The 997 Appreciation Thread

[Filibuster]

ATM said:

The big question still remains. Start with a gen 1 or a gen 2. Yes we know the gen 1 engine can be fettled to 4.1 but surely in the future someone will start offering gen 2 rebuilds and capacity increases. I still cant get past the stupidity of the IMS in all gen 1 engines. It's sole purpose is to allow the use of identical heads on both sides of the engine. That just sounds cheap to Me.

With the correct bearing, it works! I wouldn't go as far as calling it a stupid design, especially considering the financial situation of Porsche in the early/mid 90's.
It is a great engine design, let down by mainly two shortcuts: the ims bearing and the cylinder coating.
With time passing, more and more gen 1 cars either have a engine overhaul or they are cars that will last 150k miles. And at that point, I don't think it is unreasonable to have an engine overhaul. Nobody moans about air cooled stuff that needs engine works at that point. And as has been established, £10-15k is a reasonable amount for revised engine that has these two aspects covered and is good for another 150k miles.

The M96/7 engine is a hugely characterful engine, imho much more so than the 9a1/2 engines. Don't get me wrong, these are great, great engines as well, just much more modern. IMHO they suit the 991 very well and saying they are too modern for a 997 would be exaggerating very much! And of course I keep banging on about how great my car is, but I really fell in love with it...

A good friend of mine has a 997.2 C4S Targa PDK with ventilated seats, PASM (obviously), PSE and everything else you could spec at the time. The complete opposite of my bare bone manual 997.1 C2. In the real world, driving on public roads both cars back to back, there is no difference in performance between the two.

Mine is so much more engaging to drive and with the standard exhaust (well run in exhaust) and 200 cell Top Gear cats sound much better. I can't switch my dampers and I can't switch my exhaust, which I prefer myself in what I call a modern classic.

My friends Targa is a great cruiser and by no means I want to bad mouth his car or any other Targa, but DFI with 4wd, Targa roof, PDK and many luxury extras, it keeps getting away from the pure driving experience the 996/7 chassis can offer.

I guess what I want to say, is that the M96/7 engine suits the 997 very, very well.

[Filibuster]

Double post from my reader's car thread:

Today I got my winter wheels fitted.





18" Carrera III wheels with Continental TS 850 (iirc) fitted. Also the car is running 15mm spaccers on the rear and 10mm on the front (per wheel). And yes, the Porsche wheel crest point to the valve and the wheel locks are opposite

The ride is much more comfortable and more soft on the 18" wheels.

A big service is planned in the next weeks, consisting of

• oil and filter (i will use the Motul 5W40 I still have, next time I will probably go for Motul 5W50)
• oil sump needs to be refitted, due to minimal oil sweeping (there is no gasket I think)
• air filter
• Motul 75W90 gearbox oil change
• replace crossover coolant pipes
• fit 3rd / center radiator
• fit low temperature thermostat (or replace with oem one, not decided yet)
• replace water pump
• coolant flush

The crossover pipes have started to corrode, so I better get them replaced. As of now, the car has always held very stable temperatures throughout all conditions. From snowy mountain passes to the summer heat in stop and go traffic around Saint Tropez. Above measures are purely prophylactic and should see the old girl in good thermic health for the next decade.

[Filibuster]

cabbalisticar said:

Filibuster said:

As of now, the car has always held very stable temperatures throughout all conditions. From snowy mountain passes to the summer heat in stop and go traffic around Saint Tropez.

Is that via the dash temp gauge? If so, it's not a real temp gauge, it's heavily buffered and locks in showing 80 degrees C over a range from about 75 degrees to well over 100 degrees, perhaps as high as 110 degrees.

If the needle moves off top dead centre, then the coolant temp is very, very hot. It's done to stop lay owners from worrying about what in reality will be quite wide temp fluctuations with a properly functioning engine and the idea is that you only need to know if it's about to overheat. But in practice it's a pity because it would be helpful to see when the engine is running a bit hotter than usual to catch issues in an early stage.

I know that, I therefore only care for the oil temperature (unless the water temp gauge moves at all!).
This is a reading from last spring, during a spirited Engadine drive. Oil temperature is nearly 110°C, while water shows 80° as usual.

[Filibuster]

cabbalisticar said:

Sorry, always forget about you lucky 997 buggers and your oil temp gauges!

And I always forget that the 996 has a volt meter in lieu of an oil temp gauge. I much, much prefer the oil temp reading. It tells my when it is okay to give it some revs

[Filibuster]

ATM said:

337 thousand km?!?

That is correct, Sir. My reader's car thread has some more info on it in case you are interested.

ETA: that was last spring. Haven't driven it much so it is only @ 342 thousand km now. Need to pack some more miles, I mean kilometers, on it!

Edited by Filibuster on Wednesday 30th November 15:31

[Filibuster]

ATM said:

The wear on those side bolster look immense for the mileage

[Filibuster]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The side bolster has lots of wear too....
The wear on this seat is untolerable for the mileage!

Also the aftermarket radio defies the point of a "time capsule", as new Porsche too. No mention of the original one coming with the car either.
Of course you can buy a used PCM, but this will have been touched for more than during 9k miles and it is not the one it left the factory with.

[Filibuster]

911 and a Mini?

I have to search for a pis of my 997 with my F56 Mini Cooper S

[Filibuster]

julian987R said:

Filibuster said:

911 and a Mini?

I have to search for a pis of my 997 with my F56 Mini Cooper S

Pic, I meant to write pic

I just had an other look, but I can’t find one with the two cars on it

[Filibuster]

Took her out during yesterdays glorious weather. Parked next to the neighbourly 968 convertible that lives on the street all year round.



The 997 is just so right in every way

[Filibuster]

dgswk said:

ATM said:

dgswk said:

P17 Sports Suspension (- 20 mm) including mechanical rear differential lock

Reading up on it, P17 was the newer code for M030. Think it was option M030 on 996's.

I think it is x73 but maybe with the LSD it is a different option code. M030 was only slightly lower. I think -20 refers to the PASM which is already -10. So in effect you are -30 from a standard car. I might be wrong. But when I had mine in 2005 I remember reading about this option which was free I think if you ditched the PASM [which was standard on the S] for it.

Yeah, that's how I understand it, its -30mm on a C2 and -20mm on a C2S with PASM. It was a free option, but as you say, at the time PASM was the default new shiny thing, so most people specified it. I guess a bit like PDK -> Manual now.

The XCZ Sport Shifter is the short throw version, just been reading up on it on Rennlist. Fair play to the first owner for speccing it, was perhaps 'brave' in the eyes of their OPC at the time!

I'm late to the party, but here is the definitive answer straight from the brochure and price list of the 997.1 (05/06). It is in german tough.





P17 sports suspension consists of lower springs, stiffer springs; coils; roll bars and comes with a mechanical LSD. You needed to have 19" wheels to order it. It is -20mm lower than the standard Carrera and -10mm lower than a PSAM car that in itself is 10mm lower.

[Filibuster]

I just checked my sticker and my very early C2 has truly very, very basic specs:

030 sports chassis (lowered -20 mm)
220 LSD with 40% lock
234 internal tyre code
342 seat heating
407 19" SportDesign wheels
435 leather steering wheel
454 automatic speed control
666 telephone module for PCM
936 leather rear seats
981 leather dashboard and door panels
983 leather front seats

So I have heated seats with extended leather (not standard in Germany or Switzerland), speed control and a 2G telephone modul (but no GPS!) and that sport suspension with LSD. It doesn't get more basic in a 997 than this

I prefer a passive suspension setup myself, as ime normal is often too soft and sport is often too stiff.
The above sports suspension is rather hard, but the OH doesn't complain, even on longer journeys.

[Filibuster]

I’m sure you all have seen this before, but it’s worth mentioning anyhow: PHer have voted the 997 to be the second best sports car of the last 25 years!

[Filibuster]

Louis Balfour said:

It's a shame the newest ones are now 11 years old.

A shame in what way? I have a very early one from October 2004, so soon to be 20 years old.

[Filibuster]

ATM said:

4S Red Strip

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115711605193

I really like the gen 2 engine cover with the red reflector. I like the Macan steering wheel also.

Not so keen on the wheels or the rear lights (hopefully just a sticker?). Both easily sorted.
I wouldn’t mind to have a Tiptronic if I was to use it for instance in London most of the time.

[Filibuster]

ATM said:

ooid said:

Just had a random browse on AT, for only 997 Carrera S.. 11 out of 121 cars had been advertised with engine rebuild of some sort.

I found this one on here. I'm not interested in the car myself but just alarming to see such a low mileage car needing a rebuild. And it is not a tip as these need rebuilding more often - or so I am led to believe.

In the blurb they dont outright say rebuild but they do say this which must mean a rebuild of some sort -

Advert Blurb said:

The car recently has had work at Hartech who have fitted a new IMS bearing and have undertaken work to remedy bore scoring, a very common issue in low mileage cars.

Is that right - lower mileage means rebuild more likely?

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14530783

It most probably depends, imo. Low mileage due to many short trips: yes
Low mileage due to only a few long trips: no

What really "kills" an engine is heat cycles. Much of the wear occurs in the warm up phase. Much less wear occurs when the engine runs in it's optimal thermal range and everything is well oiled.

Also the wear on the interior can be much worse in a low mileage car that has been dailied for only a short commute.
Getting in and out of the seats wears the bolsters, etc.

[Filibuster]

Octoposse said:

My 2007 3.6, pushing 80k on the clock, uses absolutely no oil between annual services and shows no sign of any other problems.

First owner always warmed it up properly and drove it hard. I warm it up properly and bimble along smelling the hedgerow flowers. Wouldn’t be surprised if the motor gets to 250k miles . . . and if it doesn’t I’ll get it rebuilt as a 3.9 (but, to be fair, easy for me to be blasé as it’s a few years into ownership . . . would have been a bugger in the first month or so!).

And is there any 15 year old performance car that doesn’t have a measurable statistical chance of suddenly costing you big money?

My 2005 3.6 has 110k on it's engine (210k on the chassis). It received a new engine from Porsche due to ims failure, this time with the later, bigger bearing.
It was sympathetically properly warmed by the former owner and driven hard, mostly on the german Autobahn. I treat it the same way. No oil consumption between regular (!) oil changes (Motul 5W40) in my ownership (5 years / 25k miles).

[Filibuster]

S600BSB said:

Reasonable weather and the salt has been washed away from the roads. Time to get the 997 out of hibernation for a little spin?

[Filibuster]

To quote myself from my readers car thread:

Filibuster said:

…

Now, since I have been pootling around with my new toy, the battery in the 997 went flat. In my infinite wisdom, I left the boot open
While at the garage, I had a nut welded to the last hole of the battery tray, so I could fit a bigger 353x175x190 battery.



Out with the old 315x175x175 mm Varta with 85 Ah and 800 CCA and in with the new Exide 353x175x190 mm with 100 Ah and 900 CCA.
Now the starts seems to start even before I turn the key, be it hot or cold

[Filibuster]

ATM said:

Filibuster said:

I had a nut welded to the last hole of the battery tray, so I could fit a bigger 353x175x190 battery.

I've seen those holes and just assumed all had a nut behind there already.

My early 997.1 (2004) definitely didn’t had thread/nut. Just a hohle ready for a nut to be welded to the battery tray. My mechanic welded a nut onto the tray and spray painted it all black afterwards. Looks like new and now fits those huge batteries

I know many, you included, like to fit a small, light LiPo battery. With my driving style, I don‘t mind some extra kilos and prefer old school high cca and Ah.