Maintenance" booklet which contains the service "stamps". However I do have a considerable number of the detailed invoices itemising the work done by the garages who have maintained the car over the years. I don't have them all which is why I explained in my listing that I only had partial work history record. A great deal of the missing records relate to the engine that was replaced. I do have the itemised invoice covering the installation of the new engine at 77,000 miles (in April 2008) and this work also included the installation of a new clutch assembly.
On 16-Jan-2022 the seller added the following information
The successful bidder for this car turned out to be a scammer who deliberately contaminated the coolant header bottle with used oil (whilst I was distracted by a colleague) in an attempt to claim that the engine was faulty. I have therefore had the coolant system professionally cleaned.I took that opportunity to also change the battery to a new one and have the car checked over (condition report follows) and run on 11th Jan 2022.
The garage condition report is as follows
Customer advisories
Removed and replaced battery
Checked and adjusted tyre pressures
Cleaned out coolant bottle and topped up with 3.5 litres of antifreeze
Ran vehicle to temperature until fan cut in.
The following points were observed during the service and will require action before the next service or MOT
Front disks in poor condition (recommend replacement)
Air con pipes heavily corroded front and rear (recommend clean up and wax-oyl)
Long break pipe heavily corroded (recommend clean up and wax-oyl)
Brake pipe corroded OSF (recommend clean up and wax-oyl)
Discs too corroded to establish if wheel bearings are noisy (recommend replacement)
Rear silencers blowing (recommend replacement)
Windscreen wipers smear (recommend replacement)
The following points were noted and should be monitored. These may require action or review at the next MOT or service
Rear springs corroded (review at next service)
OSR calliper pipe corroding (review at next service)
Play in OSR drop link (review at next service)
Rear roll bar corroded (review at next service)
Some oil leaks (review at next service)
NSF spring corroded (review at next service)
NSF rad mount corroded (review at next service)
weat around rack (review at next service)
Rack pipes corroded (review at next service)
Slight play detached front wheels (review at next service)
I have been answering questions from interested parties and this has highlighted certain issues that I believe are relevant to your consideration of my Porsche, and which I should have maybe included in my original “condition” section. It was not an attempt to deceive, but an over familiarisation with the car that I have driven for the last 17 years which has resulted in the “oddities” being accepted as normal.
1) There is only one ignition key (I’ve never had a spare), and this only works manually (key turn in lock) and not electronically (press fob). I understand that an additional key with “remote” facilities can be purchased for a couple of hundred pounds but I haven’t felt the need.
2) The interior seats are black leather and are (for a 23 year old car) in pretty good shape. However the prefabricated seam connecting the facing of the driver’s seat to the back panel is open and requires reattachment by someone who has the appropriate tool (zipper?)
3) I do have the original book pack. Unfortunately at some stage some of the booklets have got very damp with the result that some of the pages have stuck together making them impossible to read. This applies to the "Guarantees and Maintenance" booklet which contains the service "stamps". However I do have a considerable number of the detailed invoices itemising the work done by the garages who have maintained the car over the years. I don't have them all which is why I explained in my listing that I only had partial work history record. A great deal of the missing records relate to the engine that was replaced. I do have the itemised invoice covering the installation of the new engine at 77,000 miles (in April 2008) and this work also included the installation of a new clutch assembly.
On 16-Jan-2022 the seller added the following information
The successful bidder for this car turned out to be a scammer who deliberately contaminated the coolant header bottle with used oil (whilst I was distracted by a colleague) in an attempt to claim that the engine was faulty. I have therefore had the coolant system professionally cleaned.I took that opportunity to also change the battery to a new one and have the car checked over (condition report follows) and run on 11th Jan 2022.
The garage condition report is as follows
Customer advisories
Removed and replaced battery
Checked and adjusted tyre pressures
Cleaned out coolant bottle and topped up with 3.5 litres of antifreeze
Ran vehicle to temperature until fan cut in.
The following points were observed during the service and will require action before the next service or MOT
Front disks in poor condition (recommend replacement)
Air con pipes heavily corroded front and rear (recommend clean up and wax-oyl)
Long break pipe heavily corroded (recommend clean up and wax-oyl)
Brake pipe corroded OSF (recommend clean up and wax-oyl)
Discs too corroded to establish if wheel bearings are noisy (recommend replacement)
Rear silencers blowing (recommend replacement)
Windscreen wipers smear (recommend replacement)
The following points were noted and should be monitored. These may require action or review at the next MOT or service
Rear springs corroded (review at next service)
OSR calliper pipe corroding (review at next service)
Play in OSR drop link (review at next service)
Rear roll bar corroded (review at next service)
Some oil leaks (review at next service)
NSF spring corroded (review at next service)
NSF rad mount corroded (review at next service)
weat around rack (review at next service)
Rack pipes corroded (review at next service)
Slight play detached front wheels (review at next service)
Baked_bean said:
… all 996’s are £20k cars in one way or another.
As a word of caution for prospective buyers, don’t think of that as a maximum or worst case, it doesn’t take catastrophic issues to go well over that within a relatively short ownership period even buying a mid market car. I think we can all agree it's a turd. But it's an interesting colour. That's the only thing going for it. The colour, the aero and the ambers. I wouldn't fancy taking it on. I think it needs full suspension, all pipes and tubes for brakes, ac, pas and coolant, all brakes, new rads, new rack and then there are oil leaks too. I see an ariel drilled into the roof. It looks like the rear window seal is hanging off. It's probably rusty. It's only got 1 key which only works in the door lock. The comments about oil in the water are odd. The list is endless...
MrC986 said:
I saw the add for the blue C2 with aerokit & mentally totted up how much it’d cost to deal with the known/stated issues....possibly a good few £k. The car has a very colourful MOT having looked online btw. The photos in the ad are poor as well & I reckon it won’t clear £12k.
Its a £10K+ restore and there are far better cars or things to put £10K into. I'd argue it is like a castle property that sales for £1 which needs an insane amount of work, basically paying to take the headache away from someone. I think £1 is fair, anymore and its just an expense headache.Edited by julian987R on Saturday 22 January 04:10
Slippydiff said:
ATM said:
H&R lowering springs get mentioned a lot. Would these match well with the Koni shocks?
It feels a bit wrong for me going from standard springs to lowering springs without going a bit stiffer with the shocks. Surely if H&R lowering springs are lower than mo30 they must be a bit stiffer too.
H&R’s are generally considered to be stiffer than the Eibach equivalent. I’d suggest possibly a bit too stiff for the UK’s poorly surfaced roads.It feels a bit wrong for me going from standard springs to lowering springs without going a bit stiffer with the shocks. Surely if H&R lowering springs are lower than mo30 they must be a bit stiffer too.
I’d go with Eibach, but for confirmation speak to Chris or Pete at CG, or Ken at 9E.
We went for Koni Special Actives which are designed to work with the standard springs so took off the M030 stuff but kept the M030 ARBs.
It's a lovely road setup IMO - not too soft so has good body control but more than comfortable to mop up the worst of the road imperfections so the car flows across the road and inevitably is far quicker than before.
SidewaysSi said:
I had my car refreshed by CG - it is/was a 45k miler on M030 and I found it way too stiff for the road. It was suggested the M030 suspension needs 100k miles + to soften up..!
We went for Koni Special Actives which are designed to work with the standard springs so took off the M030 stuff but kept the M030 ARBs.
It's a lovely road setup IMO - not too soft so has good body control but more than comfortable to mop up the worst of the road imperfections so the car flows across the road and inevitably is far quicker than before.
100K miles for the M030 set up to mellow ?? Obviously better suited to Germany’s Autobahns and A/B roads.We went for Koni Special Actives which are designed to work with the standard springs so took off the M030 stuff but kept the M030 ARBs.
It's a lovely road setup IMO - not too soft so has good body control but more than comfortable to mop up the worst of the road imperfections so the car flows across the road and inevitably is far quicker than before.
So you’re now running standard OE C2 springs, Koni Special Active Dampers and M030 ARB’s front and rear ?
julian987R said:
MrC986 said:
I saw the add for the blue C2 with aerokit & mentally totted up how much it’d cost to deal with the known/stated issues....possibly a good few £k. The car has a very colourful MOT having looked online btw. The photos in the ad are poor as well & I reckon it won’t clear £12k.
Its a £10K+ restore and there are far better cars or things to put £10K into. I'd argue it is like a castle property that sales for £1 which needs an insane amount of work, basically paying to take the headache away from someone. I think £1 is fair, anymore and its just an expense headache.Edited by julian987R on Saturday 22 January 04:10
This car sold for 13,400 before Christmas. I assume the new list of faults found at the inspection will prevent it going any higher than that second time around... maybe.
[quote=CA]
I am a long term lurker on this thread with a mint E46 M3 that I've had for 7 years but with a 911 itch to scratch that doesn't go away. This advice is what I need to hear to prevent extreme buyer's remorse!
This car sold for 13,400 before Christmas. I assume the new list of faults found at the inspection will prevent it going any higher than that second time around... maybe.
[/quote]
Maybe the car didn’t sell before Christmas in the end?! As others have said, if you’re handy with the spanner’s, have access to a ramp & time to do the work, it could be a cheap way into 996 ownership, but then again it might cost a lot more
I am a long term lurker on this thread with a mint E46 M3 that I've had for 7 years but with a 911 itch to scratch that doesn't go away. This advice is what I need to hear to prevent extreme buyer's remorse!
This car sold for 13,400 before Christmas. I assume the new list of faults found at the inspection will prevent it going any higher than that second time around... maybe.
[/quote]
Maybe the car didn’t sell before Christmas in the end?! As others have said, if you’re handy with the spanner’s, have access to a ramp & time to do the work, it could be a cheap way into 996 ownership, but then again it might cost a lot more
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