GT3 Touring

[seawise]

Took mine out for a spin yesterday - such a wonderful car to drive, unhinged engine matched to a sublime chassis. reminds me a lot of my old tweaked 964 RS. looks like a standard 911 to the massed ranks, but the cognoscenti get it. probably why they are achieving strong premiums over the winged car. well that and r-h-d numbers built.

also, I have tracked mine and it certainly is no slower than a winged car. yes it has less down force so moves around a bit more in the faster corners, but that makes it more fun, especially if the driver knows what they are doing.

and if you want to go faster, get some bloody instruction.

[hunter 66]

After only a few weeks the new RS has so many "comforts " that it is fine as a DD as long as in a less loud colour ...off to Le Mans on Thursday so see what the longer trip is like .... although did drive a 64 RS with cup pipe and NO stereo to Jerez and back ...

[Cheib]

v8ksn said:

Porsche911R said:

For £130k the new manual GT3 has no equals imo it’s very special, but I could easy spend £50k on it, binning seats, wheels, brakes and shocks. You can see where they cut corners to make it £130k .....I guess that’s why Porsche bought Manthey so people can tune oem style now... but as the market is about values, it not common in the UK.

I cant see how you could spend £50k on a manual 991.2 GT3 to make it a better drivers car. Clubsport spec gets you 99% of the way there.

Tuning to make the car go faster and handle better (In My Opinion) should be carried out when the owner has intimate knowledge of the vehicle and is now finding that certain handling characteristics are impacting on their enjoyment and/or making them slower round a given track, in which case they need to look at improving their driving skills first before spending money on the car.

seawise said:

and if you want to go faster, get some bloody instruction.

Completely agree about the instruction...doesn't matter whether it's driving, skiing, golf etc

People obsess about getting the right kit/best they can afford (I picked those two sports because they're massive "all the gear" sports) but 99% of the time that money spent on high quality instruction will yield superior results.

My GT3 is my first GT car....I'm taking it to the PEC for a half day of instruction next month with PCGB and am then going to sort out some proper one on one instruction. The instructor I had for my PEC GT3 day said he can get on at Milbrook which he reckons is a fantastic place for instruction. He also reckons that a half day at Bruntingthorpe is a good session for getting used to the cars capabilities at speed before taking on Silverstone. Although I've been told Bruntingthorpe is not kind to cars so might give that a miss.

Anyone done any instruction at Milbrook ?

[rosino]

Just spent approx 300 miles of pure driving pleasure in Wales over the weekend.. including 5h00 wake-up to enjoy some truly traffic-free roads.. what a joy.

I love the gearbox, love the engine.. love the approach to 9krpm where you think the engine is about to detach itself from the car.. really really enjoyed it I have to say.

I can't say that i got ANYWHERE CLOSE to the limits of the car though on public road.. roads are just too narrow and visibility often too compromise to attempt to get there.. I increasingly realise the EVO, CAR, Autocar.. &co of this world need to keep the dream alive with their stories.. but these cars will never ever get to their limits on the public road unless you drive like a proper lunatic, I just can't see myself doing that risking my life, the car's and UK notoriously unforgiving police..

But the manual gearbox gave it that kind of interaction that made it irrelevant, every gear change, timing it right.. everything came together for a great ride. Chassis is extraordinary and even on the odd occasion where i really opened it up properly even on uneven roads the car held it together impressively, nothing would faze it just soak everything up and go.. it remains harshly suspended IMHO (more so than my Speciale on Bumpy Road setting) but when it matters it will just take it all in.. really impressive.

Which brings me to the points above on driving tuition.. i think i will do a PEC day with the car.. and then see how I can get a milbrook session with somebody decent.. if you know of anybody in particular you would recommend please do let me know..

[robgt3]

rosino said:

Just spent approx 300 miles of pure driving pleasure in Wales over the weekend.. including 5h00 wake-up to enjoy some truly traffic-free roads.. what a joy.

I love the gearbox, love the engine.. love the approach to 9krpm where you think the engine is about to detach itself from the car.. really really enjoyed it I have to say.

I can't say that i got ANYWHERE CLOSE to the limits of the car though on public road.. roads are just too narrow and visibility often too compromise to attempt to get there.. I increasingly realise the EVO, CAR, Autocar.. &co of this world need to keep the dream alive with their stories.. but these cars will never ever get to their limits on the public road unless you drive like a proper lunatic, I just can't see myself doing that risking my life, the car's and UK notoriously unforgiving police..

But the manual gearbox gave it that kind of interaction that made it irrelevant, every gear change, timing it right.. everything came together for a great ride. Chassis is extraordinary and even on the odd occasion where i really opened it up properly even on uneven roads the car held it together impressively, nothing would faze it just soak everything up and go.. it remains harshly suspended IMHO (more so than my Speciale on Bumpy Road setting) but when it matters it will just take it all in.. really impressive.

Which brings me to the points above on driving tuition.. i think i will do a PEC day with the car.. and then see how I can get a milbrook session with somebody decent.. if you know of anybody in particular you would recommend please do let me know..

Speak to Ivan Thompset at Total Car Control. I did a 2 day course with him and would seriouly recommend his teaching ability. The first day is spent at Millbrook the second on the road. Two years on and his words still bounce around my head whilst driving. Tel [phone]. Plus look his company up on the net.

[Porsche911R]

luigisayshello said:

It carries the gt3 name because it is a gt3,
The touring is as a GT car as they come lol, or did you forget the meaning behind GT?

The GT3, introduced in 1999, is named after the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) Group GT3 class, in which it was designed to compete.

They should have just called the GT3 T a 911GT as it's no GT3 imo.

They did not call the 911 R a GT3 R !!!! because guess what the GT3 R is a race car.

GTS would have been the ideal, but they used it already to sell tarted up S cars :-)

not taking anything away from the car, it's just got the wrong name imo

Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 2nd July 16:18

[hunter 66]

Oddly enough not , as GT3 class only came Later and was Designated by Stephane Ratel . The FIA definition was GTN for Porsche GT3 R and RS ...will be running mine at Le Mans on the weekend
Anyway not important ...

[Porsche911R]

hunter 66 said:

Oddly enough not , as GT3 class only came Later and was Designated by Stephane Ratel . The FIA definition was GTN for Porsche GT3 R and RS ...will be running mine at Le Mans on the weekend
Anyway not important ...

Still has a wing and is race car ;-)

I just personally don't see anything GT3 about the T, but as you say not important, it's just a name I guess.

[Koln-RS]

I doubt if anyone who has a GT3 Touring could care less.
It appears to be the model that is commanding the highest after market prices.

[Dr S]

Porsche911R said:

I just personally don't see anything GT3 about the T

What about the minor thingy of an engine?

The road GT3's wing is far from the item on the race car - be it the fixed item or the retractable on the Touring

[Fokker]

hunter 66 said:

Oddly enough not , as GT3 class only came Later and was Designated by Stephane Ratel . The FIA definition was GTN for Porsche GT3 R and RS ...will be running mine at Le Mans on the weekend
Anyway not important ...

I'll be there watching

Anyone else from this thread driving over from Portsmouth to Caen on Thursday night?
We're doing the Pistonheads meet at Chateau RiveSarthe too on Friday.

If so look out for a red TVR Sagaris and a white GT4

[hunter 66]

Come over , in the Silver 996 GT3 RS ... Legends Paddock ,

[Porsche911R]

Koln-RS said:

I doubt if anyone who has a GT3 Touring could care less.
It appears to be the model that is commanding the highest after market prices.

why does values have anything to do with it ?

I am not taking away anything from the T(ok I might later) I just think it's not a GT3 by name due to what GT3 stands for in Porsche, a race car for the road, the T is not that, it's def a GTS, but they already used that name, so it was tricky I guess, but it's no GT3 is it ?

The T back in the day was a poor car, they say less is more for marketing, but less was really less in the T models a cheaper car to aid sales.
It does in fact now share it's name with Porsche new base model T !!

So it's a lesser car, lacks the down force and the RAM air !!! I guess if you are really after understated appearance then it hits that mark.

I have always said if the T had rear seats then it might make some sort of sense to pick it over a GT3 full fat, but picking a lesser car imo is an odd move if you want the GT3 badge.

So while I love what GT3 has always stood for even though race cars make bad roads cars, I love the concept of the GT3, it's iconic. the GT3 T now looks like the base model in the line up ! when it should be looking like the race car for the road.

Only imo of course, and it's only a name so who cares, If people are paying £85k overs for a lesser car then so be it.

For me this is the GT3, and I want a bit of that in my road car. The T well it's always been the low rent cars in the line up, it is what it is I guess.

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 3rd July 09:58

[Geneve]

That's a very confusing post


The 'Touring' is a GT3, the 'T' is a variant of the base 991 - very different cars.

[isaldiri]

Porsche911R said:

due to what GT3 stands for in Porsche, a race car for the road,
]

funny how anyone still believes this. In the 996 gt3 perhaps and it's been bashed by you all the time for that exact reason. The 991 is miles away from any of Porsche's motorsport cars.

[Porsche911R]

Geneve said:

That's a very confusing post


The 'Touring' is a GT3, the 'T' is a variant of the base 991 - very different cars.

Porsche named both cars the T, Porsche press release show both cars together for marketing.

Porsche is confusing things not me and now saying less is more, but when the T was released in 1967 less was less to sell cars cheaper.

To quote said press release:

"Porsche 911 Carrera T and 911 GT3 with Touring Package:

Porsche is returning to the Monte Carlo Rally. Two new model variants of the 911, dedicated to pure
driving pleasure, will visit the exact spots where the classic sports car celebrated its first international
racing success almost exactly 50 years ago: In 1968, British drivers Vic Elford and David Stone
secured the first victory for Porsche in the “queen of rallies” at the wheel of a 911 T. This was
followed up by three further wins. An excellent weight-to-power ratio, the inherently superior
traction of the rear engine sports car and its exceptional reliability were the keys to success back
then. And these are the characteristics that still distinguish the 911 to this day, particularly in the new
911 Carrera T and 911 GT3 models with Touring Package. Because both follow the same purist
approach: less is more."

[seawise]

Porsche911R said:

I am not taking away anything from the T(ok I might later) I just think it's not a GT3 by name due to what GT3 stands for in Porsche, a race car for the road, the T is not that, it's def a GTS, but they already used that name, so it was tricky I guess, but it's no GT3 is it ?

The T back in the day was a poor car, they say less is more for marketing, but less was really less in the T models a cheaper car to aid sales.
It does in fact now share it's name with Porsche new base model T !!

So it's a lesser car, lacks the down force and the RAM air !!! I guess if you are really after understated appearance then it hits that mark.

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 3rd July 09:58

you don't half talk a load of nonsense sometimes - it's not call the GT3 T, it's a GT3 with the 'touring option pack'. the only bloody difference is the lack of rear spoiler and some interior leather rather than alcantara. you come across like a one man mission banging on about something no one agrees with you about, making up your agenda as you go on.

you don't like the 'touring option', ok, fair enough, but stop banging on about it on a thread that celebrates this choice. no one has to justify their choice to you, and you don't to others either.

and to say the 991 GT3 is a race car for the road is utter twaddle - as others have pointed out, the 996 GT3/RS might have been the closest, but since 2004 the road and race variants have become more and more disparate.

[Porsche911R]

isaldiri said:

funny how anyone still believes this. In the 996 gt3 perhaps and it's been bashed by you all the time for that exact reason. The 991 is miles away from any of Porsche's motorsport cars.

my car looks more like the one above than the 911 GT3 T.

GT3's are boys poster cars. I own every Model RS as I love what the GT3 stands for even if past cars have not made the best roads cars, Porsche still made them which is great, yes I bought a 996 GT3 and did not get on with it for the road, but the lust was there for years and years, yes the new 991 GT3 Full fat, is a far nicer road car now than any past GT3 hence I have waited and waited to get back into a GT3, but I still wanted that Badge to mean something, The iconic GT3. I was hoping the GT4 would be the dream car, GT3 looks with the wing etc etc but it's just never set any thing alight for me, you know that more than most.

Now I have a GT3 which works great on the road and in this day and age it's has a bloody gear stick with as last shorter ratio's, it has a wing like that race car, a cage like that race car, a fire extinguisher, full harness's, the cage pings over bumps, the Ram air sucks air into that 500hp NA engine, the wing offers down force if you dare to take the car to it's limits, the whole thing just gives me a hard on ;-)

It's one of the best ever cars I have driven while being 100% usable, it's an amazing car. to a point I have 3 cars up for sale to allow me to keep the GT3.

The GT3 T well it's just a lesser understated car (Porsches words) maybe just too "understated" to carry the GT3 name imo.

[isaldiri]

Porsche911R said:

yes the new 991 GT3 Full fat, is a far nicer road car now than any past GT3 hence I have waited and waited to get back into a GT3, but I still wanted that Badge to mean something, The iconic GT3.

Now I have a GT3 which works great on the road and in this day and age it's has a bloody gear stick with as last shorter ratio's, it has a wing like that race car, a cage like that race car, a fire extinguisher, full harness's, the cage pings over bumps, the Ram air sucks air into that 500hp NA engine, the wing offers down force if you dare to take the car to it's limits,

The badge might actually mean something more related to racing than marketing tat if it was actually a less good road car. The new gt3 is an excellent road car but the attempt to link it to the racing as more than marketing is hilarious.

And your car doesn't have 'a wing like that race car' or 'a cage like that race car'. It has a rear wing and half a cage. Find me a Cup car that has such a puny rear wing and/or without a front cage first perhaps?

And tmi with regards to what gives you a hard on.....

Edited by isaldiri on Tuesday 3rd July 10:46

[Porsche911R]

seawise said:

you don't half talk a load of nonsense sometimes - it's not call the GT3 T, it's a GT3 with the 'touring option pack'. the only bloody difference is the lack of rear spoiler and some interior leather rather than alcantara. you come across like a one man mission banging on about something no one agrees with you about, making up your agenda as you go on.

you don't like the 'touring option', ok, fair enough, but stop banging on about it on a thread that celebrates this choice. no one has to justify their choice to you, and you don't to others either.

and to say the 991 GT3 is a race car for the road is utter twaddle - as others have pointed out, the 996 GT3/RS might have been the closest, but since 2004 the road and race variants have become more and more disparate.

That's your view point, I have mine, don't let it upset you ;-) I accept yours as it's just your opinion and you will have different reasons to pick a car over mine. If no one agrees with me that's good :-) I knew what I wanted to order 18 months before hand, I did not make 50 posts on "what spec shall I get" I wanted an Iconic looking GT3 in manual.

I did laugh out loud even on your 1st line though:

"it's not call the GT3 T, it's a GT3 with the 'touring option pack'" protective or what ;-) it's a GT3 T ffs it's carries the badge on the back.
or will you put a load of stickers on it saying "GT3 with the 'touring option pack' down the side ? any way that one line was worth my post lol made my day already thanks.

PS the GT3 full fat also has the RAM air just to pick you up on things missing :-p if you want to get picky.