Anyone for ‘T’
Discussion
av185 said:
I 've had quite a few nice cars insured through Admiral over the years and they do seem to polarise opinion somewhat.
Because they are a mainstream insurer it is crucial to e mail them a copy of the cars purchase invoice showing all costed extras and also to get them to confirm in the event of a claim any repairs to the vehicle/glass/glass replacement is via the OPC at no penalty to the insured although this inevitably results in waiving the right to a courtesy car.
I would barely trust Admiral to insure a posh lawnmower after the horrific experience I had when I was rear ended in my old F355 in France back in 2010 or so. They're cheap for a reason. Happy to chuck our £5K shagged family car at them, but wouldn't even consider any of the nice cars/anything I actually cared aboutBecause they are a mainstream insurer it is crucial to e mail them a copy of the cars purchase invoice showing all costed extras and also to get them to confirm in the event of a claim any repairs to the vehicle/glass/glass replacement is via the OPC at no penalty to the insured although this inevitably results in waiving the right to a courtesy car.
nw942 said:
If you are with Admiral and you SORN your car, I would run it past them.
When I told them one of my cars was SORNed they said that only cover vehichles that are taxed and have an MOT. Two seperate people there told me that.
Interesting point but irrespective of what they say there's no way that could be enforced in the event of a claim after referring to the insurance ombudsman.When I told them one of my cars was SORNed they said that only cover vehichles that are taxed and have an MOT. Two seperate people there told me that.
I have no idea why I like itWell, I've had to drop my 997 GTS off for some warranty today and and managed to arrange a 991.2 spanish Carrera to keep until Monday. After a mixed-to-disappointing drive in a 991.2 C2S PDK a year or so ago (thoughts about it half way down the page here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... I thought I'd give the base model a try to see if it could redeem the range, and see if I could get a feel for what the T might be like. Done about 100 miles today so far on motorway and cross country thrash, so thought I'd pass on my musings which are basically comparing/contrasting with the aforementioned C2S, my old 981 BGTS and my current 997 GTS
Caveat: when I say I'm driving the base model, since it's a demonstrator, the OPC have thrown the kitchen sink at it in options - by my estimate it's about a £95K car all in
Luckily, a large amount of it can be binned IMO, I would spec the car and achieve the same enjoyment at about £88K.
The good news is I am pretty sure the base model with a Spanish box is the pick of the range (putting the T to one side for a minute).
The demo car is nicely run in and the 'box is a peach, so precise and slick - takes a little time to get used to 7 ratios, but all good. Clutch is light and easy to use. In gear speeds are comparable to my 997 GTS (75mph or so in 2nd, 100-and-a-bit in 3rd I think) so all good, no silly 981-esque ratios, so short of using the car for commuting through a city, I wouldn't even consider PDK for a 991.2 even if it was a free option even though it is very good and I personally very much enjoyed the PDK on my 981 BGTS.
Exhaust noise is night and day different from the C2S I drove - either the PSE wasn't working properly on that car or there have been some serious revisions. It's not as bonkers as the 981/991.1 PSE, but it is very peachy and a bit more grown up. Think I may actually prefer it to the noise of my 997 GTS and it sounds more enginey/real than my 981 BGTS which is a real surprise.
Chassis is mega. Same supple compliance and lightness of feel as my 981 BGTS and the C2S, PASM Sport and Normal are very well judged for the road. No RWS in this car and while it was fun in the C2S, I wouldn't bother speccing it, doing without makes it feel more 911-ey to me. Overall, it def feels the 1.5 generations newer than my 997 GTS that it is and then some.
Steering is also very good. Again I find it hard to believe that its the same system that was on the C2S and it's def better than on the BGTS and back to back with my 997 GTS I'm not sure I could tell you it was an ePAS system hand on heart.
Engine - well, thought I'd leave the controversial bit til the end
It's good news - firstly there is a LOT less turbo lag which is fab and above 2200rpm its hardly noticeable with the boost and full torque available very quickly. In the C2S I was still finding it at 3k rpm and it got on my tits. The top end is still not what I'd like it to be - but again, it feels different in character from the C2S and more like a nasp engine. There's little point in taking it past 7k rpm, but it's def an improvement on the C2S. And the best bit is because it's a more sensible amount of power, it's much much more fun to use. Performance in a straight line is basically the same as my 997 GTS. A 991.2 GTS may be supercar quick with 450bhp, but if the C2S's 420 turboed ponies are too much, I can't see how adding to it would make it better. If I could transplant my 997GTS engine into the car, or indeed any of the 991.1 lumps, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But if it has to have the 3 litre TT in it, this is the one to have I reckon.
Only real niggles I have with the car, other than the wondering of how good it'd be with a nasp engine, are that you don't appear to be able to disable the autoblip ever when not in O mode - would like to be able to turn it off in I and S+ modes. And when the spoiler pops up, it looks a little funny to my eye.
Highest praise I can give this car is it's def one I would consider buying used in a year or so's time if I fancied a change. Given that the T should be this and more, I think people who are ordering one will be very pleased. My hypothetical Carrera spec comes in at £88K, and my hypothetical T spec at a bit over £91K - so for me the T would be a no brainer as I'd be paying only £3K for shorter ratios, track friendly LSD and lower/meaner look, which would be well worth it IMO.
Caveat: when I say I'm driving the base model, since it's a demonstrator, the OPC have thrown the kitchen sink at it in options - by my estimate it's about a £95K car all in
Luckily, a large amount of it can be binned IMO, I would spec the car and achieve the same enjoyment at about £88K.The good news is I am pretty sure the base model with a Spanish box is the pick of the range (putting the T to one side for a minute).
The demo car is nicely run in and the 'box is a peach, so precise and slick - takes a little time to get used to 7 ratios, but all good. Clutch is light and easy to use. In gear speeds are comparable to my 997 GTS (75mph or so in 2nd, 100-and-a-bit in 3rd I think) so all good, no silly 981-esque ratios, so short of using the car for commuting through a city, I wouldn't even consider PDK for a 991.2 even if it was a free option even though it is very good and I personally very much enjoyed the PDK on my 981 BGTS.
Exhaust noise is night and day different from the C2S I drove - either the PSE wasn't working properly on that car or there have been some serious revisions. It's not as bonkers as the 981/991.1 PSE, but it is very peachy and a bit more grown up. Think I may actually prefer it to the noise of my 997 GTS and it sounds more enginey/real than my 981 BGTS which is a real surprise.
Chassis is mega. Same supple compliance and lightness of feel as my 981 BGTS and the C2S, PASM Sport and Normal are very well judged for the road. No RWS in this car and while it was fun in the C2S, I wouldn't bother speccing it, doing without makes it feel more 911-ey to me. Overall, it def feels the 1.5 generations newer than my 997 GTS that it is and then some.
Steering is also very good. Again I find it hard to believe that its the same system that was on the C2S and it's def better than on the BGTS and back to back with my 997 GTS I'm not sure I could tell you it was an ePAS system hand on heart.
Engine - well, thought I'd leave the controversial bit til the end
It's good news - firstly there is a LOT less turbo lag which is fab and above 2200rpm its hardly noticeable with the boost and full torque available very quickly. In the C2S I was still finding it at 3k rpm and it got on my tits. The top end is still not what I'd like it to be - but again, it feels different in character from the C2S and more like a nasp engine. There's little point in taking it past 7k rpm, but it's def an improvement on the C2S. And the best bit is because it's a more sensible amount of power, it's much much more fun to use. Performance in a straight line is basically the same as my 997 GTS. A 991.2 GTS may be supercar quick with 450bhp, but if the C2S's 420 turboed ponies are too much, I can't see how adding to it would make it better. If I could transplant my 997GTS engine into the car, or indeed any of the 991.1 lumps, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But if it has to have the 3 litre TT in it, this is the one to have I reckon.Only real niggles I have with the car, other than the wondering of how good it'd be with a nasp engine, are that you don't appear to be able to disable the autoblip ever when not in O mode - would like to be able to turn it off in I and S+ modes. And when the spoiler pops up, it looks a little funny to my eye.
Highest praise I can give this car is it's def one I would consider buying used in a year or so's time if I fancied a change. Given that the T should be this and more, I think people who are ordering one will be very pleased. My hypothetical Carrera spec comes in at £88K, and my hypothetical T spec at a bit over £91K - so for me the T would be a no brainer as I'd be paying only £3K for shorter ratios, track friendly LSD and lower/meaner look, which would be well worth it IMO.
Hi Mario
Thank you for taking the time to write your views.
I am hoping it could be the best one for accessible fun. I think 370 bhp, shorter ratios, lower suspension, a LSD with a bit less noise insulation could be perfect for on the road.
I am 100% certain all the more powerful others, despite the minor weight saving of the T, will be quicker round a circuit but it’s the best balance for a road car that I am after. I am also sure an experienced track driver will have 3 to 5 seconds on me even if I had a faster car.
It could well be the ideal car that you can actually drive in a spirited way on the road without things getting a bit intense and crossing into license loosing territory.
Thanks again
Ed
Thank you for taking the time to write your views.
I am hoping it could be the best one for accessible fun. I think 370 bhp, shorter ratios, lower suspension, a LSD with a bit less noise insulation could be perfect for on the road.
I am 100% certain all the more powerful others, despite the minor weight saving of the T, will be quicker round a circuit but it’s the best balance for a road car that I am after. I am also sure an experienced track driver will have 3 to 5 seconds on me even if I had a faster car.
It could well be the ideal car that you can actually drive in a spirited way on the road without things getting a bit intense and crossing into license loosing territory.
Thanks again
Ed
Hi Mario - was that the Crayon car at Portsmouth???
I have driven that car, which sounds just like the one you describe and have to admit it was a great drive and really surprised me. Plenty fast enough, actually sounds half decent too - much better than the new 4-pot 718's - and really enjoyed the manual box - much better than the original 7-speeders. This was the car that made me decide to go for a manual GTS, until the T was launched - then changed for the T - I think this car will be a hoot to drive and really looking forward to it arriving next year - April probably
I have driven that car, which sounds just like the one you describe and have to admit it was a great drive and really surprised me. Plenty fast enough, actually sounds half decent too - much better than the new 4-pot 718's - and really enjoyed the manual box - much better than the original 7-speeders. This was the car that made me decide to go for a manual GTS, until the T was launched - then changed for the T - I think this car will be a hoot to drive and really looking forward to it arriving next year - April probably
Mario149 said:
Well, I've had to drop my 997 GTS off for some warranty today and and managed to arrange a 991.2 spanish Carrera to keep until Monday. After a mixed-to-disappointing drive in a 991.2 C2S PDK a year or so ago (thoughts about it half way down the page here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... I thought I'd give the base model a try to see if it could redeem the range, and see if I could get a feel for what the T might be like. Done about 100 miles today so far on motorway and cross country thrash, so thought I'd pass on my musings which are basically comparing/contrasting with the aforementioned C2S, my old 981 BGTS and my current 997 GTS
Caveat: when I say I'm driving the base model, since it's a demonstrator, the OPC have thrown the kitchen sink at it in options - by my estimate it's about a £95K car all in Luckily, a large amount of it can be binned IMO, I would spec the car and achieve the same enjoyment at about £88K.
The good news is I am pretty sure the base model with a Spanish box is the pick of the range (putting the T to one side for a minute).
The demo car is nicely run in and the 'box is a peach, so precise and slick - takes a little time to get used to 7 ratios, but all good. Clutch is light and easy to use. In gear speeds are comparable to my 997 GTS (75mph or so in 2nd, 100-and-a-bit in 3rd I think) so all good, no silly 981-esque ratios, so short of using the car for commuting through a city, I wouldn't even consider PDK for a 991.2 even if it was a free option even though it is very good and I personally very much enjoyed the PDK on my 981 BGTS.
Exhaust noise is night and day different from the C2S I drove - either the PSE wasn't working properly on that car or there have been some serious revisions. It's not as bonkers as the 981/991.1 PSE, but it is very peachy and a bit more grown up. Think I may actually prefer it to the noise of my 997 GTS and it sounds more enginey/real than my 981 BGTS which is a real surprise.
Chassis is mega. Same supple compliance and lightness of feel as my 981 BGTS and the C2S, PASM Sport and Normal are very well judged for the road. No RWS in this car and while it was fun in the C2S, I wouldn't bother speccing it, doing without makes it feel more 911-ey to me. Overall, it def feels the 1.5 generations newer than my 997 GTS that it is and then some.
Steering is also very good. Again I find it hard to believe that its the same system that was on the C2S and it's def better than on the BGTS and back to back with my 997 GTS I'm not sure I could tell you it was an ePAS system hand on heart.
Engine - well, thought I'd leave the controversial bit til the end It's good news - firstly there is a LOT less turbo lag which is fab and above 2200rpm its hardly noticeable with the boost and full torque available very quickly. In the C2S I was still finding it at 3k rpm and it got on my tits. The top end is still not what I'd like it to be - but again, it feels different in character from the C2S and more like a nasp engine. There's little point in taking it past 7k rpm, but it's def an improvement on the C2S. And the best bit is because it's a more sensible amount of power, it's much much more fun to use. Performance in a straight line is basically the same as my 997 GTS. A 991.2 GTS may be supercar quick with 450bhp, but if the C2S's 420 turboed ponies are too much, I can't see how adding to it would make it better. If I could transplant my 997GTS engine into the car, or indeed any of the 991.1 lumps, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But if it has to have the 3 litre TT in it, this is the one to have I reckon.
Only real niggles I have with the car, other than the wondering of how good it'd be with a nasp engine, are that you don't appear to be able to disable the autoblip ever when not in O mode - would like to be able to turn it off in I and S+ modes. And when the spoiler pops up, it looks a little funny to my eye.
Highest praise I can give this car is it's def one I would consider buying used in a year or so's time if I fancied a change. Given that the T should be this and more, I think people who are ordering one will be very pleased. My hypothetical Carrera spec comes in at £88K, and my hypothetical T spec at a bit over £91K - so for me the T would be a no brainer as I'd be paying only £3K for shorter ratios, track friendly LSD and lower/meaner look, which would be well worth it IMO.
Caveat: when I say I'm driving the base model, since it's a demonstrator, the OPC have thrown the kitchen sink at it in options - by my estimate it's about a £95K car all in
Luckily, a large amount of it can be binned IMO, I would spec the car and achieve the same enjoyment at about £88K.The good news is I am pretty sure the base model with a Spanish box is the pick of the range (putting the T to one side for a minute).
The demo car is nicely run in and the 'box is a peach, so precise and slick - takes a little time to get used to 7 ratios, but all good. Clutch is light and easy to use. In gear speeds are comparable to my 997 GTS (75mph or so in 2nd, 100-and-a-bit in 3rd I think) so all good, no silly 981-esque ratios, so short of using the car for commuting through a city, I wouldn't even consider PDK for a 991.2 even if it was a free option even though it is very good and I personally very much enjoyed the PDK on my 981 BGTS.
Exhaust noise is night and day different from the C2S I drove - either the PSE wasn't working properly on that car or there have been some serious revisions. It's not as bonkers as the 981/991.1 PSE, but it is very peachy and a bit more grown up. Think I may actually prefer it to the noise of my 997 GTS and it sounds more enginey/real than my 981 BGTS which is a real surprise.
Chassis is mega. Same supple compliance and lightness of feel as my 981 BGTS and the C2S, PASM Sport and Normal are very well judged for the road. No RWS in this car and while it was fun in the C2S, I wouldn't bother speccing it, doing without makes it feel more 911-ey to me. Overall, it def feels the 1.5 generations newer than my 997 GTS that it is and then some.
Steering is also very good. Again I find it hard to believe that its the same system that was on the C2S and it's def better than on the BGTS and back to back with my 997 GTS I'm not sure I could tell you it was an ePAS system hand on heart.
Engine - well, thought I'd leave the controversial bit til the end
It's good news - firstly there is a LOT less turbo lag which is fab and above 2200rpm its hardly noticeable with the boost and full torque available very quickly. In the C2S I was still finding it at 3k rpm and it got on my tits. The top end is still not what I'd like it to be - but again, it feels different in character from the C2S and more like a nasp engine. There's little point in taking it past 7k rpm, but it's def an improvement on the C2S. And the best bit is because it's a more sensible amount of power, it's much much more fun to use. Performance in a straight line is basically the same as my 997 GTS. A 991.2 GTS may be supercar quick with 450bhp, but if the C2S's 420 turboed ponies are too much, I can't see how adding to it would make it better. If I could transplant my 997GTS engine into the car, or indeed any of the 991.1 lumps, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But if it has to have the 3 litre TT in it, this is the one to have I reckon.Only real niggles I have with the car, other than the wondering of how good it'd be with a nasp engine, are that you don't appear to be able to disable the autoblip ever when not in O mode - would like to be able to turn it off in I and S+ modes. And when the spoiler pops up, it looks a little funny to my eye.
Highest praise I can give this car is it's def one I would consider buying used in a year or so's time if I fancied a change. Given that the T should be this and more, I think people who are ordering one will be very pleased. My hypothetical Carrera spec comes in at £88K, and my hypothetical T spec at a bit over £91K - so for me the T would be a no brainer as I'd be paying only £3K for shorter ratios, track friendly LSD and lower/meaner look, which would be well worth it IMO.
Thanks Mario for the write up.
I had a session at PEC Silverstone last week in a manual 991.2 base Carrera to sample the closest thing to a T. I loved it. My daily is a 991.1 GTS PDK, and I'd been planning on keeping the T and the NA GTS but I was so pleased with the base that I'm happy to sell the GTS. It's taken me 2 years to realise that I miss the involvement of a manual box.
The car had the standard small brakes (as per T) and despite pushing the car to my limits on the twisty curcuit, the brakes held up. They are more than adequate for road use. I then jumped into a C2S with PCCB as these are what I had specced and I couldn't discern and difference. I've now removed PCCB from my order - £6k saved!
Confession; I managed to stall the car in the first 20 yards
As soon as you depress the clutch the car restarts automatically. Brilliant. Didn't know that modern manual cars did this.
I had a session at PEC Silverstone last week in a manual 991.2 base Carrera to sample the closest thing to a T. I loved it. My daily is a 991.1 GTS PDK, and I'd been planning on keeping the T and the NA GTS but I was so pleased with the base that I'm happy to sell the GTS. It's taken me 2 years to realise that I miss the involvement of a manual box.
The car had the standard small brakes (as per T) and despite pushing the car to my limits on the twisty curcuit, the brakes held up. They are more than adequate for road use. I then jumped into a C2S with PCCB as these are what I had specced and I couldn't discern and difference. I've now removed PCCB from my order - £6k saved!
Confession; I managed to stall the car in the first 20 yards
As soon as you depress the clutch the car restarts automatically. Brilliant. Didn't know that modern manual cars did this.Cheib said:
If you look at the Harry’s Garage vid of the 991.2 S he reviews he said on that that he reckoned the base car might be the one to have as it’s the one with “the least turbo”...It’s be interesting to drive Carrera, S and GTS back to back.
He also said a PDK might suit it better!Cheib said:
If you look at the Harry’s Garage vid of the 991.2 S he reviews he said on that that he reckoned the base car might be the one to have as it’s the one with “the least turbo”...It’s be interesting to drive Carrera, S and GTS back to back.
I have driven the S and GTS back to back at the experience centre and have to say I couldn’t wait to get out of the S. GTS on paper is only tweaks on the S albeit in most areas, but the cars are night and day. GTS has barely any turbo lag and pulls so strongly. Suspension is better and the overall feel of the Car tighter but it is the lag that killed the S for me. I think the T will be a belter of a car with the driver focussed bits it will be a good step up from the standard Carrera and could well run the GTS as ‘the model to have’ going forward.
GTS is a stunning Car IMO, although with 450hp you struggle to run it out much on the road as it goes too fast too quickly.
All I can say is congratulations to anyone who has secured a T and I’m looking forward to trying to hearing views when the cars arrive and are run in.
Shiverman said:
I have driven the S and GTS back to back at the experience centre and have to say I couldn’t wait to get out of the S. GTS on paper is only tweaks on the S albeit in most areas, but the cars are night and day. GTS has barely any turbo lag and pulls so strongly. Suspension is better and the overall feel of the Car tighter but it is the lag that killed the S for me.
I thought the internals were the same as the S (and base car for that matter) - are they not?Shiverman said:
I think the T will be a belter of a car with the driver focussed bits it will be a good step up from the standard Carrera and could well run the GTS as ‘the model to have’ going forward.
GTS is a stunning Car IMO, although with 450hp you struggle to run it out much on the road as it goes too fast too quickly.
All I can say is congratulations to anyone who has secured a T and I’m looking forward to trying to hearing views when the cars arrive and are run in.
I think this is going to be a serious problem with 911s of this generation and after - once you start getting above 300bhp/tonne, or even less with turbo cars, I think the road driving enjoyment (not necessarily the overall experience as we all get different things from different cars) starts tailing off rapidly unless you're just a point and squirt person or an utter lunatic. GTS is a stunning Car IMO, although with 450hp you struggle to run it out much on the road as it goes too fast too quickly.
All I can say is congratulations to anyone who has secured a T and I’m looking forward to trying to hearing views when the cars arrive and are run in.
Cheib said:
If you look at the Harry’s Garage vid of the 991.2 S he reviews he said on that that he reckoned the base car might be the one to have as it’s the one with “the least turbo”...It’s be interesting to drive Carrera, S and GTS back to back.
That makes sense to me as I understood that the Carrera and S (and also the GTS?) run the same capacity and turbo gear. Using some back of fag packet reckoning, say a hypothetical un-turboed version of the 3 litre was hypothetically good for about 300Nm at 3k rpm (sensible numbers based on 991.1 3.4 figures that have been factored down), in the Carrera you only need say 7 psi of boost (judging by the dash readout) to make the full 450Nm, so 7 psi gives you an extra 150Nm. In the S with the same engine, to get the quoted 500Nm you'd need 10psi roughly. And if the GTS goes in a similar fashion you'd need knocking on 12psi for the quoted 550Nm. So all other things being equal you're always going to get more lag as you've got to wait for more boost I would have thought.Cheib said:
If you look at the Harry’s Garage vid of the 991.2 S he reviews he said on that that he reckoned the base car might be the one to have as it’s the one with “the least turbo”...It’s be interesting to drive Carrera, S and GTS back to back.
I've either driven or owned all iterations of the 991.2 and can categorically say that by far the least enjoyable to drive is the 420hp S. The base 370hp version is plenty quick enough for the road and has virtually no lag..The 450hp GTS version which i've just sold is a wondrous machine and the best version and absolutely undetectable lag...it is the best car i've ever owned.Initially i was very sceptical about the T and expressed those views on this thread however my stance has altered somewhat and i now get the T !. Trouble is i've owned a 991.2GTS and picking up a new GT3 next week so just maybe if i drove the T it would feel like a step backwards in performance terms. Despite this i've specced my ideal T which is a white or yellow one,manual,buckets,PCCBs,RWS and absolutely no weight adding options which would ruin the lightweight ethos and consequently push the price into GTS territory.
It sounds like a great car in my ideal spec but it'll never hold a candle to the GTS IMO.
Whatever anybody does make sure you spec RAS and manual but avoid the heavy glass sunroof.
This used GTS is an interesting alternative to a T....and I think looks lovely on Silver wheels with the Dark Blue paint.
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/detail...
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/detail...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yeah, makes sense all of that and tallies with what I've been experiencing. What I've found after the thick end of 200 spirited miles this weekend in the Carrera (esp today now that I'm used to the car) is that the "tip in" lag as you call under 2.5k rpm or so doesn't really bother me as it's rare I give it enough throttle at those revs for any boost to be needed at all since I'm pottering. If I'm driving hard but with smooth throttle applications above that, the squeezing on the throttle progressively as you should (rather than stamping on it!) effectively hides the little remaining lag so well that the vast majority of the time I can't say I notice anything. The thing that ironically makes the engine most noticeable as a turbo to me now is when you're say running to the redline giving it the full berries, then come off to take a gear, when you get back on the throttle there is a split second where the turbos have to respool - it almost feels like PSM has kicked in briefly but it's not as you never see even a flicker of a light (plus it happens in the bone dry). I imagine a PDK change is fast enough to hide it (don't recall it on the C2S test drive), but you do feel it in the manual.Taffy66 said:
Whatever anybody does make sure you spec RWS and manual but avoid the heavy glass sunroof.
Would have thought rws would one of the least desirable options, in terms of priority, on a car like the T....especially at the price!Why do you think it a necessity on the T Taff?
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