When is a 911 not a 911?
Discussion
Porsche have maintained the 911 name for more than 50 years. But does the 911 really still exist? It has evolved/changed so much over the years - with each new iteration chipping away at some of the key characteristics that were I think fundamental to what makes a 911 (small, air-cooled, manual gears, light weight, RWD, naturally aspirated, floor-mounted pedals, 911 handling) that I am not sure it should still be called a 911.
I'm not saying that the 991 isn't a competent car - it just isn't a 911 to me.
As a comparison the 488 is clearly an evolution of the 308 yet bears its own name.
I'm not saying that the 991 isn't a competent car - it just isn't a 911 to me.
As a comparison the 488 is clearly an evolution of the 308 yet bears its own name.
even the RSR is mid engine and is called a 911
people want to own 911's, you say Cayman to them they say poor mans Porsche (even though they drive a 1.2 Corsa)
on here you see people want the 911 not because of what it is just because of the name 911, a Cayman would never work for this type of buyer and that's most people !
people want to own 911's, you say Cayman to them they say poor mans Porsche (even though they drive a 1.2 Corsa)
on here you see people want the 911 not because of what it is just because of the name 911, a Cayman would never work for this type of buyer and that's most people !
A totally different make and model is the VW Golf GTi.
The MK1 is nowhere close to the new MK7.5 but they both share the same name. The new Polo is larger than the original MK1 Golf but that is the evolution of cars due to safety cells and the masses of electronics now fitted in all cars.
The 911 has evolved over the years and is now much bigger and wider, but it also accommodates a much larger engine, advanced gearbox and suspension and a plush luxurious interior. For me the last of the smaller 911’s was the 964 which also had quite a sparse interior.
The MK1 is nowhere close to the new MK7.5 but they both share the same name. The new Polo is larger than the original MK1 Golf but that is the evolution of cars due to safety cells and the masses of electronics now fitted in all cars.
The 911 has evolved over the years and is now much bigger and wider, but it also accommodates a much larger engine, advanced gearbox and suspension and a plush luxurious interior. For me the last of the smaller 911’s was the 964 which also had quite a sparse interior.
Edited by MartinRS2K on Thursday 4th January 16:37
Esceptico said:
Porsche have maintained the 911 name for more than 50 years. But does the 911 really still exist? It has evolved/changed so much over the years - with each new iteration chipping away at some of the key characteristics that were I think fundamental to what makes a 911 (small, air-cooled, manual gears, light weight, RWD, naturally aspirated, floor-mounted pedals, 911 handling) that I am not sure it should still be called a 911.
I'm not saying that the 991 isn't a competent car - it just isn't a 911 to me.
As a comparison the 488 is clearly an evolution of the 308 yet bears its own name.
A new car is immediately identifiable as a 911 when sat next to an original 911 from its shape,it is a 911 .When someone says what do you drive and you say a porsche 911 they know straight away what you are talking about regardless of what generation it is . I'm not saying that the 991 isn't a competent car - it just isn't a 911 to me.
As a comparison the 488 is clearly an evolution of the 308 yet bears its own name.
I understand what you mean but A 991 is the 911 of today not yesterday.
MartinRS2K said:
A totally different make and model is the VW Golf GTi.
The MK1 is nowhere close to the new MK7.5 but they both share the same name. The new Polo is larger than the original MK1 Golf but that is the evolution of cars due to safety cells and the masses of electronics now fitted in all cars.
The 911 has evolved over the years and is now much bigger and wider, but it also accommodates a much larger engine, admvanced gearbox and suspension and a plush luxurious interior. For me the last of the smaller 911’s was the 964 which was also had quite a sparse interior.
last of the real 911's were the SWB cars ;-)The MK1 is nowhere close to the new MK7.5 but they both share the same name. The new Polo is larger than the original MK1 Golf but that is the evolution of cars due to safety cells and the masses of electronics now fitted in all cars.
The 911 has evolved over the years and is now much bigger and wider, but it also accommodates a much larger engine, admvanced gearbox and suspension and a plush luxurious interior. For me the last of the smaller 911’s was the 964 which was also had quite a sparse interior.
that's the issue every one states what the last of an era is
SWB have a great following but those ended in 1968
Air cooled again last of an era ended in 1997
hydraulic steering, ended in 2012
normally asp engines. ended in 2016 (in the main)
Lets not forget PASM, PDK, PTV, e-diffs, RWS all being added year on year.
Porsche911R said:
Lets not forget PASM, PDK, PTV, e-diffs, RWS all being added year on year.
Hence IMHO a manual non pasm 18"wheel 997.2 makes a very good argument for being the last in the purist choice 911. I would have a basalt black with sports seats with low mileage and number of owners in a heartbeat !As for suspension and brakes these can be upgraded as components wear out!
To me, a 911 is a rear engined, 2+2 tear drop shaped sports car made by Porsche.
Yes they occasionally make a mid engined race car, sometimes a 2 seater limited edition lightweight version, sometimes they’re n/a, sometimes turbo and in the future they’re going to be electric, hybrid or hydrogen (or whatever) but as long as it keeps that silhouette, that seating arrangement and is a Porsche I think that’s it.
Size, engine, wheelbase, steering, suspension, transmission-they can all change but a 911 is always a 911 (unless it’s a 912, but that’s another argument!).
Yes they occasionally make a mid engined race car, sometimes a 2 seater limited edition lightweight version, sometimes they’re n/a, sometimes turbo and in the future they’re going to be electric, hybrid or hydrogen (or whatever) but as long as it keeps that silhouette, that seating arrangement and is a Porsche I think that’s it.
Size, engine, wheelbase, steering, suspension, transmission-they can all change but a 911 is always a 911 (unless it’s a 912, but that’s another argument!).
GT4P said:
Hence IMHO a manual non pasm 18"wheel 997.2 makes a very good argument for being the last in the purist choice 911. I would have a basalt black with sports seats with low mileage and number of owners in a heartbeat !
As for suspension and brakes these can be upgraded as components wear out!
why do you think I have owned 2 Cayman R's :-) forget 911's the R is better value and has better steering and don't have the 10" wheel arch gap !As for suspension and brakes these can be upgraded as components wear out!
Porsche911R said:
why do you think I have owned 2 Cayman R's :-) forget 911's the R is better value and has better steering and don't have the 10" wheel arch gap !
Now you know I will argue that a 987.2S is better value than a CR apart from when they were new we have been down this road many times before and I respect your opinion but this is a discussion on 911being a 911
Imo the 911 ended with the 993 as that car still had basically the same shape and size as the original. And air cooled of course. Even the dashboard was virtually identical.
Everything changed with the 996. Having said all of that I still think the soul of the 911 remains in the more modern cars and fully understand why it's still called a 911
Everything changed with the 996. Having said all of that I still think the soul of the 911 remains in the more modern cars and fully understand why it's still called a 911
Esceptico said:
Porsche have maintained the 911 name for more than 50 years. But does the 911 really still exist? It has evolved/changed so much over the years - with each new iteration chipping away at some of the key characteristics that were I think fundamental to what makes a 911 (small, air-cooled, manual gears, light weight, RWD, naturally aspirated, floor-mounted pedals, 911 handling) that I am not sure it should still be called a 911.
I'm not saying that the 991 isn't a competent car - it just isn't a 911 to me.
As a comparison the 488 is clearly an evolution of the 308 yet bears its own name.
The comparison with 308/488 is an interesting one. Ferrari use a different model number with each generation because it's related to engine size and number of cylinders. I also think the styling changes with each gen are even more dramatic so they really are a different model... I'm not saying that the 991 isn't a competent car - it just isn't a 911 to me.
As a comparison the 488 is clearly an evolution of the 308 yet bears its own name.
browngt3 said:
Imo the 911 ended with the 993 as that car still had basically the same shape and size as the original. And air cooled of course. Even the dashboard was virtually identical.
Everything changed with the 996. Having said all of that I still think the soul of the 911 remains in the more modern cars and fully understand why it's still called a 911
And car guys like ourselves dont really call them 911. We call them 996 or 993. Anyway I thought the actually name is Carrera.Everything changed with the 996. Having said all of that I still think the soul of the 911 remains in the more modern cars and fully understand why it's still called a 911
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