GT3 2018 Allocations
Discussion
Vipergreen said:
Better go and hack saw my wing off
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Crap pictures, delusional price....https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
IREvans said:
Vipergreen said:
Better go and hack saw my wing off
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Crap pictures, delusional price....https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Cheib said:
s2000db said:
Wow! What’s that £250k including commission ? Okay there will be a premium for RHD but that’s a lot lower than they have been. Ornaments at current levels, circa £350. Can’t drive them as mileage muders them, and market realising they are trinkets so as investments, cooling. If ever there was a falling knife, it’s this model. For me they are at £250, max.
Steve Rance said:
Porsche911R said:
I wish, have you done it on the new calipers, it's not a quick or easy job now esp with centre lock wheels.
I agree nothing wrong with the steels for road use, but you have to fit £1k pads that makes more heat and they then crack from the holes on the chocolate disks, and then will damage your calipers pucks , so a full set of AP disks and pads later you are at £6k and have 2 sets of ******* calipers lol ! Makes specing PCCB seem cheap imo.
No surprise to see most track day cars go after market, so to say Porsche brakes are the best is a bit misleading. The disks are crap, the old PCCB delamited after 6k miles and the new calipers are just hassle now.
Let’s not even get into the ceramic puck issue if one does fit track pads !!
All very substandard imo.
You won’t see the GT4 clubsport using the road stuff.
People think the steels are for track, but they cannot take any heat.
I've never been let down by standard steel brakes on the track in any 911GT car. Alcon or Brembo options dont stop the car any quicker but they last a lot longer. Anyone not getting confidence in braking on steels has generally not bedded them in properly, especially the softer road pads. You should be getting a lot of feel. Too much initial bite is not great on the track, the initial application is better if its smoother. In my 997 cup, often there is smoke - sometimes fire - coming from the front caliper area after coming into the pits. Never had any problems except with one caliper that needed a rebuild after over 100 hours. The rebuild cost was £75. I agree nothing wrong with the steels for road use, but you have to fit £1k pads that makes more heat and they then crack from the holes on the chocolate disks, and then will damage your calipers pucks , so a full set of AP disks and pads later you are at £6k and have 2 sets of ******* calipers lol ! Makes specing PCCB seem cheap imo.
No surprise to see most track day cars go after market, so to say Porsche brakes are the best is a bit misleading. The disks are crap, the old PCCB delamited after 6k miles and the new calipers are just hassle now.
Let’s not even get into the ceramic puck issue if one does fit track pads !!
All very substandard imo.
You won’t see the GT4 clubsport using the road stuff.
People think the steels are for track, but they cannot take any heat.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 10th April 22:05
Silverstone on Wednesday was treacherous. I counted 14 red flags. That really compromises a cool down for ceramic discs - especially if you are near the complex when the red flags come out. There were a lot of GT3's there. I felt for the drivers, it must of been stressful cooling down thier discs. One chap had an off on the mud and gravel. Unfortunately - and I'm sure unknowingly - liberally spreading mud and gravel all over the racing line on his way back to the pits. If any of that material got lodged in his discs, it would have been a very bad day out if they were ceramic.
With steels, none of this is an issue. I get ceramics from a road point of view. They are relatively cheap as a new option - but for the track, absolutely not - unless you have a very big budget
If you removed the BS from this thread we would be left with about 3 pages of actual facts.
The Ceramic brakes issue gets lots of opinions and BS.
The general consensus, as I understand it, is that they have several benefits that are worthwhile for road use, but for extensive track use, aftermarket steels may make more sense.
However, on a premium sports GT, many people will expect them.
The general consensus, as I understand it, is that they have several benefits that are worthwhile for road use, but for extensive track use, aftermarket steels may make more sense.
However, on a premium sports GT, many people will expect them.
I think the only buyers who are willing to pay a substantial premium(ie well in excess of new PCCB price) for PCCBs on the used market, are the same ones willing to pay a substantial premium on the car itself...Punters who refuse to pay over RRP for a used car will invariably refuse to pay over the RRP for PCCBs...
Unless you fit Surface Transform carbon discs.
Solid long fibre carbon. Cool much better than the laminated PCCB's. The pads last forever ... Skimmable up to five times if they do get damaged. Even running the pads down the the metal is not fatal.
And all the unsprung weight advantages that you lose with steels ... although I accept that wheel and tyre weigh becomes critical ...
Solid long fibre carbon. Cool much better than the laminated PCCB's. The pads last forever ... Skimmable up to five times if they do get damaged. Even running the pads down the the metal is not fatal.
And all the unsprung weight advantages that you lose with steels ... although I accept that wheel and tyre weigh becomes critical ...
Koln-RS said:
The Ceramic brakes issue gets lots of opinions and BS.
The general consensus, as I understand it, is that they have several benefits that are worthwhile for road use, but for extensive track use, aftermarket steels may make more sense.
However, on a premium sports GT, many people will expect them.
A good set up after market will cost more than the PCCB option from new though.The general consensus, as I understand it, is that they have several benefits that are worthwhile for road use, but for extensive track use, aftermarket steels may make more sense.
However, on a premium sports GT, many people will expect them.
we cannot talk CUP cars or the GT4 CS vs the modern GT3 and GT4 , they don't weigh as much and the latter don't even use the road items !!!
ALso racing teams will bin the disks, pads and fluid after every race day, the track day goer will not be changing out disks, pads and fluid after a track day.
Heats a killer, hence we see cracked disks, but weight is a killer also as it makes more heat, and with the modern 1500kg road car on oem calipers, fitting a set of tracks pads is not the correct way to go sorry to say. again unlike CUP cars, the end user will NOT fit new pads every track day, so the pads wear uneven due to the design and the ceramic pucks snap and the disks last about 4 track days ! add that to RS29's pads that's a big bill every few track days.
Nothin new here, an after Market set up which works would cost £10k and would pay you back over time if you tracked all the time.
some thing like the AP Racing Radi-CAL is a nice unit and used by the touring cars, designed to resist heat and very light with hollow solid pistons.
as for the new PCCB, people will get 4000 track miles these days on the modern PCCB's , you got nothing like that in the 997 PCCB cars.
Most do 100 track miles on a relaxed event that's 40 track days for the £6k outlay if you spec from new. that's cheap braking imo for a 200 mph road car weighing at 1500kg all in.
I don't think there is any BS around any of the systems, just a bit of misunderstanding what's available and what's out there.
I have cracked ceramic pucks before it's a pitter as you cannot get them, (no idea why) I picked up some used ones from a race team free as it happens.
But most times it's a set of new calipers needed !!
It's no shock the GT4 race cars does not use the road system !!! but don't try and make a road system into a track hack by fitting RS29's but having every thing else stock !! (but that's what people do and I feel sorry for the 2nd owners of these tracked cars as the calipers will be f
ked)
Cheib said:
May for Europe/UK. US buyers on Rennlist seem confident they’re getting cars after the factory comes back on line.
Basically since the GT3 production is coming to an end,Porsche quite rightly IMO see no point in going to the expense to add the new Particulate filter..As a very hopeful new RS owner i hope Porsche don't take the same stance with this car..
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Exactly this..! I see no issues with the Speedster as they could utilise the RS motor with an acceptable 500 Ps...The confusion IMV surrounds the RS's engine which is rated at 520 PS..TBH if the RS's post Particulate filter is in some way compromised then i'll have to think very hard on whether or not i chop in my much loved GT3 to secure it..First world problems and all that..
Taffy66 said:
Exactly this..! I see no issues with the Speedster as they could utilise the RS motor with an acceptable 500 Ps...The confusion IMV surrounds the RS's engine which is rated at 520 PS..
TBH if the RS's post Particulate filter is in some way compromised then i'll have to think very hard on whether or not i chop in my much loved GT3 to secure it..First world problems and all that..
Dyno's are showing the GT3's way above 500BHP hence why it left the 991.1 GT3 for dead and the manual kept up with a 991 Turbo STBH if the RS's post Particulate filter is in some way compromised then i'll have to think very hard on whether or not i chop in my much loved GT3 to secure it..First world problems and all that..
in a drag race, Manuals also faster then the PDK due to less Parasitic loss and of course weighs less.
so 500/520bhp who cares we have 550BHP :-) GT2 RS also way above the spec on the dyno's
also done a track day in another GT3 and the cars keeps up with 600BHP Speciale 458 on the straights !!!! so it has to have way more than 500BHp
Porsche911R said:
Dyno's are showing the GT3's way above 500BHP hence why it left the 991.1 GT3 for dead and the manual kept up with a 991 Turbo S
in a drag race, Manuals also faster then the PDK due to less Parasitic loss and of course weighs less.
so 500/520bhp who cares we have 550BHP :-) GT2 RS also way above the spec on the dyno's
also done a track day in another GT3 and the cars keeps up with 600BHP Speciale 458 on the straights !!!! so it has to have way more than 500BHp
...plus you are assuming the fezza has the horses it claims to have in a drag race, Manuals also faster then the PDK due to less Parasitic loss and of course weighs less.
so 500/520bhp who cares we have 550BHP :-) GT2 RS also way above the spec on the dyno's
also done a track day in another GT3 and the cars keeps up with 600BHP Speciale 458 on the straights !!!! so it has to have way more than 500BHp
LaSource said:
Porsche911R said:
Dyno's are showing the GT3's way above 500BHP hence why it left the 991.1 GT3 for dead and the manual kept up with a 991 Turbo S
in a drag race, Manuals also faster then the PDK due to less Parasitic loss and of course weighs less.
so 500/520bhp who cares we have 550BHP :-) GT2 RS also way above the spec on the dyno's
also done a track day in another GT3 and the cars keeps up with 600BHP Speciale 458 on the straights !!!! so it has to have way more than 500BHp
...plus you are assuming the fezza has the horses it claims to have in a drag race, Manuals also faster then the PDK due to less Parasitic loss and of course weighs less.
so 500/520bhp who cares we have 550BHP :-) GT2 RS also way above the spec on the dyno's
also done a track day in another GT3 and the cars keeps up with 600BHP Speciale 458 on the straights !!!! so it has to have way more than 500BHp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ojd4BrHZS0
Porsche911R said:
Dyno's are showing the GT3's way above 500BHP hence why it left the 991.1 GT3 for dead and the manual kept up with a 991 Turbo S
in a drag race, Manuals also faster then the PDK due to less Parasitic loss and of course weighs less.
so 500/520bhp who cares we have 550BHP :-) GT2 RS also way above the spec on the dyno's
also done a track day in another GT3 and the cars keeps up with 600BHP Speciale 458 on the straights !!!! so it has to have way more than 500BHp
I'm very sceptical about that gt3 vs turbo video ,having driven both ,but Where is a manual faster than a pdk ? I would find that astonishing ,there are numerous examples of identical 911s being raced one with pdk... one with manual and the pdk always wins easily .in a drag race, Manuals also faster then the PDK due to less Parasitic loss and of course weighs less.
so 500/520bhp who cares we have 550BHP :-) GT2 RS also way above the spec on the dyno's
also done a track day in another GT3 and the cars keeps up with 600BHP Speciale 458 on the straights !!!! so it has to have way more than 500BHp
franki68 said:
I'm very sceptical about that gt3 vs turbo video ,having driven both ,but Where is a manual faster than a pdk ? I would find that astonishing ,there are numerous examples of identical 911s being raced one with pdk... one with manual and the pdk always wins easily .
The only time the manual is quicker than the PDK is its 1mph higher top speed..Mr D is referring to the PDK makes less WHP than the manual due to supposedly higher Internal losses with the twin clutch gearbox..However this is more than offset by the 5% lower gearing in the PDK due to its slightly lower final drive ratio..The gearing is even lower in gears 5 and 6 due to an extra gear..
Out of interest does anyone know what the PDK's parasitic losses are compared to the manual.?....
I think its probably incremental as the latest dual clutches are super efficient compared to the old Torque converter boxes..
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