997 gt3 or gt4
Discussion
Ernie321 said:
As title out of the 2 cars 997 gt3 or cayman gt4 which car would be the best to buy for around 85 k
1 weekend car
2 future value ( very important )
3 most fun
All comments good or bad welcomed
Had both. GT3 wins on points 1, 2, and 3. Only prob is finding a good GT3 as owners know what they have and are keeping hold of them. Nothing bad to say about the GT4 - huge value / fun at £80k.1 weekend car
2 future value ( very important )
3 most fun
All comments good or bad welcomed
Subject of keen interest to me atm.
I'm really itching to try the mid-engine balance of the GT4 but most people suggest it would be better to keep the 997.2 GT3 I'm lucky enough to have.
I guess some of the temptation is having something new and different, and I know the engine in the '3 is a very special thing indeed and one that isn't quite replicated in the '4. But Porsche never fails to progress their design and engineering as time moves on, so dynamically I'm sure the GT4 is at least a match for the 997 especially on track and in the hands of a 'normal punter' like me. Need to drive one to make that call for sure though which I haven't yet.
So in short I agree with the others - 911 a bit more special for weekend only use, and certainly more solid future value wise, with the GT4 offering a more modern proposition for repeated track work, but perhaps not at the over-list prices that most are still at right now.
Can't really go wrong either way tho' from an ownership experience, so do it!!
I'm really itching to try the mid-engine balance of the GT4 but most people suggest it would be better to keep the 997.2 GT3 I'm lucky enough to have.
I guess some of the temptation is having something new and different, and I know the engine in the '3 is a very special thing indeed and one that isn't quite replicated in the '4. But Porsche never fails to progress their design and engineering as time moves on, so dynamically I'm sure the GT4 is at least a match for the 997 especially on track and in the hands of a 'normal punter' like me. Need to drive one to make that call for sure though which I haven't yet.
So in short I agree with the others - 911 a bit more special for weekend only use, and certainly more solid future value wise, with the GT4 offering a more modern proposition for repeated track work, but perhaps not at the over-list prices that most are still at right now.
Can't really go wrong either way tho' from an ownership experience, so do it!!
Fl0pp3r said:
Subject of keen interest to me atm.
I'm really itching to try the mid-engine balance of the GT4 but most people suggest it would be better to keep the 997.2 GT3 I'm lucky enough to have.
I guess some of the temptation is having something new and different, and I know the engine in the '3 is a very special thing indeed and one that isn't quite replicated in the '4. But Porsche never fails to progress their design and engineering as time moves on, so dynamically I'm sure the GT4 is at least a match for the 997 especially on track and in the hands of a 'normal punter' like me. Need to drive one to make that call for sure though which I haven't yet.
So in short I agree with the others - 911 a bit more special for weekend only use, and certainly more solid future value wise, with the GT4 offering a more modern proposition for repeated track work, but perhaps not at the over-list prices that most are still at right now.
Can't really go wrong either way tho' from an ownership experience, so do it!!
I found the GT4 to be same pace (within half a second) as a well setup 996 GT3 CS - both in my hands on the same track on the same day on the same tyres.I'm really itching to try the mid-engine balance of the GT4 but most people suggest it would be better to keep the 997.2 GT3 I'm lucky enough to have.
I guess some of the temptation is having something new and different, and I know the engine in the '3 is a very special thing indeed and one that isn't quite replicated in the '4. But Porsche never fails to progress their design and engineering as time moves on, so dynamically I'm sure the GT4 is at least a match for the 997 especially on track and in the hands of a 'normal punter' like me. Need to drive one to make that call for sure though which I haven't yet.
So in short I agree with the others - 911 a bit more special for weekend only use, and certainly more solid future value wise, with the GT4 offering a more modern proposition for repeated track work, but perhaps not at the over-list prices that most are still at right now.
Can't really go wrong either way tho' from an ownership experience, so do it!!
I expect in order to extract more from the GT4 will require a few mods - suspension possibly, engine power upgrade (intake, exhaust, map), and/or possibly gearing.
Personally I enjoyed the on circuit feedback and experience of the GT3 more than the GT4 and hence retained the GT3 over the GT4. If using them only for the road then the GT4 will be more suitable for most road users.
If I already had a 997 GT3, I wouldn’t swap out of it into a GT4. Especially if it was a 997.2.
If coming in cold.... for the kind of money...I’d probably want the newer car with less miles on, would stick in my craw to spend 85k on something at only sports car level that already has had 3 or 4 owners, and also could be up to 10years old..... so that’s where the GT4 is a great proposition as entry to GT cars.
As to your criteria
1 - Draw.... both have presence, cool and kerb appeal.
2 - Depends on the duration you are thinking of.....
3 - I think... GT4 - fun will be more accessible more easily on the road and track.
If coming in cold.... for the kind of money...I’d probably want the newer car with less miles on, would stick in my craw to spend 85k on something at only sports car level that already has had 3 or 4 owners, and also could be up to 10years old..... so that’s where the GT4 is a great proposition as entry to GT cars.
As to your criteria
1 - Draw.... both have presence, cool and kerb appeal.
2 - Depends on the duration you are thinking of.....
3 - I think... GT4 - fun will be more accessible more easily on the road and track.
Edited by TDT on Monday 16th October 00:02
Edited by TDT on Monday 16th October 00:06
Fl0pp3r said:
I'm really itching to try the mid-engine balance of the GT4 but most people suggest it would be better to keep the 997.2 GT3 I'm lucky enough to have.
I guess some of the temptation is having something new and different, and I know the engine in the '3 is a very special thing indeed and one that isn't quite replicated in the '4. But Porsche never fails to progress their design and engineering as time moves on, so dynamically I'm sure the GT4 is at least a match for the 997 especially on track and in the hands of a 'normal punter' like me. Need to drive one to make that call for sure though which I haven't yet.
While I agree it isn't entirely clearcut laptimes wise on the same tyre, especially in the hands of an amateur driver like myself, just for driving experience and feel, imo the 7.1gt3 is already the better car over the gt4 and the 7.2 is very much the better one.I guess some of the temptation is having something new and different, and I know the engine in the '3 is a very special thing indeed and one that isn't quite replicated in the '4. But Porsche never fails to progress their design and engineering as time moves on, so dynamically I'm sure the GT4 is at least a match for the 997 especially on track and in the hands of a 'normal punter' like me. Need to drive one to make that call for sure though which I haven't yet.
isaldiri said:
While I agree it isn't entirely clearcut laptimes wise on the same tyre, especially in the hands of an amateur driver like myself, just for driving experience and feel, imo the 7.1gt3 is already the better car over the gt4 and the 7.2 is very much the better one.
better in what way ?The Cayman GT4 can lap as same as a 997.2 car with less BHP as it is.
The sus system is better, the engine more suited to the road, the clutch lighter, the torque is in a better rev range etc etc. hence Porsche keep finding a way to bring torque to GT3's and the engine more forward time after time on a flawed understeering layout and now have added RWS to sort it out.
Better is subjective as Caymans imo have always had better steering feel and less understeer than any 911, but the GT4 does have EPS, the PASM system and electronics far better in the GT4 also.
The GT3 engine is great but way over hyped for a road car use due to the nature of the engine, it really does not suit B road blasting imo, but would live on a Spa track day and be amazing.
Both cars are lacking imo and both are not really weekend only toys, Lotus, Caterham, Atom have that weekend use in spades over a Porker of any model.
PASM on the 997.1 and the 997.2 cars is unforgivable imo it's the 1st thing I would swap out it should have never been on those 2 cars.
So a "better " car is very hard to pinpoint as it depends on use and what you expect, I find any model of GT3 frustrating as you cannot get the best from them or that engine in the UK, GT4 also Frustrating but in other ways. If I could have some trick passive shocks on a 997.2 and I lived in Europe I would be looking at a 997.2 with mods, In the UK a GT4 feels a better product imo, I was shocked how solid and GT like the GT4 was over a 981 GTS.
both would gain/be far better cars with £10k choice upgrades, but then the UK market is very negative on upgrades, the issue is if you look at cost only, would I take a GT4 with 430BHP and some trick shocks over a standard 997.2 GT3 ! that's a tough one.
For a week end only car I would be in my Spyder or A Lotus 380 Sport or a air cooler Porker, not a GT4 or a GT3 anyway.
kev.RS said:
Has to be the GT3 purely for the engine and the feeling of it.
Remember the 997 has gone up to £80k+ because it is special whereas the GT4 prices are falling rapidly as have been overlist since launch.
I would not say falling rapidly lol, they are above list ! as always you can buy a cheaper car with 20k miles on it.Remember the 997 has gone up to £80k+ because it is special whereas the GT4 prices are falling rapidly as have been overlist since launch.
But the same nice spec cars seem the same money.
kev.RS said:
Has to be the GT3 purely for the engine and the feeling of it.
Remember the 997 has gone up to £80k+ because it is special whereas the GT4 prices are falling rapidly as have been overlist since launch.
Plus, with regard to the OP's critera #2, numbers produced/for sale comes into it. Local OPC had 3 GT4s, line astern in the showroom last time I was there.Remember the 997 has gone up to £80k+ because it is special whereas the GT4 prices are falling rapidly as have been overlist since launch.
kev.RS said:
Has to be the GT3 purely for the engine and the feeling of it.
Remember the 997 has gone up to £80k+ because it is special whereas the GT4 prices are falling rapidly as have been overlist since launch.
997 GT3s dropped in value when new - it's only in the recent few years that we've seen a climate of appreciation on older cars and premiums on newer ones.Remember the 997 has gone up to £80k+ because it is special whereas the GT4 prices are falling rapidly as have been overlist since launch.
Values aside, it's what the OP wants from the car and that needs a few test drives.
The GT4 would have the advantage of being near new and still under original warranty.
Ernie321 said:
...
1 weekend car
2 future value ( very important )
3 most fun
All comments good or bad welcomed
My answers.....1 weekend car
2 future value ( very important )
3 most fun
All comments good or bad welcomed
1 - You need to try both. Both are very capable and appeal to different wants/desires/needs/drivers
2 - I think the 997 GT3 will retain more of its value in the future but probably only if you dont drive it! I think both cars will lose value the more you drive them.
3 - Again, only you can answer that with a test drive of both
I personally own a 997.1 GT3 and I much prefer it over the mid-engined feel of the GT4.
Both are amazing cars, you cant really go wrong with either one.
Better? The GT4 is the 'better' car. It's more modern, just as fast and capable, has mod cons, better electronic systems, easier to live with and so on. Downsides are the engine doesn't scream at the top end, the gearing is a trifle long and it just feels like a very good 'normal' car.
That's where the 997 GT3 is much more special. It vibrates, tingles, chatters and has a tactility the GT4 can't get near. The engine screams into life in the last 1000rpm. The chassis needs mastering. The steering is MILES better than the GT4 EPAS. But then owning it will mean using it less often, worrying about it a bit more and it's age. It's worse on the motorway. And so on.
People prefer either depending on what's important to them.
That's where the 997 GT3 is much more special. It vibrates, tingles, chatters and has a tactility the GT4 can't get near. The engine screams into life in the last 1000rpm. The chassis needs mastering. The steering is MILES better than the GT4 EPAS. But then owning it will mean using it less often, worrying about it a bit more and it's age. It's worse on the motorway. And so on.
People prefer either depending on what's important to them.
Pookster said:
The GT4 Downsides, the gearing is a trifle long and it just feels like a very good 'normal' car.
.
gearing is just as long in the GT3 with less Torque available at 4k vs the GT4 ;-).
It's VERY hard to get to see that last 1000 rpm which makes the GT3 and hence it's a frustrating car in many respects.
most of my drives were, "it's coming , it's coming, it's coming, f
k I need to brake" and repeat, unlike a 600BHP turbo monster where you can dabble in the power, it's takes a long bit of road to hit the magic numbers in 3rd gear in the GT3 and hence I could not buy another.GT4 feels far from normal lol go try a basic Merc :-) . but yes the GT3 feels more "hardcore" but not hardcore enough to be a weekend only car at £85k sitting about.
Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 16th October 18:46
Porsche911R said:
better in what way ?
....and various stuff...
With regards to your question 'better in what way', I'll reiterate my previous post - as far as driving experience and feel are concerned, to me the 7gt3 is way better than the gt4 and Pookster's description of the gt4 isn't a bad one I reckon.....and various stuff...
I don't particularly want to get involved into the rest of your post but suffice to say I disagree with most of your long winded essay and given what I personally look for in a car is very different from you, there's little point in going further into detail of exactly why especially as it's been gone over again and again.... and again by others. That said, you are of course entitled to your opinion and if you who seemingly want a car with an engine with characteristics of a turbo diesel with lots of torque at 4k rpm and not needing/wanting to rev it out very much and cannot or will not learn to drive a rear engined car properly, that's also your choice.
Porsche911R said:
I would not say falling rapidly lol, they are above list ! as always you can buy a cheaper car with 20k miles on it.
But the same nice spec cars seem the same money.
Apologies as I didn’t explain it clearlyBut the same nice spec cars seem the same money.
I meant that the GT3 has gone up to £80k+ from £50k ish in 2008 for the reason that it is rare and a special model.
As a few have said the GT3 is very mileage sensitive so I would personally buy one with early 20k’s and do a few miles and maybe take a view in a couple of years if it is still around 30k miles.
I drove a GT4 and was surprised how unwow it was in a straight line compared to the GT3 as I did expect it to be faster.
I didn’t get the chance to drive it on a spirited drive through some twisties or on a track so can’t comment on that.
With regard the prices of GT4’s I was just surprised when I had a look today and see the white 600 mile car with PCCB up at £84k which I am sure you will agree would have been £10k more a couple of months ago.
Prices dropped going into last winter when the first GT4 went under £80k but jumped back up going into the spring but I think this time round there are more GT4’s for sale this year which is obviously driving prices down.
Both cars will have their pros and cons but I think at the end of the day you need to get some good time in them and have a good drive as they are both outstanding cars in their own right.
Everything imho so don’t mean for anyone to take offence.
woollyjoe said:
Lastly - nothing about GT4 feel normal - you must daily drive race cars to feel this way.
I disagree with you and agree with Pookster. The GT4 to me felt like a well sorted 'regular' Cayman, which is exactly what it is, with a very average engine.In comparison the GT3s I've driven all felt far more different to the cooking 911s - much more race car and alive and therefore they felt more special to me. Probably mostly down to the engine as to me it's the most important thing in a car.
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