Flipped GT3.2's
Discussion
throt said:
Well whatever consumers think about the OPC's they can't win either way if you think about it. The majority of interested GT buyers will not get one. I was told the interest list went up in to the 100's at one OPC. Imagine being a salesman getting your ear bent all the time on the phone..
I cant believe an OPC had 100 Genuine interested parties... i mean 20-30 yeah, with mostly messers in those figures, If i dont get an allocation this time round, ill be on the case for an even harder to get 3RS hahaha AndrewD said:
Porsche911R said:
I call you on it as new car hype :-)
RS has peak 460NM torque, GT3 the same 460NM at just about the same rpm
at 4500 the RS has about 400NM the gen 2 GT3 has.........less at 4500 rpm !!!! and this is best case on the PDK map !
so unless you live in low gears at 2k revs which is not really a GT3 thing to do, or any sports car for that matter you are not going to notice !!
even at 3k revs the RS has 340NM the GT3 has .. well less again about 335 NM
The RS has a dip at 4k so 355NM the GT3 370NM so dead on 4k you gain 15 NM in the new GT3.
if you got into the 454BHP GTS which give out crazy torque at 3k revs and said wow the torque was far better I would agree, RS vs gen 2 Gt3 with 75 miles on the clock, I do have to call it a bit as new car owner hype :-p
Any way as I own neither and you own both, feel free to hype the new car up over the RS as much as you want :-)
But when you are talking a 4.0L 460NM 500hp engine vs a 4.0L 460NM 500HP engine it's a bit daft after 75 miles esp as the manual has a detuned map to work with a real diff etc,the performance stats are well down on the manual car.
2k rpm I'll give it to you the new GT3 has grunt at 2k :-)
Not sure why I need to hype this car. Got a 2RS coming in a few months which will put any of these torque and power figures into perspective. It is simply imparting initial impressions from driving a car. If you don't like it with your internet view of life, so be it. We can all quote stats, Porsche claim GT3 80-120 in 5th is 4.9s and the RS is half a second slower. Just saying how it feels in the car. The GT3 is really quite different to the RS in this. RS has peak 460NM torque, GT3 the same 460NM at just about the same rpm
at 4500 the RS has about 400NM the gen 2 GT3 has.........less at 4500 rpm !!!! and this is best case on the PDK map !
so unless you live in low gears at 2k revs which is not really a GT3 thing to do, or any sports car for that matter you are not going to notice !!
even at 3k revs the RS has 340NM the GT3 has .. well less again about 335 NM
The RS has a dip at 4k so 355NM the GT3 370NM so dead on 4k you gain 15 NM in the new GT3.
if you got into the 454BHP GTS which give out crazy torque at 3k revs and said wow the torque was far better I would agree, RS vs gen 2 Gt3 with 75 miles on the clock, I do have to call it a bit as new car owner hype :-p
Any way as I own neither and you own both, feel free to hype the new car up over the RS as much as you want :-)
But when you are talking a 4.0L 460NM 500hp engine vs a 4.0L 460NM 500HP engine it's a bit daft after 75 miles esp as the manual has a detuned map to work with a real diff etc,the performance stats are well down on the manual car.
2k rpm I'll give it to you the new GT3 has grunt at 2k :-)
BTW, can I buy it?
n17ves said:
I agree.
I was invited place my deposit after registering my interest 2 years ago, and in return received a comms number and order form. When I was told that I wouldn’t be getting a car, I naturally pushed for a reason why and was told I needed to have purchased 5 cars. When I offered to also place an order for Cayenne to meet these numbers, this quickly became 7 cars.
The set criteria (if transparent) doesn’t actually bother me so much if it was actually followed, but when they don’t follow the criteria and then actually lie about not selling GT3’s to customer that have been already flipped cars, it does make you question the whole system. You then learn about the ‘deals’ that have been made to secure these cars, and you then quickly realise it’s all one big sham and the criteria doesn’t exist at all. Yes there will be the some genuine customers (and OPC’s), but there is also some very corrupt ones that are doing anything they can to secure THAT car.
But the customer flips back to the OPC, it's a win win situation for the OPC, profit on a new car and split the profit once flipped and sold, I know for a fact this happens.I was invited place my deposit after registering my interest 2 years ago, and in return received a comms number and order form. When I was told that I wouldn’t be getting a car, I naturally pushed for a reason why and was told I needed to have purchased 5 cars. When I offered to also place an order for Cayenne to meet these numbers, this quickly became 7 cars.
The set criteria (if transparent) doesn’t actually bother me so much if it was actually followed, but when they don’t follow the criteria and then actually lie about not selling GT3’s to customer that have been already flipped cars, it does make you question the whole system. You then learn about the ‘deals’ that have been made to secure these cars, and you then quickly realise it’s all one big sham and the criteria doesn’t exist at all. Yes there will be the some genuine customers (and OPC’s), but there is also some very corrupt ones that are doing anything they can to secure THAT car.
The number of cars or the number of years dealing with an OPC means bugger all if your face doesn't fit.
ted 191 said:
But the customer flips back to the OPC, it's a win win situation for the OPC, profit on a new car and split the profit once flipped and sold, I know for a fact this happens.
The number of cars or the number of years dealing with an OPC means bugger all if your face doesn't fit.
I was at a Cars & Coffee meet at Wolverhampton Porsche, chatted with a 3RS owner who had a .2 on order, he knew several people who had two on order, one to drive and one to flip. He buys two cars a year from his dealer and flips them straight back most of the time, that makes the dealer two sales per vehicle and he suffers a small loss or sometimes breaks even, he chooses and specs his cars to sell.The number of cars or the number of years dealing with an OPC means bugger all if your face doesn't fit.
I guess I could to that but I've got better ways to spend my free time. I just want to go on a list and when it's my turn I spec my car. How hard is that to arrange!?! According to Porsche 'impossible'
ted 191 said:
Porsche GB, or even Germany, need to step in and have a say in the allocation process, it's not just OPC's with different methods of allocation to each other, I know of people with a first GT3 allocation that has only bought one new porsche and that was a few years ago, I have also been told, "from the horses mouth" that if you don't play the game, you don't get a car, no matter how many cars have been bought.
Everybody has reasons why they think they should be "allowed" to buy a GT porsche, it would be good for all involved to have some set guide lines and decisions not decided on arse licking and if the DP likes you.
Tend to agree with this. There are no guidelines so the opportunity for various ‘deals’ to be done are unregulated. However it continues.Everybody has reasons why they think they should be "allowed" to buy a GT porsche, it would be good for all involved to have some set guide lines and decisions not decided on arse licking and if the DP likes you.
If I were the OPC, I would be lobbying AG to centrally assign cars, to remove the opportunity for some to infer that certain OPC’s are not playing by the rules.
They all get tarred with the same brush, which is unfair. Realistically...this will never happen.
PantsFire said:
I was at a Cars & Coffee meet at Wolverhampton Porsche, chatted with a 3RS owner who had a .2 on order, he knew several people who had two on order, one to drive and one to flip. He buys two cars a year from his dealer and flips them straight back most of the time, that makes the dealer two sales per vehicle and he suffers a small loss or sometimes breaks even, he chooses and specs his cars to sell.
I guess I could to that but I've got better ways to spend my free time. I just want to go on a list and when it's my turn I spec my car. How hard is that to arrange!?! According to Porsche 'impossible'
Is your forum name ironic? I would be very surprised if anyone in the UK was allowed to buy 2 991.2 GT3s.I guess I could to that but I've got better ways to spend my free time. I just want to go on a list and when it's my turn I spec my car. How hard is that to arrange!?! According to Porsche 'impossible'
Why would an OPC or group want Germany to take away their ability to leverage relationship with their best customers?
Ferrari do this and there are still all sorts of shenanigans. Like my Speciale that was in build in May and miraculously became a September delivery car.
No system is perfect but allowing the decisions to be taken at the customer coal face is reasonable to me at least. Obviously nobody gains if the system is played, but so many people talk about brown envelopes with no actual proof.
Ferrari do this and there are still all sorts of shenanigans. Like my Speciale that was in build in May and miraculously became a September delivery car.
No system is perfect but allowing the decisions to be taken at the customer coal face is reasonable to me at least. Obviously nobody gains if the system is played, but so many people talk about brown envelopes with no actual proof.
AndrewD said:
Why would an OPC or group want Germany to take away their ability to leverage relationship with their best customers?
.
I didnt know Ferrari did this. Define ‘best customers’..
Agree, shenanigans both ways, and those OPC’s involved would certainly not want it contracted centrally. For those who aren’t and are constantly under the kosh from angry clients, they can simply state that it’s not their decision and will put your case to AG. Less hassle and relationships maintained. The current situation is ridiculous.
Robbo66 said:
AndrewD said:
Why would an OPC or group want Germany to take away their ability to leverage relationship with their best customers?
.
I didnt know Ferrari did this. Define ‘best customers’..
Agree, shenanigans both ways, and those OPC’s involved would certainly not want it contracted centrally. For those who aren’t and are constantly under the kosh from angry clients, they can simply state that it’s not their decision and will put your case to AG. Less hassle and relationships maintained. The current situation is ridiculous.
AndrewD said:
As I said a lot of noise on the internet about brown envelopes but it seems to me this is because people are understandably disappointed and no system can stop that when demand massively exceeds supply.
If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck..If it was a murmur, or an isolated complainant, that is one thing. To dismiss "a lot" of noise and conclude its all somehow a fallacy of disappointed customers seems a bit see no evil, hear no evil.
PantsFire said:
BubblesNW said:
Is your forum name ironic? I would be very surprised if anyone in the UK was allowed to buy 2 991.2 GT3s.
Ha no, my pants are on fire from spicy food farts, but that's what I was told and given the lack of transparency in the allocation process I wouldn't discount it.I have every confidence my OPC has made more than £20k out of me this year and fair play to them....they have a product I want and customer service second to none.Which reminds me I need to order a set of winter wheels and trees for my Cayenne...,that's another grand or two of profit for them!
AndrewD said:
That's my point, it isn't for me or Germany to define the best customers it is for the OPC. You only take it out of their hands if there is dodgy dealing that damages your brand - actually in which case withdrawing the franchise is anyway an option. As I said a lot of noise on the internet about brown envelopes but it seems to me this is because people are understandably disappointed and no system can stop that when demand massively exceeds supply. Which will always happen for any manufacturer if they make good cars no matter how much capacity they have.
Define best customers........I think you mean the arse lickers that buy stuff they don't want or flip stuff back to their OPC, like I said earlier, it's more if your face fits and the OPC can see you will play their game.You've got every model you've asked for from your OPC, I haven't, now if we both list our porsche history, I will gaurentee I beat you, please try and answer that, without trying to be a smart arse.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Got to say, I can relate to this and I imagine it will not only be me.In some respects, these things are gilded cages and the emotional investing in the allocation process is a complete PITA and is such a time waster - I can’t believe as a relatively intelligent adult, that I am part of this farce !
Need to have a proper word with myself
Edited by RSVP911 on Saturday 11th November 13:08
Shnozz said:
AndrewD said:
As I said a lot of noise on the internet about brown envelopes but it seems to me this is because people are understandably disappointed and no system can stop that when demand massively exceeds supply.
If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck..If it was a murmur, or an isolated complainant, that is one thing. To dismiss "a lot" of noise and conclude its all somehow a fallacy of disappointed customers seems a bit see no evil, hear no evil.
I know what you are getting at, but put yourself in the shoes of the sales person at the OPC. Going to risk your job, possibly career, and forever put yourself in the punter's pocket, for what 10k, 50k? Public opinion turns on a sixpence these days, ask Harvey Weinstein, the casting couch culture is gone. On a more mundane level, you'd be mad to take brown envelopes and tell yourself everybody does it.
Has nobody in the history of selling cars ever taken a back hander, of course they have. But to characterise the allocation process as a murky world of bribes just doesn't make sense.
However, please feel free anybody to post actual proof this is widespread.
ted 191 said:
Define best customers........I think you mean the arse lickers that buy stuff they don't want or flip stuff back to their OPC, like I said earlier, it's more if your face fits and the OPC can see you will play their game.
You've got every model you've asked for from your OPC, I haven't, now if we both list our porsche history, I will gaurentee I beat you, please try and answer that, without trying to be a smart arse.
Chris as I already said it isn't up to me to define best customers and I don't know what use it would be for me to offer my view as I don't run an OPC or decide on allocations. I am just a customer like you. You've got every model you've asked for from your OPC, I haven't, now if we both list our porsche history, I will gaurentee I beat you, please try and answer that, without trying to be a smart arse.
You say "arse licking" and "play their game". Did you do that to secure your GT3 slot? I guess you must have.
Also we know each other, so I know you are some years older than me, I guess you might have owned more Porsches. So what?
RSVP911 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Got to say, I can relate to this and I imagine it will not only be me.In some respects, these things are gilded cages and the emotional investing in the allocation process is a complete PITA and is such a time waster - I can’t believe as a relatively intelligent adult, that I am part of this farce !
Need to have a proper word with myself
Meanwhile, there are people out there who probably covet the part-exchanges more than the buyer covets the newer purchase. You have had (and have) some beautiful cars and its only natural to want 'the next best thing' and for what its worth, I hope you DO get an allocation for a 991.2 GT3 but if you dont, just go out for a drive in that beautiful air-cooled Silver 911 you have (if you still have it!) and everything will feel OK again
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