When is a 911 not a 911?
Discussion
LaurasOtherHalf said:
To me, a 911 is a rear engined, 2+2 tear drop shaped sports car made by Porsche.
Yes they occasionally make a mid engined race car, sometimes a 2 seater limited edition lightweight version, sometimes they’re n/a, sometimes turbo and in the future they’re going to be electric, hybrid or hydrogen (or whatever) but as long as it keeps that silhouette, that seating arrangement and is a Porsche I think that’s it.
Size, engine, wheelbase, steering, suspension, transmission-they can all change but a 911 is always a 911 (unless it’s a 912, but that’s another argument!).
YupYes they occasionally make a mid engined race car, sometimes a 2 seater limited edition lightweight version, sometimes they’re n/a, sometimes turbo and in the future they’re going to be electric, hybrid or hydrogen (or whatever) but as long as it keeps that silhouette, that seating arrangement and is a Porsche I think that’s it.
Size, engine, wheelbase, steering, suspension, transmission-they can all change but a 911 is always a 911 (unless it’s a 912, but that’s another argument!).
Porsche are very clearly signed up to progressive evolution. which = minor changes progressively - and does not = no change.
flat six is a big deal for some folks (I'm one of those) - and losing 2 cylinders feels wrong to me.
But that's evolution - I've drive a 718 Boxster S recently and its a fabulously accomplished car, but I still want the feel of my 991.1
People with 993's probably feel just the same about their 993's and think a 991 is unacceptable.
(and remember the 912 anyone? it's 4 cylinder, and it's still a porsche and it's still a valued classic)
Things change, and while the 'red line' for me is less than 6 cylinders, it'll be water cooling, or length or width or weight or interior or gearbox or such for others.
Lets face it, it's all f***ed when we go electric, so enjoy what you've got while it lasts - those who follow us won't have any of these opportunities. I've got my 991.1 in a spec that's just about spot on, and it's a keeper until they stop selling petrol.
Yellow491 said:
A 911 stopped being a 911 when the factory stopped calling it a 911 model,a 912 is not a 911 nor is a carrera
Why do people kid themselves they have a 911,the last 911 was in 1989 I thought.Is it because the factory and new owners still want and need to relate to the real deal.;)
Why do people kid themselves they have a 911,the last 911 was in 1989 I thought.Is it because the factory and new owners still want and need to relate to the real deal.;)
LordHaveMurci said:
Yellow491 said:
A 911 stopped being a 911 when the factory stopped calling it a 911 model,a 912 is not a 911 nor is a carrera
Why do people kid themselves they have a 911,the last 911 was in 1989 I thought.Is it because the factory and new owners still want and need to relate to the real deal.;)
Why do people kid themselves they have a 911,the last 911 was in 1989 I thought.Is it because the factory and new owners still want and need to relate to the real deal.;)
My god this is like stepping into the Jaguar forum and hearing the old fossils say the the XJ isn’t an XJ for various rediculous reasons. The most hilarious I heard was that the series 2 was the last XJ as it’s the last one to have the eye of William Lyons cast over it. Lets apply that logic.... which 911 was the last one to have Ferdinand involvement? 
The simple answer is, if the manufacturer calls it a 911 it’s a 911. Any talk of “the last one was the 964” or whatever just makes you sound like the last person people would want to stand next to at a drinks party.
The simple answer is, if the manufacturer calls it a 911 it’s a 911. Any talk of “the last one was the 964” or whatever just makes you sound like the last person people would want to stand next to at a drinks party. Yellow491 said:
A 911 stopped being a 911 when the factory stopped calling it a 911 model,a 912 is not a 911 nor is a carrera
Why do people kid themselves they have a 911,the last 911 was in 1989 I thought.Is it because the factory and new owners still want and need to relate to the real deal.;)
Yes, as I understand it, the official '911' nomenclature ended with the 3.2 Carrera in 1989. Why do people kid themselves they have a 911,the last 911 was in 1989 I thought.Is it because the factory and new owners still want and need to relate to the real deal.;)
However, there was still some inter-changeability with the 964 and 993 models, so most people would regard the 'air-cooled' models from 1963 up to 1997 as the true '911s'.
I doubt if the water-cooled models from 996, 997, 991.... bear any parts relationship to the earlier cars. However, the '911' moniker is a great marketing tool and the public and Porsche have applied it to the subsequent models.
Lots of people who drive a contemporary '911' like to feel they are associated with a long lineage, but the truth is many would have never actually bought an air-cooled 911, back in the day. They weren't that well liked or understood, and were substantially outsold by BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes, even the 928s and 944s, which offered more comforts and conveniences.
In truth, if your Porsche doesn't have an air-cooled engine in the back - it's not a 911.
Koln-RS said:
I doubt if the water-cooled models from 996, 997, 991.... bear any parts relationship to the earlier cars. However, the '911' moniker is a great marketing tool and the public and Porsche have applied it to the subsequent models.
In truth, if your Porsche doesn't have an air-cooled engine in the back - it's not a 911.
996/7 GT and turbo models had crankcases from the air cooled era in fact on the earlier 996s they still had the 964 part number stamped on them.In truth, if your Porsche doesn't have an air-cooled engine in the back - it's not a 911.
craigjm said:
My god this is like stepping into the Jaguar forum and hearing the old fossils say the the XJ isn’t an XJ for various rediculous reasons. The most hilarious I heard was that the series 2 was the last XJ as it’s the last one to have the eye of William Lyons cast over it. Lets apply that logic.... which 911 was the last one to have Ferdinand involvement? The simple answer is, if the manufacturer calls it a 911 it’s a 911. Any talk of “the last one was the 964” or whatever just makes you sound like the last person people would want to stand next to at a drinks party.
So true. This is just the Illuminati out in force and it's very, very tedious. The simple answer is, if the manufacturer calls it a 911 it’s a 911. Any talk of “the last one was the 964” or whatever just makes you sound like the last person people would want to stand next to at a drinks party. EGTE said:
craigjm said:
My god this is like stepping into the Jaguar forum and hearing the old fossils say the the XJ isn’t an XJ for various rediculous reasons. The most hilarious I heard was that the series 2 was the last XJ as it’s the last one to have the eye of William Lyons cast over it. Lets apply that logic.... which 911 was the last one to have Ferdinand involvement? The simple answer is, if the manufacturer calls it a 911 it’s a 911. Any talk of “the last one was the 964” or whatever just makes you sound like the last person people would want to stand next to at a drinks party.
So true. This is just the Illuminati out in force and it's very, very tedious. The simple answer is, if the manufacturer calls it a 911 it’s a 911. Any talk of “the last one was the 964” or whatever just makes you sound like the last person people would want to stand next to at a drinks party. 
Esceptico said:
Porsche have maintained the 911 name for more than 50 years. But does the 911 really still exist? It has evolved/changed so much over the years - with each new iteration chipping away at some of the key characteristics that were I think fundamental to what makes a 911 (small, air-cooled, manual gears, light weight, RWD, naturally aspirated, floor-mounted pedals, 911 handling) that I am not sure it should still be called a 911.
I'm not saying that the 991 isn't a competent car - it just isn't a 911 to me.
As a comparison the 488 is clearly an evolution of the 308 yet bears its own name.
The description of what a 911 means to you also happens to describe a vw beetle.I'm not saying that the 991 isn't a competent car - it just isn't a 911 to me.
As a comparison the 488 is clearly an evolution of the 308 yet bears its own name.
Small,lightweight,air cooled,floor mounted pedals ,rwd etc.
Koln-RS said:
In truth, if your Porsche doesn't have an air-cooled engine in the back - it's not a 911.
With that logic if a car has got more than three wheels as per Mr Benz’s first practical vehicle, that every subsequent four wheeled contraption should not be called a car. To most same people a 911 is a rear engined 2+2 and is clearly recognisable as suchGassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff