Anyone for ‘T’
Discussion
boringbeige said:
Nick981 said:
boringbeige said:
I have both and can assure you that the T and the GTS are quite different, more so than you d think...
Please could you expand on this?However GTS 991s are very spec sensitive. I had a 991.1 for a year and hated it; then figured out why, so sold it and bought another 991.1 GTS with a different spec and love it. I bought a 991.2 GTS to the same spec as my second 991.1 GTS and hated that too, so sold it and kept my second 991.1.
I've had manual and pdk 991.1 GTS's and imo the engine suits the pdk better. And I almost hate myself for admitting that.
I've had ceramics and steels and think the steels are better on a GTS.
Speccing the 18 way seats brings a more user friendly set of seating/steering/memory options but this is a heavy option, for those that worry about such things.
The glass panoramic sunroof completey f
ks up the GTS chassis....they are built to ride higher and softer...only a bit but enough to feel. Also the body stiffness is less, enough to notice. Loads of people spec the panoramic cos it certainly looks good but it stops the GTS being as 'sporty' as it should be. The entire glass roof is only loosely bonded in, to avoid it getting stressed or twisted which might crack it.NEVER SPEC A GTS WITH A PANORAMIC ROOF.
My T rides 10mm higher than my GTS and I can feel this from the driving position and the c-o-g.
My T rides firmer than my GTS, I feel more pot holes and cats eyes in my T.
The brakes on my T lack the 'grab' of the brakes on my GTS. They are both steel. The discs on my T are actually nearly 15mm larger but the calipers have 4 pots and on my GTS they are 6 pots. My GTS has better braking.
Both interiors are equally nice places to be. I have the full GTS interior and the full T interior.
The T is about as quick as the GTS despite being 60bhp down. They both put very similar numbers on the dial.
The T has noticeably more low rev shove.
The T has noticeably less high rev shove.
The T does 'come on song' at 5k revs and to give it some credit it is a brilliant engine, but imo it doesnt match the character or reach of the GTS engine.
The manual box in the T is excellent in the first 5 gears but shockingly s
t once past that. It's not the mechanical quality of the gearchange that s the problem. It's trying to put the bloody stick in the right bloody hole . Coming down the box from 7th or 6th I double de clutch. And that s ridiculous in 2018.The T feels heavier at the back than my GTS. The fore/aft weight distribution is different.
The T is a bit narrower, enough to be noticeable on smaller lanes.
Here's an analogy for you: Picture a man walking a tight rope - my GTS feels like a tight rope walker holding his arms out wide and my T feels like a tight rope walker with his hands in his pockets. One is making it look easy with minimal body movement and effort. The other is working much harder to achieve the same level of balance. That's how these cars feel, the pasm on the T has to work much harder to maintain the level of control I ask for.
As is usual with Porsche sports cars (specced as the engineers would want, not as the marketing team or salesman would want) both of these cars feel great when driven steady, then feel not quite so great (enough to pick faults) when driven briskly or even quite fast; but then if you go quicker still, then even quicker, then really really hard - and they become brilliant. imo better than any GT car, except maybe for the 997.1 RS. for the road that is.
On the kind of roads we have in rural UK, poor surfaces covered in cow s
t and leaves, potholes, random cambers, pronounced crowns, narrow, crumbling edges in our kind of miserable weather - I can drive these cars to a level where other makes of cars I've had have broken. These feel fine and ready for more. After some drives I have been genuinely astounded by how much punishment these cars can take. The engineering is hugely impressive and i think it's such a shame that many owners will never know that.
If I had to pick just one of these tho, to keep as a road car, it would be my GTS. The T is very close to it tho.
I would rather have my T than a 991.2 GTS.
Anything else ...?
The suspension is 10mm higher but firmer? The discs on the T are bigger than the .2 gts but 4pot? These are things i was not aware of.
I test drove the S before getting the GTS and was surprised at how much better the GTS was from the incremental changes.
I completely agree regarding speccing 911 a GTS is far from a a GTS a 2wd coupe with buckets is vastly different to an awd targa.
My initial post was simply from an objective pov the gts offers a lot more performance objectively with the widebody so what is it the T offers as the weight savings are imo cosmetic... your post did not really cover that as the comparison was vs a .1 gts and the .2 was dismissed as something you hated without explanation.
From my pov the .2 gts 2wd pdk with buckets remains the most exciting car porsche makes this side of gt cars - i had a 997 gt3 a while and i prefer the gts to that actually as its simply far more potent while retaining driver involvement (but i miss the manual sometimes) and so i wondered is the T something more than meets the eye
detee said:
That is interesting, I suspect anyone with a car under a year old will start getting calls from their OPC when the weather gets warmer. I just bought a Cayenne and was asked if my 991.2 manual GTS was for sale...
OPCs won't be able to advertise any Ts for sale within the first six 6 months.dvshannow said:
From my pov the .2 gts 2wd pdk with buckets remains the most exciting car porsche makes this side of gt cars - i had a 997 gt3 a while and i prefer the gts to that actually as its simply far more potent while retaining driver involvement (but i miss the manual sometimes) and so i wondered is the T something more than meets the eye
Even more than other 911’s I think spec is crucial...unless you go all in with the weight saving I don’t really understand why you’d want one over a GTS. Manual, Buckets, PCCB’s, lightweight glass, no PCM or rear seats and yes then I think it may be something special. Cheib said:
Even more than other 911’s I think spec is crucial...unless you go all in with the weight saving I don’t really understand why you’d want one over a GTS. Manual, Buckets, PCCB’s, lightweight glass, no PCM or rear seats and yes then I think it may be something special.
Free rear seats are a plus on the T imo....otherwise a GT4 looks as appealing at the money for those wanting no rear seats.Also the rear seats can be removed for those who want to.
Also remain unconvinced buckets/pccb are worthwhile on this car having regard to the cost but each to their own.
Free pcm a must too!
Cheib said:
Even more than other 911’s I think spec is crucial...unless you go all in with the weight saving I don’t really understand why you’d want one over a GTS. Manual, Buckets, PCCB’s, lightweight glass, no PCM or rear seats and yes then I think it may be something special.
Cheib,i agree 100% with this however i would add RWS as it transforms 991s for the better in all ways..w5pwr said:
Locked down my final Spec. today, system showed late April completion so hopefully will see the car early May. I almost held firm on my target price of under £100k but on my drive to the dealer I realised for me the glass roof in my current 991 is something I would miss, I know others say it takes something away from the 'T' but......
Build code;
http://www.porsche-code.com/PJTB7FL2
Excellent choices, I’m sure it’ll be epic Build code;
http://www.porsche-code.com/PJTB7FL2
Edited by w5pwr on Wednesday 7th March 18:26
Taffy66 said:
Cheib said:
Even more than other 911’s I think spec is crucial...unless you go all in with the weight saving I don’t really understand why you’d want one over a GTS. Manual, Buckets, PCCB’s, lightweight glass, no PCM or rear seats and yes then I think it may be something special.
Cheib,i agree 100% with this however i would add RWS as it transforms 991s for the better in all ways..IREvans said:
WizzBang said:
I hope you all get this resolved ASAP. Porsche is in breach of contract - they owe you more than a shrug.
Could someone elaborate on this..? I've ordered my car with PCM and Digital radio options both selected. Have I missed anything..?The configurator and spec was different for the early builds. In the early days there was no option for DAB - it was automatically included if one selected PCM.
However, Porsche made a mistake and omitted to build cars with the DAB per the specification.
The specification was then amended to delete DAB from the PCM and instead,to have DAB as an option.
A cock-up along with lightweight glass (now corrected on the configurator) and 18-ways (still wrong on the configurator).
Edited by WizzBang on Thursday 10th May 22:16
WizzBang said:
You will be fine as you have ticked both boxes.
The configurator and spec was different for the early builds. In the early days there was no option for DAB - it was automatically included if one selected PCM.
However, Porsche made a mistake and omitted to build cars with the DAB per the specification.
The specification was then amended to delete DAB from the PCM and instead,to have DAB as an option.
A cock-up along with lightweight glass (now corrected on the configurator) and 18-ways (still wrong on the configurator).
Phew, thanks for the clarity Re DAB..!The configurator and spec was different for the early builds. In the early days there was no option for DAB - it was automatically included if one selected PCM.
However, Porsche made a mistake and omitted to build cars with the DAB per the specification.
The specification was then amended to delete DAB from the PCM and instead,to have DAB as an option.
A cock-up along with lightweight glass (now corrected on the configurator) and 18-ways (still wrong on the configurator).
I also changed my order removing the privacy glazing, as someone on this thread highlighted that I’d have lost the lightweight glass....
Taffy66 said:
Cheib said:
Even more than other 911’s I think spec is crucial...unless you go all in with the weight saving I don’t really understand why you’d want one over a GTS. Manual, Buckets, PCCB’s, lightweight glass, no PCM or rear seats and yes then I think it may be something special.
Cheib,i agree 100% with this however i would add RWS as it transforms 991s for the better in all ways..For this reason i would be surprised to see many Ts specced with pccbs and buckets as they are not the cheapest options and the T is quite a narrow sweatspot band...once you add a few options you approach the cost of a specced GTS.
The T i think could habe been a stripped out 911 with all theinfotainment removed (at a saving to buyers) no rear seats speccable and with the S brakes. It should price at or small below a base 911 and then i could totally see its target market.
both the T and the GTS are superb cars and can see owners of both being v happy i dont personally regret getting a GTS and likewise doubt T owners will be unhappy either
Edited by dvshannow on Thursday 8th March 08:15
moonigan said:
A Miami Blue car with buckets has just arrived at JZM. Not on the website yet but will be interesting to see what kind of overs is being asked.
https://www.jzmporsche.com/used-vehicle-details/Po...£10-13K overs!!
Edited by moonigan on Thursday 8th March 09:09
Nick981 said:
boringbeige said:
Is this your first 911 or have you got / had others?
It will be my first. I had a 981 Boxster S, which I loved, but led me to want to own a new 911 at least once in my life. Spent ages speccing the GTS and intend to keep it for a good few years.dvshannow said:
boringbeige said:
Nick981 said:
boringbeige said:
I have both and can assure you that the T and the GTS are quite different, more so than you d think...
Please could you expand on this?However GTS 991s are very spec sensitive. I had a 991.1 for a year and hated it; then figured out why, so sold it and bought another 991.1 GTS with a different spec and love it. I bought a 991.2 GTS to the same spec as my second 991.1 GTS and hated that too, so sold it and kept my second 991.1.
I've had manual and pdk 991.1 GTS's and imo the engine suits the pdk better. And I almost hate myself for admitting that.
I've had ceramics and steels and think the steels are better on a GTS.
Speccing the 18 way seats brings a more user friendly set of seating/steering/memory options but this is a heavy option, for those that worry about such things.
The glass panoramic sunroof completey f
ks up the GTS chassis....they are built to ride higher and softer...only a bit but enough to feel. Also the body stiffness is less, enough to notice. Loads of people spec the panoramic cos it certainly looks good but it stops the GTS being as 'sporty' as it should be. The entire glass roof is only loosely bonded in, to avoid it getting stressed or twisted which might crack it.NEVER SPEC A GTS WITH A PANORAMIC ROOF.
My T rides 10mm higher than my GTS and I can feel this from the driving position and the c-o-g.
My T rides firmer than my GTS, I feel more pot holes and cats eyes in my T.
The brakes on my T lack the 'grab' of the brakes on my GTS. They are both steel. The discs on my T are actually nearly 15mm larger but the calipers have 4 pots and on my GTS they are 6 pots. My GTS has better braking.
Both interiors are equally nice places to be. I have the full GTS interior and the full T interior.
The T is about as quick as the GTS despite being 60bhp down. They both put very similar numbers on the dial.
The T has noticeably more low rev shove.
The T has noticeably less high rev shove.
The T does 'come on song' at 5k revs and to give it some credit it is a brilliant engine, but imo it doesnt match the character or reach of the GTS engine.
The manual box in the T is excellent in the first 5 gears but shockingly s
t once past that. It's not the mechanical quality of the gearchange that s the problem. It's trying to put the bloody stick in the right bloody hole . Coming down the box from 7th or 6th I double de clutch. And that s ridiculous in 2018.The T feels heavier at the back than my GTS. The fore/aft weight distribution is different.
The T is a bit narrower, enough to be noticeable on smaller lanes.
Here's an analogy for you: Picture a man walking a tight rope - my GTS feels like a tight rope walker holding his arms out wide and my T feels like a tight rope walker with his hands in his pockets. One is making it look easy with minimal body movement and effort. The other is working much harder to achieve the same level of balance. That's how these cars feel, the pasm on the T has to work much harder to maintain the level of control I ask for.
As is usual with Porsche sports cars (specced as the engineers would want, not as the marketing team or salesman would want) both of these cars feel great when driven steady, then feel not quite so great (enough to pick faults) when driven briskly or even quite fast; but then if you go quicker still, then even quicker, then really really hard - and they become brilliant. imo better than any GT car, except maybe for the 997.1 RS. for the road that is.
On the kind of roads we have in rural UK, poor surfaces covered in cow s
t and leaves, potholes, random cambers, pronounced crowns, narrow, crumbling edges in our kind of miserable weather - I can drive these cars to a level where other makes of cars I've had have broken. These feel fine and ready for more. After some drives I have been genuinely astounded by how much punishment these cars can take. The engineering is hugely impressive and i think it's such a shame that many owners will never know that.
If I had to pick just one of these tho, to keep as a road car, it would be my GTS. The T is very close to it tho.
I would rather have my T than a 991.2 GTS.
Anything else ...?
The suspension is 10mm higher but firmer? The discs on the T are bigger than the .2 gts but 4pot? These are things i was not aware of.
I test drove the S before getting the GTS and was surprised at how much better the GTS was from the incremental changes.
I completely agree regarding speccing 911 a GTS is far from a a GTS a 2wd coupe with buckets is vastly different to an awd targa.
My initial post was simply from an objective pov the gts offers a lot more performance objectively with the widebody so what is it the T offers as the weight savings are imo cosmetic... your post did not really cover that as the comparison was vs a .1 gts and the .2 was dismissed as something you hated without explanation.
From my pov the .2 gts 2wd pdk with buckets remains the most exciting car porsche makes this side of gt cars - i had a 997 gt3 a while and i prefer the gts to that actually as its simply far more potent while retaining driver involvement (but i miss the manual sometimes) and so i wondered is the T something more than meets the eye
The brakes on the T are great but do not have the strength of grab that the brakes on my GTS do. I measured the discs and the ones on the T are 15mm larger than the ones on my GTS but the calipers on the T are smaller in size than the caliper on the GTS and the T has 4 pots but the GTS 6 pots.
When I had my 991.2GTS I parked that side by side with my 991.1 GTS and the .2 was 7mm higher all round in ride height. I knew it would be before I measured it because I could feel it.
I agree with you that a GTS is much more 'sporty' than the S. More than you'd imagine if you only read the specs and don't drive them both back to back. Porsche never advertise all of the changes they make to an S to turn it into a GTS.
Similarly, they haven't been open about all of the changes they made to a base Carrera to turn it into a T.
I've had a 991.1gts and a 991.2 gts at the same time and now have the 991.1GTS and a T at the same time so I can compare.
I'll post some pics of my 991.2GTS that I had ...
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