Would you change your 997.1 gt3 for a 991 gt3 pdk
Discussion
lowndes said:
Let’s start by saying I haven’t got a 997.1GT3 nor a 991.1GT3 so you may very well take the view that basic shortcoming rather disqualifies the remarks that follow. I couldn’t possibly comment 
What I do have is a 997.2 GT3 and a 991.2 GT3 PDK. So perhaps not totally dissimilar to the options you are considering.
I’ve had the 997.2 GT3 CS for three years now and in that time have added around 20k varied miles.; early morning runs, weekends away, track days, Euro trips. Odometer now shows 38k It came with MPSS, a Bosch battery and a Porsche warranty. I have maintained the warranty but to do so had to change to Cup 2 and Moll. It needed a new starter motor which of course was a warranty item. It required new discs and pads but otherwise has only needed routine maintenance.
It’s not the only car I have available and so it has to appeal for seat time against other contenders. Nevertheless, it does pretty well in that regard and never fails to entertain and delight. Out on the open road it is as fast as I would ever need. On the track a better driver would get much more out of it and may wish to change a few settings. Nothing wrong with that but I’m happy enough with it as it is. Offhand I can’t think of another car that combines the same driver engagement, reliability, practicality and desirability in a single package.
I’m only at 1500 miles in the 991.2 so still running in. However, I have done my PEC half day and have some idea of what it is like when unleashed from the 4k rev limit. For an average driver like me it is an order of magnitude faster and more capable than the 7.2. Without trying it was generating 1.4g lateral on the handling circuit, engine redlining 9k and PDK banging through the gears like a rifle crack. The ride is much better than 7.2, the cabin NVH a full step on. I have folding buckets because the 7.2/CGT lightweight fixed back, which to me are the best seat of all, were not available. Even limited to 4k there is noticeably more torque than 997 and on the recent trip round some Welsh hills it had the driveability of a turbo. Some minor niggles like the cheap feeling carpets and the nasty stick on end plates to the rear spoiler, rather than the lovely one piece item on the 997, grate a little. It has also had to have Safety Services disconnected,a new front strut was replaced under warranty.
Conclusion.
In three years time my guess is that the 991.2 will have moved on and the 997.2 will still be competing for seat time.
Lovely right up.Interesting to here from 2 generations of manual gt3,sWhat I do have is a 997.2 GT3 and a 991.2 GT3 PDK. So perhaps not totally dissimilar to the options you are considering.
I’ve had the 997.2 GT3 CS for three years now and in that time have added around 20k varied miles.; early morning runs, weekends away, track days, Euro trips. Odometer now shows 38k It came with MPSS, a Bosch battery and a Porsche warranty. I have maintained the warranty but to do so had to change to Cup 2 and Moll. It needed a new starter motor which of course was a warranty item. It required new discs and pads but otherwise has only needed routine maintenance.
It’s not the only car I have available and so it has to appeal for seat time against other contenders. Nevertheless, it does pretty well in that regard and never fails to entertain and delight. Out on the open road it is as fast as I would ever need. On the track a better driver would get much more out of it and may wish to change a few settings. Nothing wrong with that but I’m happy enough with it as it is. Offhand I can’t think of another car that combines the same driver engagement, reliability, practicality and desirability in a single package.
I’m only at 1500 miles in the 991.2 so still running in. However, I have done my PEC half day and have some idea of what it is like when unleashed from the 4k rev limit. For an average driver like me it is an order of magnitude faster and more capable than the 7.2. Without trying it was generating 1.4g lateral on the handling circuit, engine redlining 9k and PDK banging through the gears like a rifle crack. The ride is much better than 7.2, the cabin NVH a full step on. I have folding buckets because the 7.2/CGT lightweight fixed back, which to me are the best seat of all, were not available. Even limited to 4k there is noticeably more torque than 997 and on the recent trip round some Welsh hills it had the driveability of a turbo. Some minor niggles like the cheap feeling carpets and the nasty stick on end plates to the rear spoiler, rather than the lovely one piece item on the 997, grate a little. It has also had to have Safety Services disconnected,a new front strut was replaced under warranty.
Conclusion.
In three years time my guess is that the 991.2 will have moved on and the 997.2 will still be competing for seat time.
Can i ask why you think the 997 will stay?.
evodarren said:
Lovely right up.Interesting to here from 2 generations of manual gt3,s
Can i ask why you think the 997 will stay?.
I reckon: Can i ask why you think the 997 will stay?.
"Offhand I can’t think of another car that combines the same driver engagement, reliability, practicality and desirability in a single package."
evodarren said:
Lovely right up.Interesting to here from 2 generations of manual gt3,s
Can i ask why you think the 997 will stay?.
If I'm reading it correctly the 991.2 is a PDK . Can i ask why you think the 997 will stay?.
To give a view from a 996.1 GT3 to a 997.1 GT3 to a 991.1 GT3 PDK a 991.2 GT3 Manual ....
1st 991.2 GT3 Manual . Best car I've ever owned .
2nd 996.1 GT3
3rd 997.1 GT3
4th 991.1 GT3 PDK ( hated the box )
SFO said:
I reckon:
"Offhand I can’t think of another car that combines the same driver engagement, reliability, practicality and desirability in a single package."
Not giving it much but distilling it down and getting it done. "Offhand I can’t think of another car that combines the same driver engagement, reliability, practicality and desirability in a single package."
A bit more explanation of my own decision making (may not apply in all cases)
In an ideal world, I would like to have driven a manual 991.2 before making the gearbox choice. However, my spec locked before PEC had a manual car.
As it happens I’m pretty sure I would still have gone PDK. I have a couple of other 6 speed manuals one of which has only minimal assistance. To that extent therefore if I feel the need for a deeply immersive analogue experience the option is always open.
The other issue I have with manual 991.2 is it would appear to have had to compromise a little with the diff and gear ratios, and no doubt the P acronym stability algorithms needed bit of a tweak as well as they can no longer be sure which gear, if any, has been selected.
As for the future, no doubt technology in 992 will make 991 technologies look out of date. 997 however is not as shot through with digital interventions which has allowed it to retain a reasonably analogue and engaging core and with it that hard to define character that separates great from really good.
Although my own string of cars are GT3RS the decision process seems basically the same to me.
One way to think about it is:
(1) What is your normal driving pattern?
-Do you live in a city or in a place with lots of empty roads where you can have fun?
-Do you track frequently?
-Do you use your car a lot in cities?
In my case I live in a city centre, get a weekend drive periodically, do a few track days a year, ( non many) and a rally or two.
(2) Are you likely to access the car's performance as a really experienced track driver?
For me I am not a competitive driver, quick enough and have driven lots of tracks, but its for myself. I do not get into trouble or dawdled around but I would class myself as competent average.
I have a friend who is a very famous driver ( LM24 winner), who drive the 7.1RS on the Nordschleife after it was first released. I asked him what he thought;
He said " J**** Ch***, this is a magnificent car for a good driver to drive at 6/10ths, for an excellent driver to drive at 8/10ths and beyond that you'd better be me"....He was dead serious that the car took no prisoners.
As for the cars I did a writeup in Petrolicious (here), and will not bore you by repeating it.
https://petrolicious.com/articles/i-found-porsche-...
My own call was to get a 991RS but to keep an 997 RS also. The hard decision was whether to sell the 7.1 or the 7.2. The 7.2 was a better car, especially aerodynamically with notable better wet grip. Yet the 7.1 was buy first RS and I simply could not bring myself to part with it. SO I kept it.
In the city the 991RS is incomparably better.
It is also a better track car and has simply astonishing wet grip. It can be driven as a DD as well as any regular 911.The 7.1 with its super heavy clutch and unforgiving suspension is a more involving drive to take out and thrash by yourself, a bit more go-kart like in the steering. It is to me not a better or worse car...just different. I fully appreciate that there are drivers and owners here with more talent who will use their cars in more aggressive ways than I do, so take my comments as being from a mid pack owner, no garage queens, not a driving god
...
The cars I hung onto are below. They are keepers. No 991.2RS, but when the 992 arrives I might just add one last one...
One way to think about it is:
(1) What is your normal driving pattern?
-Do you live in a city or in a place with lots of empty roads where you can have fun?
-Do you track frequently?
-Do you use your car a lot in cities?
In my case I live in a city centre, get a weekend drive periodically, do a few track days a year, ( non many) and a rally or two.
(2) Are you likely to access the car's performance as a really experienced track driver?
For me I am not a competitive driver, quick enough and have driven lots of tracks, but its for myself. I do not get into trouble or dawdled around but I would class myself as competent average.
I have a friend who is a very famous driver ( LM24 winner), who drive the 7.1RS on the Nordschleife after it was first released. I asked him what he thought;
He said " J**** Ch***, this is a magnificent car for a good driver to drive at 6/10ths, for an excellent driver to drive at 8/10ths and beyond that you'd better be me"....He was dead serious that the car took no prisoners.
As for the cars I did a writeup in Petrolicious (here), and will not bore you by repeating it.
https://petrolicious.com/articles/i-found-porsche-...
My own call was to get a 991RS but to keep an 997 RS also. The hard decision was whether to sell the 7.1 or the 7.2. The 7.2 was a better car, especially aerodynamically with notable better wet grip. Yet the 7.1 was buy first RS and I simply could not bring myself to part with it. SO I kept it.
In the city the 991RS is incomparably better.
It is also a better track car and has simply astonishing wet grip. It can be driven as a DD as well as any regular 911.The 7.1 with its super heavy clutch and unforgiving suspension is a more involving drive to take out and thrash by yourself, a bit more go-kart like in the steering. It is to me not a better or worse car...just different. I fully appreciate that there are drivers and owners here with more talent who will use their cars in more aggressive ways than I do, so take my comments as being from a mid pack owner, no garage queens, not a driving god
...The cars I hung onto are below. They are keepers. No 991.2RS, but when the 992 arrives I might just add one last one...
RDMcG said:
Although my own string of cars are GT3RS the decision process seems basically the same to me.
One way to think about it is:
(1) What is your normal driving pattern?
-Do you live in a city or in a place with lots of empty roads where you can have fun?
-Do you track frequently?
-Do you use your car a lot in cities?
In my case I live in a city centre, get a weekend drive periodically, do a few track days a year, ( non many) and a rally or two.
(2) Are you likely to access the car's performance as a really experienced track driver?
For me I am not a competitive driver, quick enough and have driven lots of tracks, but its for myself. I do not get into trouble or dawdled around but I would class myself as competent average.
I have a friend who is a very famous driver ( LM24 winner), who drive the 7.1RS on the Nordschleife after it was first released. I asked him what he thought;
He said " J**** Ch***, this is a magnificent car for a good driver to drive at 6/10ths, for an excellent driver to drive at 8/10ths and beyond that you'd better be me"....He was dead serious that the car took no prisoners.
As for the cars I did a writeup in Petrolicious (here), and will not bore you by repeating it.
https://petrolicious.com/articles/i-found-porsche-...
My own call was to get a 991RS but to keep an 997 RS also. The hard decision was whether to sell the 7.1 or the 7.2. The 7.2 was a better car, especially aerodynamically with notable better wet grip. Yet the 7.1 was buy first RS and I simply could not bring myself to part with it. SO I kept it.
In the city the 991RS is incomparably better.
It is also a better track car and has simply astonishing wet grip. It can be driven as a DD as well as any regular 911.The 7.1 with its super heavy clutch and unforgiving suspension is a more involving drive to take out and thrash by yourself, a bit more go-kart like in the steering. It is to me not a better or worse car...just different. I fully appreciate that there are drivers and owners here with more talent who will use their cars in more aggressive ways than I do, so take my comments as being from a mid pack owner, no garage queens, not a driving god...
The cars I hung onto are below. They are keepers. No 991.2RS, but when the 992 arrives I might just add one last one...
I remember reading that article . Fabulous write up
One way to think about it is:
(1) What is your normal driving pattern?
-Do you live in a city or in a place with lots of empty roads where you can have fun?
-Do you track frequently?
-Do you use your car a lot in cities?
In my case I live in a city centre, get a weekend drive periodically, do a few track days a year, ( non many) and a rally or two.
(2) Are you likely to access the car's performance as a really experienced track driver?
For me I am not a competitive driver, quick enough and have driven lots of tracks, but its for myself. I do not get into trouble or dawdled around but I would class myself as competent average.
I have a friend who is a very famous driver ( LM24 winner), who drive the 7.1RS on the Nordschleife after it was first released. I asked him what he thought;
He said " J**** Ch***, this is a magnificent car for a good driver to drive at 6/10ths, for an excellent driver to drive at 8/10ths and beyond that you'd better be me"....He was dead serious that the car took no prisoners.
As for the cars I did a writeup in Petrolicious (here), and will not bore you by repeating it.
https://petrolicious.com/articles/i-found-porsche-...
My own call was to get a 991RS but to keep an 997 RS also. The hard decision was whether to sell the 7.1 or the 7.2. The 7.2 was a better car, especially aerodynamically with notable better wet grip. Yet the 7.1 was buy first RS and I simply could not bring myself to part with it. SO I kept it.
In the city the 991RS is incomparably better.
It is also a better track car and has simply astonishing wet grip. It can be driven as a DD as well as any regular 911.The 7.1 with its super heavy clutch and unforgiving suspension is a more involving drive to take out and thrash by yourself, a bit more go-kart like in the steering. It is to me not a better or worse car...just different. I fully appreciate that there are drivers and owners here with more talent who will use their cars in more aggressive ways than I do, so take my comments as being from a mid pack owner, no garage queens, not a driving god
...The cars I hung onto are below. They are keepers. No 991.2RS, but when the 992 arrives I might just add one last one...
I remember reading that article . Fabulous write up
Porsche911R said:
evodarren said:
I'm not bored with it, and cannot tune as under warranty. Just wondering what a newer gt3 would be like to own. I guess at 10 years old, I'm into classics lol
So you have paid £7k in warranty, how was that return ?I would be all over, Ohlins, lightweight flywheel, engine mounts, cup diff and short final drive.
Prob a few new bushes after 10years use.
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