991.2 GT3 Deposit
Discussion
tuffer said:
An OPC called me on the release date and took my deposit, several weeks later I got the call to say I did not get an allocation but there may be a chance of a 2018 car but to increase that chance I should order a Turbo S and a Cayenne in the interim. I asked for my money back.
""but to increase that chance""..The above is the distasteful bit,, ( if fact )..
You have to be one hell of a sad case to go down that BS road...
Shiverman said:
Cheib said:
One thing you cannot do is generalisethough....every OPC/ dealer group has different policies and it very much depends on your individual contact person/people about how they're communicated with you. Dealers will tell different things to different people too.
I was told by my OPC that they didn't take any deposits before Geneva....which was Porsche GB policy apparently (at least that is what I was told!). After official launch they took the £10k deposits. There are certainly from what I have read here and elsewhere OPC's who took deposits a year or so ago....clearly those OPC's are telling people something different and your OPC is clearly telling you something different/has a different policy again.
Are OPC's playing the game a bit by holding deposits for 2018 cars ? Maybe but personally I have no problem with them having my £10k for a year....the opportunity cost is virtually zero at current interest rates....and I want the car!
Agree with you totally Cheib. It appears that the policy also differs between OPC's in the same group. I think 911R's dealer is the same group as yours and yet they invited customers yet yours took deposits after Geneva. I spoke with another part of the same group last week and apparently they have only taken deposits for confirmed cars after their initial allocation. Different OPC, different rules.I was told by my OPC that they didn't take any deposits before Geneva....which was Porsche GB policy apparently (at least that is what I was told!). After official launch they took the £10k deposits. There are certainly from what I have read here and elsewhere OPC's who took deposits a year or so ago....clearly those OPC's are telling people something different and your OPC is clearly telling you something different/has a different policy again.
Are OPC's playing the game a bit by holding deposits for 2018 cars ? Maybe but personally I have no problem with them having my £10k for a year....the opportunity cost is virtually zero at current interest rates....and I want the car!
Same for Tuffer & Taffy66. I think they are in the same group but very different experiences.
IMO It is still very hard to get to the bottom of what each OPC is doing unless they have confirmed a car to you. One thing is certain it certainly isn't an open book or a level playing field!
throt said:
tuffer said:
An OPC called me on the release date and took my deposit, several weeks later I got the call to say I did not get an allocation but there may be a chance of a 2018 car but to increase that chance I should order a Turbo S and a Cayenne in the interim. I asked for my money back.
""but to increase that chance""..The above is the distasteful bit,, ( if fact )..
You have to be one hell of a sad case to go down that BS road...
n17ves said:
Deposit section on Porsches website... "This legally confirms your order..."
http://www.porsche.com/uk/accessoriesandservice/ow...
This is what I have been saying all along.http://www.porsche.com/uk/accessoriesandservice/ow...
Now it seems some OPC's really want your money in their bank with out Porsche knowing, and it's all wrong.
My OPC does it by the book.
Others seem to be a bit dodgy , but after the court case where the guy ended up with a 4.0 RS because he had a deposit, you would have thought they would have followed the correct way.
It's all well and good people waving money at dealers, but on an invite only car, it's making people look a bit stupid esp ones buying other stock to try gain a car, people with money do expect a car it seems and get very cross when told no and throw more money at the OPC buying 3 cars to prove a point, win win for the dealer.
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 17th May 08:33
Cheib said:
Yup...impossible to know. Have to say my OPC's been very fair with me....can't fault them....I think a large part of that is the chap I deal with is very straight.
LOL but you have paid a deposit and have not placed an order, how is that straight ? It's def not by Porsche rules.Porsche911R said:
Others seem to be a bit dodgy , but after the court case where the guy ended up with a 4.0 RS because he had a deposit, you would have thought they would have followed the correct way.
Your facts are wrong.The guy did NOT get the only 4.0 RS the OPC were allocated, despite paying a deposit and having in writing (email) that he was first in line. He sued and won the case and was awarded compensation.
Twinfan said:
Your facts are wrong.
The guy did NOT get the only 4.0 RS the OPC were allocated, despite paying a deposit and having in writing (email) that he was first in line. He sued and won the case and was awarded compensation.
the finer details or direct facts of the case is not really worth talking about, but this is the quote headline of that case, but it's not important.The guy did NOT get the only 4.0 RS the OPC were allocated, despite paying a deposit and having in writing (email) that he was first in line. He sued and won the case and was awarded compensation.
"Kevin Hughes, 67, put down a staggering £10,000 deposit at Porsche Centre Bolton in Lancashire - but the dealer supplied his £135,000 dream car to someone else"
The Judge added, and this in the key and why OPC's who take deposits are running on thin ground.
"It was not just “an agreement to agree” , BY PLACING A DEPOSIT, Mr Hughes had done far more than merely “express an interest”.
I am sure the guy ended up with a car anyway some how, but the key line is he placed a deposit, did not get a car and won a court case.
On the Porsche web site it quotes
"you will need to place a preliminary deposit. This legally confirms your order "
why are people being so stupid lol it's all black and white, but you are still getting people putting down deposits , and stating their OPC is straight, but have NOT placed an order !
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 17th May 08:50
Porsche911R said:
the finer details or direct facts of the case is not really worth talking about
Yes they are, because they are important to the point you're trying to make.Porsche911R said:
the key line is he placed a deposit, did not get a car and won a court case.
He won the case because he had documentation saying he was the first in line, but the first (and only) car went to someone else.Twinfan said:
He won the case because he had documentation saying he was the first in line, but the first (and only) car went to someone else.
he did not he had a email from the sales man saying he should get a car, not a signed order form !look , did he place an order and have a signed order form, NO
did he leave a deposit, YES
did he get a car, NO
Did he win the court case , YES
It matters not they sold a car to some one else !
Are some OPC still taking this odd route of talking deposits on cars which have not been ordered, YES
Will some of these people get cars: NO
I'll go back to the Porsche web site to re-quote.
"you will need to place a preliminary deposit. This legally confirms your order "
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 17th May 09:03
Porsche911R said:
he did not he had a email from the sales man saying he should get a car, not a signed order form !
Signed order form or not, he had written proof that if the OPC were allocated a car it was his.I agree that people placing £10k deposits without any kind of paperwork or agreement that they will get a car is wrong and is against Porsche's new policy.
Porsche911R said:
Cheib said:
Yup...impossible to know. Have to say my OPC's been very fair with me....can't fault them....I think a large part of that is the chap I deal with is very straight.
LOL but you have paid a deposit and have not placed an order, how is that straight ? It's def not by Porsche rules.Exactly the same for my wife's PTS Boxster that we ordered two months ago....they were unable to confirm an estimated build date until this week because Porsche GB hadn't told them....I know that's what happened because I was sent the e-mail traffic between the OPC and Porsche GB. Indeed e don't actually have an exact date....all we have now is "it should be fine as there is enough time to order the paint"
Regardless of all that...I've never read it in detail before but the contract is heavily skewed in Porsche's favour (which is what youd' expect)....e.g it's pretty explicit that the only time a deposit is refundable after delivery date has been notified is a "no fault" termination by the buyer. The notification of the delivery date locks the buyer in legally but triggers no extra obligation for Porsche or the OPC. Conversely they absolutely can cancel it for any number of reasons and there's nothing in that contract that even says if they cancel they have to refund the deposit!
If you follow the wording of that contract legally the only time you're definitely getting a car is when you've paid in full. Clearly that's not how the world works as it would be horrible for there business but that's the legal position. Supplier goes on strike? Car can be cancelled. Phone system goes down ? Car can be cancelled Car falls off the transporter ? Car can be cancelled.
Just to be clear, I received a call requesting a deposit. I paid a deposit and received an order form which I was asked to sign and return, which I did. The Dealer DID NOT countersign the form. Several weeks later they called and said I had not received an allocation for a 2017 car and the 2018 allocation was likely to be smaller. There was a very slim chance of a car but to increase that chance I should buy more cars. Requested my deposit back and it was duly returned.
Porsche911R said:
Twinfan said:
He won the case because he had documentation saying he was the first in line, but the first (and only) car went to someone else.
he did not he had a email from the sales man saying he should get a car, not a signed order form !look , did he place an order and have a signed order form, NO
did he leave a deposit, YES
did he get a car, NO
Did he win the court case , YES
It matters not they sold a car to some one else !
Are some OPC still taking this odd route of talking deposits on cars which have not been ordered, YES
Will some of these people get cars: NO
I'll go back to the Porsche web site to re-quote.
"you will need to place a preliminary deposit. This legally confirms your order "
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 17th May 09:03
For clarity he was not promised a car on email, but merely told that he would need to pay a deposit as quickly as possible as allocation generally turned on who paid the deposit first.
The complications with this case was the order form didn't contain any specific details about the RS 4.0 because the car didn't exists at this point - for example, they didn't even know how much the car was going to be.
The Gen 2 deposit saga is clearer cut, because the actual order (from one OPC anyway) were actually entered into the Porsche production system upon receipt of the £10k deposit - Even the comm number and letter that confirms the order were retuned to some these customers, despite being then told they will not get a car.
Edited by n17ves on Wednesday 17th May 10:11
Cheib said:
Depends how you define "placing an order" I've been told I am getting a 2018 car and they have my spec....I don't have a confirmed build slot because they haven't been allocated precise build slots/dates by Porsche GB yet. An "order" means the square root of bugger all unless Porsche AG build the car....as we know from 991.1 there can be issues with production. an "order" may put you in a strong position legally but I want a car not a law suit.
Exactly the same for my wife's PTS Boxster that we ordered two months ago....they were unable to confirm an estimated build date until this week because Porsche GB hadn't told them....I know that's what happened because I was sent the e-mail traffic between the OPC and Porsche GB. Indeed e don't actually have an exact date....all we have now is "it should be fine as there is enough time to order the paint"
Regardless of all that...I've never read it in detail before but the contract is heavily skewed in Porsche's favour (which is what youd' expect)....e.g it's pretty explicit that the only time a deposit is refundable after delivery date has been notified is a "no fault" termination by the buyer. The notification of the delivery date locks the buyer in legally but triggers no extra obligation for Porsche or the OPC. Conversely they absolutely can cancel it for any number of reasons and there's nothing in that contract that even says if they cancel they have to refund the deposit!
If you follow the wording of that contract legally the only time you're definitely getting a car is when you've paid in full. Clearly that's not how the world works as it would be horrible for there business but that's the legal position. Supplier goes on strike? Car can be cancelled. Phone system goes down ? Car can be cancelled Car falls off the transporter ? Car can be cancelled.
It is tricky and a fine line, if you have placed an order Porsche want the money from the OPC and it's in there bank.Exactly the same for my wife's PTS Boxster that we ordered two months ago....they were unable to confirm an estimated build date until this week because Porsche GB hadn't told them....I know that's what happened because I was sent the e-mail traffic between the OPC and Porsche GB. Indeed e don't actually have an exact date....all we have now is "it should be fine as there is enough time to order the paint"
Regardless of all that...I've never read it in detail before but the contract is heavily skewed in Porsche's favour (which is what youd' expect)....e.g it's pretty explicit that the only time a deposit is refundable after delivery date has been notified is a "no fault" termination by the buyer. The notification of the delivery date locks the buyer in legally but triggers no extra obligation for Porsche or the OPC. Conversely they absolutely can cancel it for any number of reasons and there's nothing in that contract that even says if they cancel they have to refund the deposit!
If you follow the wording of that contract legally the only time you're definitely getting a car is when you've paid in full. Clearly that's not how the world works as it would be horrible for there business but that's the legal position. Supplier goes on strike? Car can be cancelled. Phone system goes down ? Car can be cancelled Car falls off the transporter ? Car can be cancelled.
As you have not placed an order it seems your £10k is in the OPC's bank as OPC's have no allocations for 2018 cars yet.
I am the same as you I have been told I can have a 2018 car, it must be on the system as I have had PEC invite already etc
But I have not placed an order so I have not put in my spec or had to give a deposit.
I have even offered my £10k but my OPC say they don't take money as its too risky to hold clients money on cars they cannot order yet and it will only sit in their bank !
My OPC are very upfront with me and the same with my GT4, while people were throwing money at OPC's, I paid the day I ordered the car.
Build date/slots has nothing to do with it,(so it's not the same as your wifes Boxster) your Boxster, you placed a firm signed order I take it, and the OPC would have had to pay Porsche a deposit. your GT3 you have not placed anything and your OPC has your money for a car they cannot order.
what if they get no 2018 allocation ?
I am not counting my chickens yet, that's for sure lol
It should be clearer imo from Porsche UK to their OPC's as they seem to be very strict on every thing else an OPC has to do even down to for sale signs and every small detail in the showrooms.
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 17th May 10:18
Cheib said:
Regardless of all that...I've never read it in detail before but the contract is heavily skewed in Porsche's favour (which is what youd' expect)....e.g it's pretty explicit that the only time a deposit is refundable after delivery date has been notified is a "no fault" termination by the buyer. The notification of the delivery date locks the buyer in legally but triggers no extra obligation for Porsche or the OPC. Conversely they absolutely can cancel it for any number of reasons and there's nothing in that contract that even says if they cancel they have to refund the deposit!
If you follow the wording of that contract legally the only time you're definitely getting a car is when you've paid in full. Clearly that's not how the world works as it would be horrible for there business but that's the legal position. Supplier goes on strike? Car can be cancelled. Phone system goes down ? Car can be cancelled Car falls off the transporter ? Car can be cancelled.
Interesting..... the contract (Porsche headed paper) my OPC issues out doesn't contain any of these caveats.If you follow the wording of that contract legally the only time you're definitely getting a car is when you've paid in full. Clearly that's not how the world works as it would be horrible for there business but that's the legal position. Supplier goes on strike? Car can be cancelled. Phone system goes down ? Car can be cancelled Car falls off the transporter ? Car can be cancelled.
throt said:
On the 991GT3.1 , many people ( it appears ) put down 10k, had a order form handed in with spec and signed and still didn't get an allocation. Even this coming Gen2 buyers on here have done it without a definite allocation, apparently.
But did any of these people actually pursue this fully, or did they just stamp their feet at the dealership / lodge a complaint with Porsche UK....the latter will in first instance send a generic reply with regards to how the allocations are decided by the individual dealerships. Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff